How to turn plastic waste into diesel fuel cheaply

[imakebiodiesel]

All of Beyond biodiesel suggestions for fill material are good but I would be careful of copper. Oil derived from plastic will contain a proportion of alkenes which may react with the copper. These will oxidize quickly and turn dark over a couple of days.

[jonathan]

reflux

ok thanks for those that help me l suggesting who make this system and work post pictures and result its better for help and more poeple save the planet

[Marso Green]

All of Beyond biodiesel suggestions for fill material are good but I would be careful of copper. Oil derived from plastic will contain a proportion of alkenes which may react with the copper. These will oxidize quickly and turn dark over a couple of days.

And what about Aluminum? Any ill effects from using Aluminum where there is no risk of reaching Aluminum melting temperatures?
thanks
Marso Green

[imakebiodiesel]

Im not aware of any problems with aluminium.

[Beyond Biodiesel]

And what about Aluminum? Any ill effects from using Aluminum where there is no risk of reaching Aluminum melting temperatures?
thanks
Marso Green

The melting point of aluminum is 933.47 K, 660.32 °C, 1220.58 °F, so it is close to the working temperature of the retort. Might be best to avoid it in the retort.

I am distilling WMO for right now, which occurs at a lower temp, so it is not an issue for m retort at this time, until I start working on cracking plastics.

Copper oxidation is an issue at higher temps, but it should work fine as a condenser and packing at temps of 300F (150c) and below.

[Marso Green]

Ive had an exciting day today. I finished making up a small 20 litre still and poured 10 litres of my" crude" into it. This" crude" is the product from the last 10 small batches I have made with my small reactor. The catalyst column was filled with 200gms of my latest catalyst and was used for all ten batches. I have only one condenser on my small reactor so all of the fuel is mixed up. I was keen to discover exactly what my fuel was made of.
I slowly brought the still up in temperature until the still head was at 155 degrees C and then I held it there for an hour untill the liquid stopped flowing from the condenser. The collection jar had 246 ml of liquid.
So the result is my fuel is
25% light fraction BP<155C (petrol/gasoline)
75% middle fraction BP 155-265C ( kerosene)
0% heavy fraction BP.>260 ( diesel)
This is great news for me as my aim is to produce enough fuel to heat my home in winter and run a small petrol car such as a VW polo, all from waste plastic.
Im about half way through building my full size reactor which will process about 75kg at a time.
Since I do in the future want to make a business making and selling catalysts I cant tell you exactly whats in my catalyst except that its not clay but a combination of four different minerals.

Just to get back on the subject of catalyst. have consumption rates been figured out, and regeneration process/method defined? how about ball park pricing?

Thanks in advance
Marso Green

[Marso Green]

flange system

While it is good to look at what "Jetiji" posted, I do not think we need to exactly duplicate his process without rethinking every stage of it. For instance his flange and seal system is a bust.

.

To what extent has this been verified? Did I miss a discussion on ideal flange system where the tongue and groove method was concluded to be ineffective? if so, is the Conflat the proper alternative?

Thanks in advance
Marso Green

[Marso Green]

Residue

Too many questions tonight, I know.

I was wondering if anyone has pics of leftover residue in the retort and description of how hard it was to remove, along with info on feedstock used, etc. I think it would serve a good education to know what to expect

Thanks in advance
Marso Green

[imakebiodiesel]

Yes thats a lot of questions but Ill have a go at answering them roughly in order.
catalyst/feedstock ratio. Currently 1kg of my catalyst mixture will process 85 kg of feedstock (roughly 90 PE, 10% PP and PS) into 95 litres of fuel. 20 litres of that fuel is held over to power my reactor so the net yield is 75 litres, 50 litres of kerosene and 25 litres of petrol.
1kg of my catalyst may be able to process more than 85kg but at the moment thats the size of my new retort.
My catalyst cannot be regenerated.
I have not calculated a retail price yet for the catalyst but would estimate that it may cost about 15cents per litre of fuel produced.
The conflat flange is a one time only use flange so is not suitable for our purposes.
Although I dont use it myself, many people are using Jetyjs's flange with no problems. It requires good machining but if made properly works well and safely.
The amount of residue depends on how far you want to proceed with processing. You can save time and energy by stopping the process early but you will be left with a residue that resembles heavy black grease. If you take the process all the way you will be left with about 5 grams of black dust per kg of feedstock.
I have been talking to a businessman who recycles plastic and who is interested in my process. He made the comment that at present in Europe the ability to reduce 1 kg of mixed waste plastic to 5 grams of char is worth about 26 cents in landfill fees but over the next 10 years that cost is set to quadruple.
polydiesel

[Beyond Biodiesel]

To what extent has this been verified? Did I miss a discussion on ideal flange system where the tongue and groove method was concluded to be ineffective? if so, is the Conflat the proper alternative?

Thanks in advance
Marso Green

The conflat flange is a one time only use flange so is not suitable for our purposes.
Although I dont use it myself, many people are using Jetyjs's flange with no problems. It requires good machining but if made properly works well and safely.

I have used conflat flanges for decades. They are NOT a "one time only use flange." So, I am not sure where this came from. It is the seal that is one time use, and all seals should be 1 time use, or otherwise you increase the possibility of a leak, and in a hydrocarbon cracking unit, you cannot afford any leaks.

My point was, there are well developed flange systems in place already, such as the Conflat Flange, so why reinvent the wheel? Further, Industrial Plumbing suppliers keep flanges and their seals in stock at all times, so you can just go to one of these suppliers and purchase a flange and seal. So, why pay a machinist to make one for you, when you can most probably purchase one for less than paying the machinist to make you one?

Upon rethink the flange system for my retort, I am looking toward a standard industrial flange and purchasing off-the shelf Spiral Wound Graphite Gaskets for that flange.

Spiral Wound Graphite Gaskets. They are good to Temperature:1000°F(540°C) pH:0-14
Pressure:600 PSI (41 bar)

Jetiji posted a negative comment on the graphite seal, which I have tried to understand. I believe he was purchasing graphite cord and trying to turn that into a seal for his flange, which would not work. However, the off-the shelf graphite seals are intended to be used for precisely the purposes that we are all here involved in.

Additionally, I have recently found Aflas (Tetrafluoroethylene Propylene, FEPM) seals. They are good in the range of 25°F to 450°F (–4°C to 232°C), which is within the range of our goals. Since I have built a retort based upon an aluminum pressure cooker, which uses an elastomeric flat seal system, then I am going to try one of these seals to see how well it does for distilling WMO, which is what I am working with at this time.

[jonathan]

fuel types

just for ask is there another fuels that can be generated with diferent bioling point tempretures like white spirit and other spirits?

[imakebiodiesel]

We need to be careful about specifying suitable seals. A PTFE or similar seal may be ok for oil distillation but at the temps needed for[plastic cracking 400C they are not only useless but they break down into hydrofluoric acid, one of the nastiest chemicals around.
I accept that it is the seals that are one use only on a conflat flange. My flange opening on my new reactor is 20 inches in diameter and if I could get conflat flanges and seals that size they would be prohibitively expensive.
Asad could tell us more about the different light fractions. He as made white spirit commercially.

[Beyond Biodiesel]

just for ask is there another fuels that can be generated with diferent bioling point tempretures like white spirit and other spirits?

The cracking of plastics, and other hydrocarbons leads to a range of fractions from motor oil to methane gas. One just needs to adapt a refluxing trap for the fraction one wants to collect. White spirits would need at least a 25C water cooled trap. Lighter fractions might need ice. And, gas jars are needed for collecting lighter fractions.

We need to be careful about specifying suitable seals. A PTFE or similar seal may be ok for oil distillation but at the temps needed for[plastic cracking 400C they are not only useless but they break down into hydrofluoric acid, one of the nastiest chemicals around.

The amount of hydrofluoric acid produced in the burning of a PTFE seal is going to be negligible, especially in a well-vented cracking system, as everyone should make sure of.

I accept that it is the seals that are one use only on a conflat flange. My flange opening on my new reactor is 20 inches in diameter and if I could get conflat flanges and seals that size they would be prohibitively expensive.

Obsessing over the expensive conflat flange is not going to move this discussion forward. I have already stated that there are off-the-shelf flanges available from Industrial plumbing suppliers, which are cheaper than conflat flanges. So, why reinvent the wheel, when you can buy a flange that will be safe to operate at the temperatures required for the pyrolysis of plastics? Reinvent the wheel could only lead to disastrous results in the pyrolysis of plastics.

Even if, it is cheaper to hire a machinist to make your flanges for you, then you would be better off making that flange identical to the common off-the-shelf flanges available from Industrial plumbing suppliers, because that way, you can purchase cheap, off-the-shelf flanges seals from Industrial plumbing suppliers.

Stainless Steel Flanges Class 150 Threaded

Anyone looking into a seal for a heated process should look into the characteristics of the seal. Here is a list of the temperature behavior of a list of common seals. The refluxing traps for the various fractions will need to have seals on them, and the temperature of those traps is going to be well within the range of the following common off-the-shelf seals.

Nitrile (Buna-N, NBR)
–30°F to 250°F (–34°C to 121°C)
EPDM (Ethylene Propylene, EPM)
–70°F to 300°F (–57°C to 149°C)
Neoprene (Chloroprene, CR)
–35°F to 225°F (–37°C to 107°C)
Silicone (VMQ)
–65°F to 450°F (–54°C to 232°C)
Viton (Fluorocarbon, FKM)
–15°F to 400°F (–26°C to 205°C)
Polyurethane (AU, EU)
–40°F to 180°F (–40°C to 82°C)
Fluorosilicone (FVMQ)
–100°F to 350°F (–73°C to 177°C)
Aflas (Tetrafluoroethylene Propylene, FEPM)
25°F to 450°F (–4°C to 232°C)
Kalrez (Perfluoroelastomer, FFKM)
–15°F to 600°F (–26°C to 316°C)

[Beyond Biodiesel]

Here is a cheap, off-the-shelf flanges seal available from Industrial plumbing suppliers.

[imakebiodiesel]

None of the seal materials listed above are suitable for plastic cracking which needs to tolerate temps a little above 400C. So far I have used three successful sealing methods for use above 400C.
Up to 2" BSP ( NPT in the US) iron threaded pipe male to female with Evode HT30 high temp silicone mastic. Evode specify a max of 350C but it works well for a single use at 420C.
Hand cut non asbestos washer ,rated above 400C, up to 20" diameter on a flat flange dusted with talc or graphite powder to prevent sticking.
Annealed copper or bronze washer up to 20" diameter on a flat flange.
Conflat flanges may be available in your local plumbing supplier but they are not here in Ireland. I doubt that they are easily available in Latvia, Pakistan Mexico, Nicuragua, Africa and many other countries where our members live so we need to look at safe practical alternatives.