How to turn plastic waste into diesel fuel cheaply

[Heartburn]

Testing the fuel

Water content test. <<snip>>

Specific gravity.<<snip>>

Flash point test.<<snip>>

First off for the great info.

I had read your posts on these 3 tests before and there simple enough to do.

Acid number. PH strips and PH meters only work in aqueous solutions. Hydrocarbons will give a faulty reading. To measure the acidity of a fuel it is necessary to perform a simple titration. You will need a small amount of isopropyl alcohol with a pinch of tumeric dissolved in it as an indicator and a some solution of potassium hydroxide dissolved in distilled water. Exactly one gram in exactly one litre.
Half fill a small shot glass with the indicator and using a syringe add exactly 1ml of your fuel. Stir with a plastic stick, an old pen will do. Now fill another clean syringe with the potassium hydroxide solution and add it drop by drop stirring all the time. Stop when the yellow colour turns red. note the number of ml you have used. this is the acid number. A result of more than 1.5 would be of concern. If the fuel is acidic it may be contaminated by chlorine or florine or sulphurous compounds.

You mean turmeric, the plant ? Hummm... not sure where to find that here. since you state "a pinch" I assume just enough to get a noticeable yellow color to the alcohol ? Wouldn't stirring with plastic risk falsifying the results ? a glass stir stick would be better ? I guess we want the fuel to be as close to ph7 as possible but what would be a reasonable limit ? I also look into getting a more precise ph test for fuel at a reasonable price if need be.

Copper strip test. Bring a small pan of fuel up to 100C. Hang a strip of polished copper on the rim of the pan so that a part of it is submerged in the fuel. Maintain the temp for 3 hours. Remove the strip and compare the discolouration with a strip tested in normal diesel. Greater discolouration indicated more contamination. Different colours of corrosion indicated different types of contamination.

Interesting, this test would give us a general idea of the degree of contamination, but nothing else. Should I but a lid on the pan or leave it open ?

I'll run all of these tests on fresh samples of diesel from different retailers in my area to make a baseline for me to work with.

Water, gravity and flash point are relatively easy to adjust. Even ph can be dropped by mixing with diesel from the pumps if it is not to much off and probably a simple way to lower the acidity. But what if the fuel is all good in these 4 tests but the copper strip test is way off, Want to do white the fuel ? How polluant will it be to burn in a furnace ? would re-prosseing it into gasoline clean it up ?

Lastly, I know the water and gravity test are also good for gasoline. I'll need to freeze the gasoline to do the flash point test. But the ph and specially the copper strip test worry me a bit more.

[jonathan]

plastic waste

hello l reed on the websites that they put nitrogen in retort l think to remove oxygen from retort, so is there another system to remove oxygen like vacuum?if yes how could be made?

[Beyond Biodiesel]

I agree Even with an ice trap you have butane, propane and such but if your craking just right you would not have much.

the simplest way to use the HCL is to supplement the burner with hydrogen.

No need to say this is highly explosive gas so much care is needed and a check valve close to the burner and a screen is a good idea to reduce risk of accident.

Anyway, by adding aluminum to your bubbler the HCl will react with it and release hydrogen. This is important, if you put aluminum is hydrochloric acid, it is slow to start, but reacts violently. So make sure you have fresh cut aluminum in there to give the reaction a clean start point. As the HCL is diluted in the water it will slowly react and keep the reaction low. As for the water input, you only need to keep the level high enough to keep the gasses bubbling.

If you just want to reduce the water waist you can add baking soda to the bubbler (NaHCO3). It will neutralize the HCL and release CO2

If you are going to use your fuel in a vehicle, especially a modern common rail diesel, then you would be well advised to test each batch of fuel before you put it into your tank. A replacement injection pump can cost the same as a years fuel so its not wise to take risks. There are several tests that you can carry out with only minimal equipment.

Water content test.
To measure water content accurately in fuel you will need to assemble a Carbide manometer. About 30 euro will cover the parts. I invented this device about 4 years ago and Im pleased to say that it has become the standard test used by biodiesel makers all over the world. See the video below to see how it works.
carbide manometer video.wmv - YouTube

Specific gravity.
Low sulphur diesel has a specific gravity of 0.845. Pyrolysis diesel is lighter because of the lack of aromatics but should still measure above 0.800. A lower figure would indicate a greater than normal light fraction. Too much light fraction can cause damage to injectors by pre-ignition and also lack of lubrication leading to excessive wear in the injection system.
To test specific gravity simple accurately weigh ( in grams) exactly one litre of the fuel and divide by 1000.

Flash point test.
Half fill a tin can with fuel. Measure the temp with a thermometer. Pass a blow torch flame quickly over the top of the can. If the fuel does not ignite heat the fuel up by 10 degrees with the blow torch and repeat the flame test. Continue until the fuel ignites. To put the flame out place a plate on top of the can. Diesel should not ignite until it is in the 80 - 90C range. A lower flash point will indicate too much light fraction.

Acid number. PH strips and PH meters only work in aqueous solutions. Hydrocarbons will give a faulty reading. To measure the acidity of a fuel it is necessary to perform a simple titration. You will need a small amount of isopropyl alcohol with a pinch of tumeric dissolved in it as an indicator and a some solution of potassium hydroxide dissolved in distilled water. Exactly one gram in exactly one litre.
Half fill a small shot glass with the indicator and using a syringe add exactly 1ml of your fuel. Stir with a plastic stick, an old pen will do. Now fill another clean syringe with the potassium hydroxide solution and add it drop by drop stirring all the time. Stop when the yellow colour turns red. note the number of ml you have used. this is the acid number. A result of more than 1.5 would be of concern. If the fuel is acidic it may be contaminated by chlorine or florine or sulphurous compounds.

Copper strip test. Bring a small pan of fuel up to 100C. Hang a strip of polished copper on the rim of the pan so that a part of it is submerged in the fuel. Maintain the temp for 3 hours. Remove the strip and compare the discolouration with a strip tested in normal diesel. Greater discolouration indicated more contamination. Different colours of corrosion indicated different types of contamination.

Thanks to both Heartburn and imakebiodiesel for the posting of useful information.

Can we start a list of plastics and their suitability?

ABS - ?
Perspex - ?
Polycarbonate - ?
Polyester - NO
PET - NO (Oxygen)
PVC - CHLORINE (Dioxins)
Polyethylene - OK but Waxy
Polypropylene - Excellent
Polystyrene - Excellent

waterboost you can find that information easily at this link. Toxic by-products of pyrolysis

[imakebiodiesel]

Heartburn, the tumeric I was referring to is the yellow spice used in curries and Indian and asian food. Here we can buy it in any supermarket,
I leave the pan with a loose fitting lid to accelerate the reaction when doing the copper strip test, other wise too much fuel evaporates. This test is good for any hydrocarbon fuel.
An acid number of 0 is equivalent to a ph number of 7 so an acid number of 1 or 1.5 is very slightly acid. Ph1 would be a very high acid number, as high as 100 I believe. Ive never tested anything that acidic, the worst fuel Ive ever tested was 14.
I have down loaded a copy of the ASTM copper strip corrosion standards card that ASTM kindly supply at a mere cost of 750 dollars. The colours wont be totally accurate but it will give you an idea of what you are looking for. Ill include it in my next post.

[imakebiodiesel]

here it is..I hope.


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[imakebiodiesel]

If a fuel shows a result on the copper strip test it is also likely to show a highish acid number. A bluish result is likely to be chlorine/HCL and a greenish result is likely to be Sulphur/ sulphuric or sulphamic acid. Either way acidic fuel should not be used in a vehicle engine especially where aluminium parts are involved. Better to use it as heating fuel. It may shorten the life of the spray nozzle in the burner but they only cost about 10 euro and should be changed every year anyway.

[Heartburn]

If a fuel shows a result on the copper strip test it is also likely to show a highish acid number. A bluish result is likely to be chlorine/HCL and a greenish result is likely to be Sulphur/ sulphuric or sulphamic acid. Either way acidic fuel should not be used in a vehicle engine especially where aluminium parts are involved. Better to use it as heating fuel. It may shorten the life of the spray nozzle in the burner but they only cost about 10 euro and should be changed every year anyway.

Thank you! that clarifies things a lot. I assume that from 1a to 2b maybe even 2c would be fine to use in an engine ?

I found a study done in the 80 that suggest that HCL could be extracted from the mix by having ashes and copper as a catalyst in the system therefore reducing the chlorine in the fuel. Not sure exactly where it would be best as the study was about burning of waist that and a high level of PVC. It showed that HCL was most concentrated where ashes and copper where. If you find HCL in the diesel, I would assume it can react at high temperature. Maybe the simplest solution would be to add aluminum the the fuel condenser or fuel storage. Remove the aluminum chloride at the bottom and the released hydrogen could help stabilize the fuel at the same time.

You can greatly reduce your water content by starting to process under vacuum. Not as effective as under extreme pressure, but a hell of a lot simpler and safer. Running the hole process under vacuum would be more effective, but a failure in a seal or a crack in the system and you can have an explosion.

I'll have to research how to reduce the sulfuric acids. I know there used to be sulfur in diesel in the past as a lubricant but not sure in what form.

I better stop know before I start babbling

[Heartburn]

I found this process that is used in the refineries already. So I don't think a high level of sulfurs should be an issue in our situation as we are not processing crude.

[mjohnson1]

imakebiodiesel,

Thanks a ton for that information. That will surely come in handy and serves as a way to accurately gauge the quality of the fuel.

[Beyond Biodiesel]

Thank you! that clarifies things a lot. I assume that from 1a to 2b maybe even 2c would be fine to use in an engine ?

I found a study done in the 80 that suggest that HCL could be extracted from the mix by having ashes and copper as a catalyst in the system therefore reducing the chlorine in the fuel. Not sure exactly where it would be best as the study was about burning of waist that and a high level of PVC. It showed that HCL was most concentrated where ashes and copper where. If you find HCL in the diesel, I would assume it can react at high temperature. Maybe the simplest solution would be to add aluminum the the fuel condenser or fuel storage. Remove the aluminum chloride at the bottom and the released hydrogen could help stabilize the fuel at the same time.

You can greatly reduce your water content by starting to process under vacuum. Not as effective as under extreme pressure, but a hell of a lot simpler and safer. Running the hole process under vacuum would be more effective, but a failure in a seal or a crack in the system and you can have an explosion.

I'll have to research how to reduce the sulfuric acids. I know there used to be sulfur in diesel in the past as a lubricant but not sure in what form.

I better stop know before I start babbling

Thanks to both imakebiodiesel and Heartburn for posting your interesting research and results. I have been distilling WMO under vacuum all along since April of last year. And, I have had aluminum and copper shreds as refluxing medium, vacuum vessels and tubing connecting them all along. I have noticed that some of my distillate has come out green, presumably from copper chloride, so maybe it is a good thing to use copper and aluminum components in pyrolysis?

Here is a link to more equipment useful for characterizing your distillate. I have posted it here before, but it is now burried under a mountain of posts. I also added imakebiodiesel's recent contributions.

[Marso Green]

I have noticed that some of my distillate has come out green, presumably from copper chloride, so maybe it is a good thing to use copper and aluminum components in pyrolysis?
.

I have to say I' am now completely confused on the topic of using Copper, specifically Copper Nickel heat exchanger for tire and plastics pyrolysis. This thread strongly warned against using Cu or CuNi 90/10 or 70/30, while others have reported (not in this thread) that CuNi is useful as a catalyst...and now we're hearing that copper may not be as bad as we previously believed. Is there a way to a definitive answer? I made an investment in CuNi heat exchangers and I'm trying to decide on using them versus selling them at a fraction of what I invested, so hopefully the answer will prevent a major loss

Thank You

[Marso Green]

I found this process that is used in the refineries already. So I don't think a high level of sulfurs should be an issue in our situation as we are not processing crude.

I believe that tires/rubber are very high in Sulfur, but are we sure about other plastics or WMO not containing high levels of sulfur? I suppose a lab test of the resulting distillate will provide the definitive answer

[Beyond Biodiesel]

I have to say I' am now completely confused on the topic of using Copper, specifically Copper Nickel heat exchanger for tire and plastics pyrolysis. This thread strongly warned against using Cu or CuNi 90/10 or 70/30, while others have reported (not in this thread) that CuNi is useful as a catalyst...and now we're hearing that copper may not be as bad as we previously believed. Is there a way to a definitive answer? I made an investment in CuNi heat exchangers and I'm trying to decide on using them versus selling them at a fraction of what I invested, so hopefully the answer will prevent a major loss

Thank You

I have been using copper and brass plumbing fittings, and aluminum containers, throughout my pyrolysis experiments, and no explosive reactions took place, so using them does not seem to be dangerous, but I also know from experience cracking TCE that copper tubing and fittings are not going to mitigate all of the HCL liberated when cracking a chlorinated hydrocarbon.

I was wondering if anyone processed "dirty" plastics. Basically strait from the garbage bin to the retort without cleaning.

How about WMO contaminated with antifreeze ?

I think for health and safety reasons people are going to want to avoid processing chlorinated hydrocarbon, such as: PVC; and cyanide-based hydrocarbons, such as ABS; and fluorinated hydrocarbons, such as PTFEs. However, those who are cracking plastics are no doubt going to have some cross contamination, so I believe it is wise to make sure your pyrolysis unit is capable of handling and mitigating small amounts of: HCL, H2S, and HCN.

I have been distilling WMO, and fund it is commonly contaminated with antifreeze, which is not a problem. In fact I have settled out about 10 gallons of antifreeze and plan to distill it to recycle it.

The big problem with distilling WMO is that it is very commonly contaminated with Brakleen, which is TCE, which is a chlorinated hydrocarbon, which will crack and and release copious amounts of HCL. So, I recommend getting rid of any WMO that comes your way that is contaminated with significant quantities of Brakleen/TCE.

[Bilgee]

Help

hello everyone?
I'm about to start a small scale waste tire to fuel oil project. The raw material is waste tire at the beginning, but I would like to convert waste plastic too. Can a pyrolysis plant, which converts waste tire, be able to convert plastic as well? What would happen if I mix the two raw materials at the same time?

Thank you.

[Marso Green]

I have been using copper and brass plumbing fittings, and aluminum containers, throughout my pyrolysis experiments, and no explosive reactions took place, so using them does not seem to be dangerous, but I also know from experience cracking TCE that copper tubing and fittings are not going to mitigate all of the HCL liberated when cracking a chlorinated hydrocarbon.

.

Thanks BBD. My question was not related to pyrolyzing chlorinated hydrocarbons, as I do not have intentions to include them in the feedstock. My question was mainly focused on the quality of the fuel produced.

Thanks
Marso Green