How to turn plastic waste into diesel fuel cheaply

[imakebiodiesel]

On thinking about this a gasometer like this could possibly replace a bubbler.
The design could be modified to keep the water depth and therefore the back pressure constant.


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[Beyond Biodiesel]

imakebiodiesel, I am not sure if in your design the upper smaller cylinder is allowed to move, but if it is, then it is your basic gas jar design.

In a gas jar the upper cylinder is counter weighted, so that it floats, and does not resist gas coming into it. After the run, then the counter weights can be put on top of the upper cylinder to build pressure in the contained gas, which can then be delivered to a burner, to fuel the next run, or your wife's stove.

There is nothing in the system to prevent the vacuum forming in the retort from sucking the water out of the gas jar, and causing a leak of possibly toxic, or explosive gases, and air coming into the retort. Whereas, if a simple check valve is used, such as is used on an oxy acetylene torch, before the bubbler/gas jar, then no O2 can make it up stream to hot hydrocarbons waiting anxiously for the fire triangle to complete.

[waterboost]

Vacuum on cooling

Just a thought but you can control the injection of inert gas to balance the vacuum on cooling using an anti-vacuum valve. They are fitted to Commercial Espresso Machines to avoid Vacuum on cooling...

Ignoring the bubbler water vacuuming into the retort issue... which will produce hydrogen and oxygen and explode... But even that... we explode hydrogen and oxygen all day for fun... We make HHO units....

My early experiments with a paint tin stuffed with various test items, some more flammable than others revealed no dangers as long as the process has finished before opening the tin... If the tin was still glowing but the process stopped the only issue was the carbon glowing on contact with the air...

Obviously a bit silly opening it while it is still gasing

[kris 8]

bubbler

hello there
this forum is great thanks to all the constructive posters and especially jetis for the inspiration.
after reading for about 6-7months im about 80% through constructing my own setup, ill post pictures at some stage(im very excited about starting to experiment)
the aspect that i could do with some advice on is the bubbler
whilst looking at "My newly constructed fuel making still in operation " on you tube his bubbler or what he calls "check valve" looks bought rather than made i was wondering if anybody knows where to get something like this.

the reason id like to buy a professional rather than making a bubbler is i intend to install the set up on the back deck of my barge. so the more professional looking the better as i have to pass a safety cert every so often

regards and thank you in advance kris

[imakebiodiesel]

When putting up the idea of the gasometer I was just brainstorming, I have a purge system that works perfectly so i wont be using it. However the idea was that when the retort begins to cool the valve from the bubbler would be closed and the other valve opened. This pipe would connect to the system before the bubbler so no water could be sucked back, just gas. The gasometer or gas jar, because that basically is what it is, would allow the gas to be safely stored until it was required.

The check valve would prevent the vacuum sucking back from the bubbler but there is a danger the vacuum could damage the retort, especially a large retort with large flat sides.

The neatest way to make a bubbler is to use a water filter unit. A piece of braided 1" pvc hose fitted where the filter should be and feed the gas in from the opposite direction to normal. Works perfectly and looks good.

[guybelgium]

newbie start up

Hello to everyone.

thx for having this great community.
especially to Jetijs and dr goldsmith for the hat tip about glassware.

started up over the weekend with some PE.
But I still need to learn a lot.
Will show you guys the progress if there is any.

Guy

[jonathan]

retort explosion

hello so if l am understanding if the retort is good no leakege the risk of explosion is when the batch finished or you stop the process? because l think when the retort is heated there was a presure in the retort thanks

[imakebiodiesel]

I just been refining my thoughts about the bubbler and gas storage and have done a new sketch.
In this one the gas enters from the bottom of the gasholder. The high loop and wide section of pipe means that water cannot be drawn back into the condensers or retort.
I am not recommending this set up instead of a purge system, rather as a safety back up system. Another advantage of is that the gas could be stored and used for cooking, electricity genteration, water heating etc when needed.


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[Beyond Biodiesel]

hello there
...the aspect that i could do with some advice on is the bubbler
whilst looking at "My newly constructed fuel making still in operation " on you tube his bubbler or what he calls "check valve" looks bought rather than made i was wondering if anybody knows where to get something like this.

the reason id like to buy a professional rather than making a bubbler is i intend to install the set up on the back deck of my barge. so the more professional looking the better as i have to pass a safety cert every so often

regards and thank you in advance kris

...The neatest way to make a bubbler is to use a water filter unit. A piece of braided 1" pvc hose fitted where the filter should be and feed the gas in from the opposite direction to normal. Works perfectly and looks good.

I made a professional looking bubbler out of modifying a whole house water filter, as imakebiodiesel suggested. Here are pics.
I attached a hose to the lid that descends down into the bottom of the filter housing where the exhaust goes and bubbles through the water in the filter housing.

At the end of the hose I installed a screen to act as a diffuser

This is my bubbler fully assembled and ready to be plumbed in

This is the bubbler plumbed into my pyrolsyis unit

I just been refining my thoughts about the bubbler and gas storage and have done a new sketch.
In this one the gas enters from the bottom of the gasholder. The high loop and wide section of pipe means that water cannot be drawn back into the condensers or retort.
I am not recommending this set up instead of a purge system, rather as a safety back up system. Another advantage of is that the gas could be stored and used for cooking, electricity genteration, water heating etc when needed.

The high and wide loop as some merit. If the height of the loop is 30 feet (9m) then water will be prevented from being sucked into the retort and condenser traps.

Also, if the diameter of the high loop is such that the volume of the high loop is greater than the contents of the bubbler, then again water in the bubbler will not be pulled into the retort or condensers.

[old kodger]

Phew, 72pages, I got through 69 pages then took a rest, and in that time you snuck 3 more pages into the thread.
I didn't want to post anything earlier without having read all of the posts in case what I had to say was already in the thread which I had not yet read.
That said,and bearing in mind that my 'between the ears hard drive' is getting old and less than reliable, I recall that a lot of discussion existed early in the thread about the sealing of retort lids, and it came up again just recently, so clearly it hasn't gone away.
Whilst I respect 'jet's' groove system, other posts have mentioned that machining can be prohibitably expensive, so I'd like to chuck in my two ha'porth's worth. Back in the mid 50's BSA motorcycles produced two bikes, 350cc and 500cc nominated b31 and b33 respectively. These engines did not have a head gasket, instead, the head was ground onto a land on the barrel like a valve. They never gave any trouble and were clearly capable of withstanding combustion pressures and temps. If they started to look a bit weary, you merely hit them with a bit of ginding paste and they were good for another god knows how long.
I hear somebody say "yes, but the surfaces must be flat", yup! and the easiest way to achieve that is go to the local wreckers an get a couple of old flywheels, the clutch side is invariably flat Also, they're a reasonable thickness so they dont distort easily...............food for thought.

Rob.

[Excalibur]

Congrats on the marathon read. It's a mission but the info is invaluable.

I'd be looking for steel flywheels and steer away from those made of cast iron, especially where any welding is necessary like the weld to the retort.

[imakebiodiesel]

welcome Old Kodger, Its a long and sometimes repetitive read. The compression lands you mention in your post usually depends on one surface being softer than the other, typically an aluminium head bolted to a harder alloy or steel cylinder block. This allows the softer face to deform under pressure and fill any microscopic gaps. It would require a lot of pressure to make two carbon steel faces to mate in this way. The idea of a copper washer is a perfect example of a soft metal squeezed between two hard surfaces.
Please dont take these comments as dismissing your idea. The concept is sound and if engineered carefully could be used.

[kris 8]

thanks beyond bio diesel for showing me that, its exactly what i needed
thanks i make bio diesel ive seen that kind of gasometer for bio digestion, in fact theres of videos on youtube of burmese monks using them ill see can find them
im snowed in and got limited internet so ill post pictures etc when i can

regards kris

[PLASTICTRIX]

I just been refining my thoughts about the bubbler and gas storage and have done a new sketch.
In this one the gas enters from the bottom of the gasholder. The high loop and wide section of pipe means that water cannot be drawn back into the condensers or retort.
I am not recommending this set up instead of a purge system, rather as a safety back up system. Another advantage of is that the gas could be stored and used for cooking, electricity genteration, water heating etc when needed.


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I like this design. I think i will make two of these in succession, I need a lot of storage with a 120gal retort. I haven't had the time lately and it has been too cold out to do any runs lately so i have it all apart to work out some bugs and tweak the reflux etc. I will definitely use a gas storage setup like your drawing. My hope is to store enough gas to at least preheat my whole reactor. It will be interesting to see how much gas a 120gal. system will produce in 1 run.
When i get everything up and running this spring i will make a in depth vid of my entire operation.
My reactor is wood/babbington burner/wmo burner/ unregulated gas rosebud/ fired. which is good because it will run on everything but the kitchen sink lol. It utilizes a multiple butterfly damper system to regulate and maintain the temps in the core, reflux, and 1st condenser. since it is built outdoors and i live in new england the outside temp. ranges from -10F to 105F so heating the reflux and condenser is just as important as cooling them. it just depends on the time of year. I have 3 digital thermocouples on display.
It ia built from a 120 gal. vertical propane tank core, with 7 feet worth of a 500gal. round fuel oil skid transfer tank around the outside of it. So it is a 33in dia. tank with a 48in dia. tank welded around it, the exterior of the outer tank is wrapped with 8 inches of ceramic glass insul. then wrapped with a protective shroud of 24ga. aluminum sheet. the outer tank height provides 24in clearance on the bottom for the firebox, lined with firebrick. the top has a 7 inch well casing welded to the core threaded with a steel well cover on it. The stand pipe between the cap and reflux is a double coupled 3'' black pipe. For the cleanout on the side at the bottom I welded a 10in sch40 steel pipe which is also threaded with a steel cap. Large dia. threaded steel caps work well for fill cap and cleanout, using furnace cement for sealant.
I have done 5 small runs only filling it 1/3 with no major issues, I am not using any cat. I have a tall 20gal. baffled reflux dialed in so i get approx. 80% weight to weight between #2 and kero fraction, running approx. a 50/50 hdpe / pp blend and i wet it down with a few gallons of wmo. I find wetting the plastic down really helps alot with initial heating efficiency.
Once i work out the kinks and do a 600lb load of plastic it should produce approx. 80gal. of finished #2 to kero blend in a 7 hr run.
The whole system is damn near self sufficient, I start it with wood and then the naptha and bunker from the previous run gets mixed together and sent through the babbington. The unregulated rosebud burns the off gas once it is up to temp. And wmo fuels the rest.

[operatorX225]

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how much back pressure would equipment like this add to the system? IF back pressure build up is minimal this little contraption is a worth a try!