How to turn plastic waste into diesel fuel cheaply

[Excalibur]

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how much back pressure would equipment like this add to the system?

Should back pressure become a problem because the upper drum was too heavy, attaching an overhead cable on a simple pulley system would be one solution. On the other end of the cable, weights added could effectively make the drum weightless.

[imakebiodiesel]

If you need a larger gasholder you could hook up several in series or here is a design for a larger one. This would hold a cubic meter of gas.


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It would be a simple matter to construct a frame above the tank and attach a rope and pulley. By adjusting the weight you could make the gasholder tank weightless so there would be no back pressure.

[kris 8]

hello all

if ive got it right heres some photos of how far ive got with my plant, to be honest ive not done anything for a while lots to do on the boat.as you can see from middle photo im iced in at the moment
after recent discussions on here i want to put a reflux vessal between the retort and the codensors any ideas on this how big etc would be appreciated
ive got insulation to go around the retort and im making a fire brick surround for the burner below
also some links to the[HTML] cambodian[http://youtu.be/O2ES4YquBi4] [HTML]biodigesters[http://youtu.be/O2ES4YquBi4] i want to put one of these on the boat,but the gas i make from pyrolosis im going to burn to save lpg as i intend to use gas to heat the retort

i have flat copper and brass washers for flange, this was just because of availability/exspense of getting a grooved lid machined. my lid and neck came from a scrap yard.

hopefully images and urls are linked its all new to me

regards kris

[imakebiodiesel]

A reflux column about 12 inches long and 2 inches diameter, packed with stainless steel potscrubs should do the job. Longer is better but if you make it any longer it will need a heater of some sort to maintain a useful temperature.

[Excalibur]

hello all
i have flat copper and brass washers for flange, this was just because of availability/exspense of getting a grooved lid machined. my lid and neck came from a scrap yard.

kris 8, thanks for posting up the pics. I see you have used thread tape on the pipework from the retort. This won't last well at all. The 400.C+ is well above what that tape can withstand. The joints will leak, meaning that gas and condensate will escape creating a fire/explosion risk.
I'm told that anti-seize works better for threaded joints at these temperatures. I'm about to test it on my turk-retort.

[mjohnson1]

kris 8, thanks for posting up the pics. I see you have used thread tape on the pipework from the retort. This won't last well at all. The 400.C+ is well above what that tape can withstand. The joints will leak, meaning that gas and condensate will escape creating a fire/explosion risk.
I'm told that anti-seize works better for threaded joints at these temperatures. I'm about to test it on my turk-retort.

I would suggest furnace cement. I've been using it for awhile and it holds up great.

[PLASTICTRIX]

hello all

if ive got it right heres some photos of how far ive got with my plant, to be honest ive not done anything for a while lots to do on the boat.as you can see from middle photo im iced in at the moment
after recent discussions on here i want to put a reflux vessal between the retort and the codensors any ideas on this how big etc would be appreciated
ive got insulation to go around the retort and im making a fire brick surround for the burner below
also some links to the[HTML] cambodian[http://youtu.be/O2ES4YquBi4] [HTML]biodigesters[http://youtu.be/O2ES4YquBi4] i want to put one of these on the boat,but the gas i make from pyrolosis im going to burn to save lpg as i intend to use gas to heat the retort

i have flat copper and brass washers for flange, this was just because of availability/exspense of getting a grooved lid machined. my lid and neck came from a scrap yard.

hopefully images and urls are linked its all new to me

regards kris

That is looking like a real nice rig so far. Are you going to build a fire brick outer furnace wall or sleeve it with a bigger tank and insulation ? It looks like it would hover nicely into a 60gal. propane tank and leave a decent sized firebox around it.
As far as the reflux goes, IMO it is all about surface area and temp consistency in what ever form you like. s.s. wool pipe provides great surface area in a small package. But for my 120gal.retort i built a large baffled tank reflux with a wool layer, I figure the downward facing baffles and volume will give me more bubble/froth space and extra head space without accidentally gurgling crap into condenser#1 and contaminating my fuel if the burners get frisky.. so I think a larger tank reflux will work better on my setup where a smaller dia. pipe wool reflux may not. I think a smaller pipe wool reflux would be better on a electric fired unit because the temp. is alot smoother and consistent where a flame fired is not. But whatever you come up with you must find the most efficient temp. if a reflux is just installed and ignored it can be very detrimental to the entire operation. Too hot and it is like it isn't even there, and too cold you are wasting energy and run time recycling too much usable fraction. There is a thousand factors that can change the temp differentials that will work with your setup.The best way I have found, or how I started setting mine anyway, is to insulate the reflux well (which lessens the affect of ambient temp), start with it close to the retort and every run move it further and further up using longer and longer pipe, you must run a thermocouple on the retort and a thermocouple on the reflux, and a thermocouple on the 1st condenser keeping a detailed log of all temperatures "even the outside temp on any given day can make a difference", also a consistent plastic, and finished fuel results for every run, is a must. Sooner or later you will find the sweet spot for your setup and the fractions you desire. I haven't found the sweet spot yet. I am now having decent results getting a nice #2 to kero blend for home heating by running approx. reactor-750, reflux-515, 1st condenser-320, 2nd condenser at what ever it feels like and a big bubbler in the end.... My wife thinks I am insane.lol

[imakebiodiesel]

Plastictrix, that is the best description of setting up retort/reflux that I have come across. I just wish that the folks who post asking for a complete set of dimensions , blue prints and temperatures would read it first. Your point about keeping records is very important. I have done 70 batches so far and sometimes reading back over the notes I have discovered something that I completely missed at the time.

[Beyond Biodiesel]

Should back pressure become a problem because the upper drum was too heavy, attaching an overhead cable on a simple pulley system would be one solution. On the other end of the cable, weights added could effectively make the drum weightless.

This is typically how larger gas jars are made from 55gal (200L) up.

[PLASTICTRIX]

Plastictrix, that is the best description of setting up retort/reflux that I have come across. I just wish that the folks who post asking for a complete set of dimensions , blue prints and temperatures would read it first. Your point about keeping records is very important. I have done 70 batches so far and sometimes reading back over the notes I have discovered something that I completely missed at the time.

From reading this thread from stem to stern many times, i have come to realize with a bit of concern that some folks at random< possibly looking for what may be the easy way out and taking and using any blueprint for any part of any reactor design must first fully understand the full nature and true purpose of the part/parts in question.

I know Safety has been discussed in this thread many many times, but I get nervous sometimes, and would just feel better about myself, based on my own observations, throwing these few tips out there, I know many people have heard it all before, and understand. But for those who may not.

I have only been a member of this forum for a week, but have been researching all of the aspects of thermal depolymerization for 3 years. I joined the forum just to add and discuss "Ideas" and the possibilities of application, for these wonderful machines.

IMO..Anyone that may come here blind info gathering all of the "Ideas" for purposing in ones own system, must fully understand that what may work in one system, may kill you in another.

Ask and tell about anything, (even if it sounds stupid) that could possibly have any safety issues. The more safety knowledge and understanding reviewed the better.

One must understand that there really is no magical set of blueprints that you can get, then build and expect to work and operate with a blindfold on.

A short list of thermal depolymerization of plastic facts:

All facts listed below, are based on the possible results of ones gross lack of knowledge and understanding of any pyrolysis device:

Using plans from anyone may cause injury or death

Building a reactor may cause injury or death

750 deg. plastic or wmo may cause injury or death

Explosion may cause injury or death

Poisonous gasses may cause injury or death

Lack of knowledge may cause injury or death

Not completing 100% research may cause injury or death

Not using safe testing practices may cause injury or death

I take no responsibility for other peoples actions based on any of my "Ideas"

I just feel better now. Thanks, PLASTICTRIX

[operatorX225]

Thanks for the words of wisdom PLASTICTRIX! this is why I am started at the ultra small lab scale using glassware. I am learning valuable information doing this Verses jumping into a decent sized reactor blind. I am dialing in repeatability and honing in the process before scaling up. Once I feel confident in the small scale operation I will scale the process up with the knowledge learned from the glassware experiments. I also understand the variables will change as the scale increases however I have learned knowledge that can carry over to the larger scale unit I plan on building. I think its imperative that unless a good understanding of this whole idea is reached jumping right into a reactor that can produce gallons of this stuff is a horrible idea. Lets just say im extremely glad i started small or my little mistakes would have put me on the fire dept's radar long ago! haha

[mjohnson1]

Thanks for the words of wisdom PLASTICTRIX! this is why I am started at the ultra small lab scale using glassware. I am learning valuable information doing this Verses jumping into a decent sized reactor blind. I am dialing in repeatability and honing in the process before scaling up. Once I feel confident in the small scale operation I will scale the process up with the knowledge learned from the glassware experiments. I also understand the variables will change as the scale increases however I have learned knowledge that can carry over to the larger scale unit I plan on building. I think its imperative that unless a good understanding of this whole idea is reached jumping right into a reactor that can produce gallons of this stuff is a horrible idea. Lets just say im extremely glad i started small or my little mistakes would have put me on the fire dept's radar long ago! haha

I'm not a big fan of the glassware and would much rather work with a series of pipes/fittings for a small test reactor.

One important thing to consider is the difficulty to condense different fractions in a small unit. With a bigger unit you can space out the different condensing hardware so you have different temperature zones. With a small reactor you have to control the whole thing to output a single fraction and change everything if you want to produce a different fraction.

If you have a purge gas and an airtight setup you minimize the possibility of any fires or explosions.

[PLASTICTRIX]

Thanks for the words of wisdom PLASTICTRIX! this is why I am started at the ultra small lab scale using glassware. I am learning valuable information doing this Verses jumping into a decent sized reactor blind. I am dialing in repeatability and honing in the process before scaling up. Once I feel confident in the small scale operation I will scale the process up with the knowledge learned from the glassware experiments. I also understand the variables will change as the scale increases however I have learned knowledge that can carry over to the larger scale unit I plan on building. I think its imperative that unless a good understanding of this whole idea is reached jumping right into a reactor that can produce gallons of this stuff is a horrible idea. Lets just say im extremely glad i started small or my little mistakes would have put me on the fire dept's radar long ago! haha

I agree with mjohnson1 about the glassware. The use of glassware does have a lot of good uses as far as testing is concerned and (glass) viewing some of the elementary basics of the vaporization and condensation of different plastics etc.
Glassware is pretty expensive and fragile though, especially at the high temps required for pyrolysis, it takes zero abuse, it has some issues as far as properly/safely sealing the vessel connections at such high temps. It would very difficult to set up and tune a configuration that would even closely resemble a smaller unit made from steel.

My first small setup. The retort I used a 8" long 3"dia. threaded black pipe nipple with a threaded cap on the bottom and a 3" to 1/2" reducing bushing on the top. I slid it into an old paint can for the outer furnace walls, insulated it with some pink panther and used a small propane camping stove burner cut into the bottom to fire it. So on the top reducing bushing i was able to interchange 1/2" pipe nipples of many different lengths to the reflux For the 1st and 2nd condenser i used the small green coleman camping propane tanks. The bubbler was a 24in tall glass vase from ikea that a hockey puck happened to fit perfect for a bung.

It is things of this nature that work better for small testing units, they will more closely resemble and more accurately scale up to a larger unit, they are reasonably inexpensive or free, the adaptability is almost unlimited for different test scenarios, and typically does not shatter when bumped or mistreated.

I almost forgot. Drilling virgin holes in propane tanks can be hazardous to your health. So for precaution I always leave the valve open upside down outside for a few days prior to drilling. I always drill a hole in it first with the tank fully submerged in a bucket of water, once you have a hole in the tank filling it with water to the top pushes out any gas that may be left. Even a tank left with the valve opened for days can still house flammable gas. Also keep in mind welding on the tank with a little water in it, can also be dangerous if the steam has no where to go.

IMO Propane tanks make sweet equipment. They come in so many nice sizes and are all made from high quality carbon steel. Gas grill tanks make nice condensers.

It is so much fun testing all of the variables isn't it? I love the sound of the plastic bubbling and crackling, and oh the sweet waxy smell of polyolefins in the air. It makes me want to vaporize something. lol

[operatorX225]

I do see your points about using glassware I was just saying some of these guys come on here wanting to replicate some decent 100+gallon sized reactors and have not a clue how the process works. Glassware is a PITA ive broken a few reflux bulbs it seems just by looking at them. I guess it all boils down to actually visually seeing whats happening throughout the entire process. At the time I got a good deal on the kit im using from a chemist friend who just had the stuff laying around so it fit perfect into my needs. I have a fundamental understanding of whats going on and have learned quite a few things. A few more runs and ill be able to build a true reactor!

[PLASTICTRIX]

I do see your points about using glassware I was just saying some of these guys come on here wanting to replicate some decent 100+gallon sized reactors and have not a clue how the process works. Glassware is a PITA ive broken a few reflux bulbs it seems just by looking at them. I guess it all boils down to actually visually seeing whats happening throughout the entire process. At the time I got a good deal on the kit im using from a chemist friend who just had the stuff laying around so it fit perfect into my needs. I have a fundamental understanding of whats going on and have learned quite a few things. A few more runs and ill be able to build a true reactor!

I bet you cant wait to get one going. It is an exiting endeavor.
I am a carpenter/builder by trade so building in general is in my blood, it is all i do. I just built my 120gal. late last summer and i constantly have the strong urge to tear it apart and modify it. It is half apart now and i am already thinking of building a single baffled tower condenser, like a mini version of what you would see at a full scale refinery. I also am thinking about welding heat transfer rods into the retort to increase heating surface area. I have a ton of great ideas for making reactors run more efficiently. I just need to get some of them up on this thread.
Stay tuned !