How to turn plastic waste into diesel fuel cheaply

[PLASTICTRIX]

Have any of you guys had flashbacks as far as your bubbler?

I had my bubbler thump once a long while ago..It was when i was still working on the system and dialing everything in.
I think it is rather uncommon but then again all it takes is one good thump and things could go really wrong fast..
It happened when i was just burning off the gas into the open air during a test run. I was using a 20gal air compressor tank for the bubbler at the time, with a 3/4 rubber fuel line coming out of it. I had the rubber hose stuck through a hole in the bottom of a 1 gallon paint can with no lid to catch/contain the flame for a better cleaner burn, it was about 20 feet away. I was busy watching everything else and fiddling around with things and not paying attention to the flame, As the retort ran out of plastic the pressure must have dropped out to zero gas movement and the flame sucked up the hose.. it sounded like a big model rocket engine thrust and then a dull thump in the bubbler..It pushed about 2 gallons of water back up into my 2nd condenser..fortunately nothing else happened. If the air/gas mixture had been better I don't know what would have happened but it may have not ended well..
So..from my experience it can happen, uncommon yes, But probably only when the pressure drops out to zero at the end of a run if your not paying attention.

[imakebiodiesel]

There is no doubt that the end of a run is the riskiest time and special precautions need to be taken until the whole system cools down.
A good flashback arrestor is the jet used in an ordinary gas burner ring. This tiny opening will prevent air and flame moving backwards right down to near zero pressure. But that does not mean I am going to do without both a bubbler and a stainless steel wool arrestor.

[imakebiodiesel]

Speaking of flashing has got me back to the tests I proposed earlier. Flash point is a simple test, if a bit dramatic.
You will need a tin can, a blow torch, a thermometer that will measure up to 150C and a dinner plate, preferably not one of your wifes best dinner service.

Half fill the tin can with the test fuel and measure the temperature. Remove the thermometer and pass the blowtorch flame over the top of the can. Fast enough that the flame touches the surface of the fuel, but not so slowly that it starts to heat the fuel. If it ignites at room temperature the sample contains light distillate ( petrol). Place the plate on the top of the can to put the flame out.
If it does not ignite, heat the sample with the blow torch by 10 degrees and try again and so on until the fuel ignites.
Sample containing kerosene will ignite at 70 - 80C while diesel ignites at 100 - 130C.

This test does not work very well on a mixture of fuels because it will ignite at close to the flash point of the lightest fraction in the mixture.

[waterboost]

Seals

Anyone tried seals made of wool?

Pure natural untreated wool can withstand 600 degrees C

Just made some out of an old lambswool jumper/sweater that I shrunk a while ago....

[waterboost]

Looking Good

It looks great in the house

Proper Steam Punk

[Beyond Biodiesel]

Anyone tried seals made of wool?

Pure natural untreated wool can withstand 600 degrees C

Just made some out of an old lambswool jumper/sweater that I shrunk a while ago....

I had no idea that wool could handle 600 degrees C. If that is true, then it could be used as insulation, but I would think it would be too porous to function as a seal.

mtrans, on my forum is from Romania. There they commonly use wheat paste as a seal for their booze stills, so he plans to use it for his WMO distillation retort. I have not heard whether it works or not. I would think a flour paste would burn off at the operating temperature for pyrolysis to take place, but it is worth trying on a small scale.

I am using aluminum pressure cookers with metal-to-metal seals, and they are working great.

[PLASTICTRIX]

I had no idea that wool could handle 600 degrees C. If that is true, then it could be used as insulation, but I would think it would be too porous to function as a seal.

mtrans, on my forum is from Romania. There they commonly use wheat paste as a seal for their booze stills, so he plans to use it for his WMO distillation retort. I have not heard whether it works or not. I would think a flour paste would burn off at the operating temperature for pyrolysis to take place, but it is worth trying on a small scale.

I am using aluminum pressure cookers with metal-to-metal seals, and they are working great.

I would be willing to bet, wool would work well on any flat bolt on plate flange/cover.
#4 or #5 raw wool yarn purchased at a fabric or craft store would work great.. If one just laid one or two strands, (rubbed down with anti seize) around the center of the flange in place of where a "v" groove would be. In theory it would crush flat and tight enough to effectively make a great non porous, cheap, one time use seal.

[Beyond Biodiesel]

Well, I would like to know if it will work, but firing up a retort that is only sealed with wool is a bit scary to me. Supposedly graphite cordage was tried and it did not work, but then someone else might be able to make it work.

[waterboost]

First Run

First can I thank everyone who has contributed to this thread.

We fired up the unit today and it didnt work... no gas, no smoke, no liquid...

We waited for 2 hours... Then I noticed a sound like dripping water into a hot pan... the reflux was refluxing... but it was not hot enough so the vapours were all falling back down...

I modified the unit to include a pipe that redirected the waste chimney heat towards the reflux and wrapped it in insulation...

The sizzling stopped and a short while later the first batch of super fuel was drained from the first condenser.



Then the gas ran out... it was getting late... turned it off... ready for tomorrow...



The fuel ignites immediately with a lighter and burns very cleanly...

It looks like whiskey but smells like almonds mixed with wood spirit.

Insulation is an issue that needs improving...

Also, we produced no smoke or flammable gas????

I diverted the gas return pipe and fed it into a glass of water to see what was happening... nothing!

How can I make fuel and NOT gas or smoke?

[Excalibur]

What temperatures were the retort and reflux during the test?

[PLASTICTRIX]

First can I thank everyone who has contributed to this thread.

We fired up the unit today and it didnt work... no gas, no smoke, no liquid...

We waited for 2 hours... Then I noticed a sound like dripping water into a hot pan... the reflux was refluxing... but it was not hot enough so the vapours were all falling back down...

I modified the unit to include a pipe that redirected the waste chimney heat towards the reflux and wrapped it in insulation...

The sizzling stopped and a short while later the first batch of super fuel was drained from the first condenser.



Then the gas ran out... it was getting late... turned it off... ready for tomorrow...



The fuel ignites immediately with a lighter and burns very cleanly...

It looks like whiskey but smells like almonds mixed with wood spirit.

Insulation is an issue that needs improving...

Also, we produced no smoke or flammable gas????

I diverted the gas return pipe and fed it into a glass of water to see what was happening... nothing!

How can I make fuel and NOT gas or smoke?

Congrats on the first run !!

Depending on your retort temp differential while the plastic is under initial heating the retort will throw back most of everything until it reaches critical temps when vapor starts passing.. It may seem like forever sometimes. It takes a while for all of the plastic to heat evenly all the way to the top (where the vapor leaves the plastic). On my setup i get very little condensate untill the retort temp is about 340c., by then my retort is like 320c. and it just barely starts to trickle. Then once i hit retort temps from 380c. up to 400c. with reflux stabilized at 350c.to 355c. then it just starts to fly and blows through a lot of plastic in rather short order.

It is easy to jump the gun a little on waiting for the initial heatup to stabilize at optimum temp and then end up overheating the reflux. All a reflux needs is to be well insulated and to be kept at the proper distance from the retort. IMO the distance should only be calibrated to the optimum operating temp of the unit. At lower or higher operating temps, the ratio of the retort/reflx temp differential is altered resulting in erratic output behavior.

[Beyond Biodiesel]

The fuel ignites immediately with a lighter and burns very cleanly...

It looks like whiskey but smells like almonds mixed with wood spirit.

Insulation is an issue that needs improving...

Congratulations waterboost, it sounds like your pyrolysis unit is working; however, the smell of almonds is a bit disturbing. What was your feed stock. If it was Acrylonitrile-Butadiene-Styrene Copolymers (ABS), then that smell of almonds was Hydrogen cyanide (HCN), so read the quote below.

Toxic by-products of pyrolysis of Acrylonitrile-Butadiene-Styrene Copolymers (ABS)
FIRE AND MATERIALS, VOL. 10,93-105 (1986)
Acrylonitrile-Butadiene-Styrene Copolymers (ABS): Pyrolysis and Combustion Products and their Toxicity-A Review of the Literature
Joseph V. Rutkowski and Barbara C. Levintus Department of Commerce, National Bureau of Standards, National Engineering Laboratory, Center for Fire Research, Gaithersburg, MD 20899, USA
A review of the literature was undertaken to ascertain the current knowledge of the nature of the thermal decomposition products generated from ABS and the toxicity of these evolved products in toto. The literature review encompasses English language publications available through June 1984. This literature surveyed showed that the principal ABS thermooxidative degradation products of toxicologic importance are carbon monoxide and hydrogen cyanide.

Hydrogen cyanide (with the alternate archaic name of prussic acid) is an inorganic compound[6] with chemical formula HCN. It is a colorless, extremely poisonous liquid that boils slightly above room temperature at 26 °C (79 °F). Hydrogen cyanide is a linear molecule, with a triple bond between carbon and nitrogen. A minor tautomer of HCN is HNC, hydrogen isocyanide.

Hydrogen cyanide is weakly acidic with a pKa of 9.2. It partially ionizes in water solution to give the cyanide anion, CN–. A solution of hydrogen cyanide in water is called hydrocyanic acid. The salts of hydrogen cyanide are known as cyanides.

HCN has a faint, bitter, almond-like odor that some people are unable to detect owing to a genetic trait.[7] The volatile compound has been used as inhalation rodenticide and human poison. Cyanide ions interfere with iron-containing respiratory enzymes.

Toxic by-products of pyrolysis

The fuel ignites immediately with a lighter and Also, we produced no smoke or flammable gas????

I diverted the gas return pipe and fed it into a glass of water to see what was happening... nothing!

How can I make fuel and NOT gas or smoke?

It does not sound like you have a bubbler. You really owe it to your personal safety to install one.

Also, if you have nothing coming out of your vent line, then you have a leak somewhere. So, you should make sure your pyrolysis unit is leak tight before firing it up, and that all seals can handle the temperature you are going to operate at.

If you are going to experiment with non conventional seals, such as wool, then you will want to test them at operating temperature without feed stock in your unit.

[Spincabby]

Making oil and fuel from renewable resources

The info is already shared, if you don't understand something or have any questions I will answer them, just ask I am aware that if you see this tech for the first time it might be confusing, but that is why I am here, to answer questions

We are also using the same technique to make synthetic oil from wood chips! Plastic to fuel, wood-chips to oil, and hydrogen/oxygen electrolysis via solar. Has anyone ever used a cracking column to separate the diesel, gasoline, and light distillates?

Thanks for all the information Jetijs!

Spincabby

[Jetijs]

Hi Spincabby.
Glad to be of help. Would you be willing to talk a bit more about the woodchip tech? That is one of the things I would really wan to try
Jetijs

[Beyond Biodiesel]

[QUOTE=Spincabby;225263]We are also using the same technique to make synthetic oil from wood chips! Plastic to fuel, wood-chips to oil, and hydrogen/oxygen electrolysis via solar.
Welcome, Spincabby, I am planning on running wood through my pyrolysis unit as well. I see no reason why wood could not be run through it in the same way plastics are processed.

Has anyone ever used a cracking column to separate the diesel, gasoline, and light distillates?

Thanks for all the information Jetijs!

Spincabby

I am not sure what you mean here. A cracking column/tower is for by using cracking, but after the cracking tower there is commonly a distillation tower. I do not use the tower principle in my pyrolysis unit. Several of us are using staged condenser traps to separate the fractions.

Here is a photo of my last run with 5 separate condenser traps.
The Samples: far left Ice trap sample (gasoline), Water trap sample (kerosene), Vac trap-3 sample, Vac trap-2 sample, Vac trap-1 2 samples,

Ice trap sample (gasoline), 136 ml, 38 ml water

Water trap sample (light kerosene), 310 ml, 70 ml water

Vac trap 3 sample (heavy kerosene), 176 ml, 48 ml water

Vac trap 2 sample, 1360 ml, 10 ml water, .812 sg (winter diesel)

Vac trap 1 sample, 2340 ml, 10 ml sediments, .843 sg (summer diesel D2)

Total sample collected: 4322 ml
Total water and sediments: 176 ml
Total hydrocarbons collected: 4146 ml (1.1 us Gal) out of 5 gallons (18.9L)