How to turn plastic waste into diesel fuel cheaply

[imakebiodiesel]

Keeping the probe out of the path of descending reflux is a good idea. My own is off to one side so I never had that problem. A probe at the bottom would be useful but in my retort it would not survive for long.

The pipe between boiler/retort and distilling/reflux should be open at all times. In fact there should be no valve in case someone might accidentally close it. I bring my temperature up to 385c gradually in steps over 2 hours to avoid blockages. This might not be so important with wmo but with solid plastics there is a danger that the lower layer will melt and boil pushing the upper semisolid layer upwards and blocking the outlets at the top of the retort. That situation could be very dangerous.

[palmtrees]

diesel

Keeping the probe out of the path of descending reflux is a good idea. My own is off to one side so I never had that problem. A probe at the bottom would be useful but in my retort it would not survive for long.

The pipe between boiler/retort and distilling/reflux should be open at all times. In fact there should be no valve in case someone might accidentally close it. I bring my temperature up to 385c gradually in steps over 2 hours to avoid blockages. This might not be so important with wmo but with solid plastics there is a danger that the lower layer will melt and boil pushing the upper semisolid layer upwards and blocking the outlets at the top of the retort. That situation could be very dangerous.

Hi imakebiodiesel,
I have started to build a bigger reactor it will have a cat just above the reactor then a reflux and three condenser, will show pics later,
all so I am running some test this weekend on different type of plastic and will put pics on here with what type of plastic, I have used and info so I hope it will help overs on here and hope for some good feed back,

[Excalibur]

I was looking at refractory insulation for my new build and I was astounded at the cost of fire bricks. Some $400-$500 worth.
Surely there's something cheaper. Two possibilities came to mind. Firstly the bricks could be homemade from clay, vermiculite, perlite, etc. This method also has the advantage that they could be made to measure and shape required. In my case, ideally I want crescent shape bricks.
The second idea was to pour vermiculite or perlite between walls of the retort to form a sandwiched barrier. I saw the idea used on rocket stoves. Further study turned up pumice as another cheap possible insulation. Vermiculite or perlite is a cheap solution and I could fullfill my needs for under $100 or significantly less if pumice proved to be good enough.

Actually dry clay poured in and compacted would be the easiest on the pocket. I could most probably find some for free. Various brick recipes show ash, sawdust and charcoal as ingredients however there doesn't appear to be an outright need to make bricks as such. The material only need be captive between layers.

[waterboost]

Insulation

Rock Wool is cheap and works brilliantly...

[palmtrees]

diesel

I was looking at refractory insulation for my new build and I was astounded at the cost of fire bricks. Some $400-$500 worth.
Surely there's something cheaper. Two possibilities came to mind. Firstly the bricks could be homemade from clay, vermiculite, perlite, etc. This method also has the advantage that they could be made to measure and shape required. In my case, ideally I want crescent shape bricks.
The second idea was to pour vermiculite or perlite between walls of the retort to form a sandwiched barrier. I saw the idea used on rocket stoves. Further study turned up pumice as another cheap possible insulation. Vermiculite or perlite is a cheap solution and I could fullfill my needs for under $100 or significantly less if pumice proved to be good enough.

Actually dry clay poured in and compacted would be the easiest on the pocket. I could most probably find some for free. Various brick recipes show ash, sawdust and charcoal as ingredients however there doesn't appear to be an outright need to make bricks as such. The material only need be captive between layers.

Hi Excalibur, i am building a brick wall, the bricks that we have here are 0.400 mm long x 0.200 mm wide and 0.200 mm hight, they have two hole that go thought them so i will fill them with sand, this worked with my old gas bottle as a reactor and work well for the lid i will use some granite slab this will keep in the heat, the granite top will work like a hot plate so i can cook my breakfast on it at the same time lol

[Tplane37]

I was looking at refractory insulation for my new build and I was astounded at the cost of fire bricks. Some $400-$500 worth.
Surely there's something cheaper.

I used to work in a steel foundry. We used refractory cement in our pots to protect them from the molten steel. I looked at the local hardware store here in the US. A 25lb bucket was around $30 US. You have two types, one for small patch work, and one for thicker material such as making bricks or liners. Use the one for thicker builds.

It mixes like concrete mix, but can be applied and formed like clay. We used rubber gloves to shape it and apply it to the insides of our molten steel buckets, and then used a natural gas torch like you would see for applying patches to an asphalt driveway or road. We used this torch to cure the refractory cement for several hours. A fuel fired Burner like many are using to heat their retorts should work to cure the cement.

This is what I plan to use on my retort.

EDIT: Here's a link. Castable Refractory Cement at Menards
Here's an added bonus, the bucket is made of #2 Plastic.

[imakebiodiesel]

Casting large pieces of refactory clay or cement will almost certainly mean they will crack as they expand and contract. Casting individual bricks and assembling them dry will work better. If you cant get castable refractory cement a mixture of 1 part ordinary cement, 2 parts sand and 2 parts vermiculite will work almost as well. Rock wool ( not fibre glass ) insulation is good for up to 600C.
Fire brick and ceramic fibre are very expensive but are rated for far higher temperatures ( 2000C+) than we need.

[Excalibur]

Casting large pieces of refactory clay or cement will almost certainly mean they will crack as they expand and contract. Casting individual bricks and assembling them dry will work better. If you cant get castable refractory cement a mixture of 1 part ordinary cement, 2 parts sand and 2 parts vermiculite will work almost as well. Rock wool ( not fibre glass ) insulation is good for up to 600C.
Fire brick and ceramic fibre are very expensive but are rated for far higher temperatures ( 2000C+) than we need.

You are correct. There is a sound reason why fire bricks are made to the common standard size of 9”x 4.5”x 3” (imperial) – any larger size will spall and crack in unwanted places.
The refractory cement called ciment fondu is calcium aluminate, rated to 1250c about 3 times that of portland cement.
Here is info on the effects of elevated temperature on cements. Also a rating chart for a variety of materials like perlite, vermiculite, sand, etc.

Refractory for Sheddies is a down to earth look at refractory for the home handyman.

Today I found a source of perlite for $28 100L bag. That's significantly better than garden supply shops.

I ran the turk-retort today. After 1.5hours I shutdown the injector pump and forced air fan. The non-condensable gases continued heating the retort averaging 400c for a further 38minutes.

[Allcanadian]

I read through this thread again and have done similar things in the past however I am left with many hard questions. We are simply taking a viable resource, plastic, and using it as a fuel in an unsustainable way. Thus we are still using a caveman mentality --- gather it and burn it as fuel.

If we really wanted to make a difference I think it would be much better to take a known resource such as plastic and use it in a more intelligent way. That is to invent a cheap way to injection mold parts to build wind turbines or micro-hydro devices. Why not capture a clean sustainable resource utilizing an unsustainable one such as waste plastic?.

In any case it sounds like a good idea on the surface but it just ain't and the main reasons are obvious. We have to get past the hunter/gatherer mentality and start doing things smarter.

AC

[Beyond Biodiesel]

I used to work in a steel foundry. We used refractory cement in our pots to protect them from the molten steel. I looked at the local hardware store here in the US. A 25lb bucket was around $30 US. You have two types, one for small patch work, and one for thicker material such as making bricks or liners. Use the one for thicker builds.

It mixes like concrete mix, but can be applied and formed like clay. We used rubber gloves to shape it and apply it to the insides of our molten steel buckets, and then used a natural gas torch like you would see for applying patches to an asphalt driveway or road. We used this torch to cure the refractory cement for several hours. A fuel fired Burner like many are using to heat their retorts should work to cure the cement.

This is what I plan to use on my retort.

EDIT: Here's a link. Castable Refractory Cement at Menards
Here's an added bonus, the bucket is made of #2 Plastic.

You are correct. There is a sound reason why fire bricks are made to the common standard size of 9”x 4.5”x 3” (imperial) – any larger size will spall and crack in unwanted places.
The refractory cement called ciment fondu is calcium aluminate, rated to 1250c about 3 times that of portland cement.
Here is info on the effects of elevated temperature on cements. Also a rating chart for a variety of materials like perlite, vermiculite, sand, etc.

Refractory for Sheddies is a down to earth look at refractory for the home handyman.

Today I found a source of perlite for $28 100L bag. That's significantly better than garden supply shops.

I ran the turk-retort today. After 1.5hours I shutdown the injector pump and forced air fan. The non-condensable gases continued heating the retort averaging 400c for a further 38minutes.

Thank-you Tplane37 and Excalibur for posting some useful links for making firebrick. Yesterday, I made 2 firebricks. The first I mixed wood ash at 50% with pre-mix plaster, then brought the consistency back to normal plaster mud, then poured it into a mold to setup.

Late in the day, to use up the last of the pre-mix plaster, I made another brick. This time I poured the pre-mix plaster into my mold then I worked in by hand an equal amount of screened ash, and did not add water. The mix ended up more clay-like and smoother when I was done. This is what they look like this morning.

Firebrick 1, morning after

Firebrick 1, morning after

I found both firebricks had firmed up considerably over the night, but they were still quite plastic, and not ready to be de-molded. The second firebrick shows some cracking, but I am not concerned about surface cracks for now. I am more concerned that the firebricks have sufficient mechanical integrity so that they will at least standup against multiple cycles to high temperature, and disassembly, better than rockwool, which tends to flake apart after one or 2 cycles.

My forum has a whole section on insulation ideas that some of you might find useful to investigate.
High temperature insulation

[imakebiodiesel]

Allcanadian, no one is suggesting that we turn valuable plastics that can otherwise be recycled or reused into fuel. In fact, as many on this forum have discovered, clean sorted plastic waste is worth more than the fuel you could make from it.
The benefit of this technology is that mixed dirty plastic waste can be used. This has no commercial value and is destined for landfill or worse gets dumped in the sea causing serious pollution and habitat degradation. Because this fuel is sourced from local supplies of waste rather than crude oil shipped halfway around the world it has a much lower carbon footprint than conventional fossil fuels.

Due to the extreme stresses that wind turbines and micro hydro units have to survive it is extremely unlikely that injection moulded parts from low grade mixed plastics would survive for long.
In any case wind turbines and micro hydro are a romantic fantasy and will never make the slightest dent in our current and growing demands for energy. Even if millions of them were commissioned their output is so erratic that oil, gas and nuclear power stations must constantly remain on standby to ensure a continuous supply.

[Tplane37]

I read through this thread again and have done similar things in the past however I am left with many hard questions. We are simply taking a viable resource, plastic, and using it as a fuel in an unsustainable way. Thus we are still using a caveman mentality --- gather it and burn it as fuel.

If we really wanted to make a difference I think it would be much better to take a known resource such as plastic and use it in a more intelligent way. That is to invent a cheap way to injection mold parts to build wind turbines or micro-hydro devices. Why not capture a clean sustainable resource utilizing an unsustainable one such as waste plastic?.

In any case it sounds like a good idea on the surface but it just ain't and the main reasons are obvious. We have to get past the hunter/gatherer mentality and start doing things smarter.

AC

As many experimenters have discovered, there are countless other materials that can be used as feedstock for these pyrolysis units, not just plastic. However, designing these units to use plastic as their primary feedstock allows the experimenter to employ several additional safety features that one would typically overlook if they were designing their units for manure, wood, certain grass clippings/hay, or other feed stocks containing lipids and oils.

And I do not believe that anyone suggested that we utilize fuel from plastic as a replacement for fossil fuels, however, I believe the concept is to research additional alternative fuels from as many sources as possible. While these units are not likely to replace fossil fuels for any nation, state, or locality as a whole, it is very possible that these units can allow various resourceful individuals to replace their own personal dependance on fossil fuels when used in combination with several other alternative energy sources such as the windmills, solar arrays, geothermal, and hydroelectric generators.

[palmtrees]

diesel

Keeping the probe out of the path of descending reflux is a good idea. My own is off to one side so I never had that problem. A probe at the bottom would be useful but in my retort it would not survive for long.

The pipe between boiler/retort and distilling/reflux should be open at all times. In fact there should be no valve in case someone might accidentally close it. I bring my temperature up to 385c gradually in steps over 2 hours to avoid blockages. This might not be so important with wmo but with solid plastics there is a danger that the lower layer will melt and boil pushing the upper semisolid layer upwards and blocking the outlets at the top of the retort. That situation could be very dangerous.

Hi imakebiodiesel,
i did some test over the weekend, test 1 this was with a paint tin and got very good fuel, test 1 on car bumper plastic type was pp+f/p i put the cat in side the paint tin on top of the plastic. i made a wire cage for the cat for the cat i used bits of ceramic bricks, i turn the gas on after 5 mins we had smoke 10 mins later we had liquid, 20 mins later smoke stop but liquid got faster, 1 hour in and we had 125ml of fuel and no bad smell, weight of plastic in tin was 582 gms weight of liquid was 357gms, the cat done the trick the fuel was so clear you do not have to filter it at all, also i started a test on pe plastic the liquid that i was getting was like a lime colour very clear but the gas run out have start a gain,also the liquid from the pe plastic did not go to wax or wax over stayed as a nice liquid, also two weeks ago we tried some of the fuel we made on a petrol car we have it started and run ok,
here is some pics a video

this fuel is from plastic pp+f/p
https://picasaweb.google.com/1090522...OuG_NrQmbWY_AE

this is what iam useing for my cat
https://picasaweb.google.com/1090522...OuG_NrQmbWY_AE

https://picasaweb.google.com/1090522...OuG_NrQmbWY_AE

https://picasaweb.google.com/1090522...OuG_NrQmbWY_AE

https://picasaweb.google.com/1090522...OuG_NrQmbWY_AE

this is what i got when i did a test on some pe plastic
https://picasaweb.google.com/1090522...OuG_NrQmbWY_AE

car running on fuel from plastic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4qGXgVKn2I

[palmtrees]

cat

What kind of pottery. Could you use bricks like this



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

This hollow brick has a large contact area as a catalyst and is not expensive

Please, try could it work?!

Hi they worked for me did not have to filter

[imakebiodiesel]

Nice one Palmtrees. Porous fired clay has a low but dependable catalytic action and placing it inside the retort is a good idea. The higher temperatures will make it work better. Did you also use a reflux column? I dont see the top of your retort in the picture. It takes quite a lot of this catalyst to crack the plastic, roughly 2 / 1 ratio of plastic / catalyst but its plentiful and cheap so it hardly matters.
Using your mixture in a petrol car is a safer bet than a diesel. Petrol with some heavier fractions in it may smoke a little but will run safely. Running a diesel engine on diesel fuel with a lot of lighter fractions in it will cause excessive wear and may cause injector damage.