How to turn plastic waste into diesel fuel cheaply

[Excalibur]

dear friend Excaliber
today i saw your blog nice work , there you show a water bubbler ( which I thought is one of the major safety equipment for a ideal pyrolysis unit) with a yellow cylinder inverted on one red cylinder would you please explain this design in detail



sunilkm153

Thanks. I've updated the blog page of the bubbler (mk6,item9) with a much more detailed description and pics.
Bubbler & drawback arrestor
In short, the yellow vessel is a draw-back-arrestor which prevents bubbler water being sucked back upstream when the retort cools/contracts at shutdown of the process. The arrestor works automatic and though a non-essential addition it is handy to stop water from contaminating the condenser immediately upstream.

[ashiki]

In ALL forums, and ALL threads, there should be (at the risk of 'shoulding' on anyone) a rule or guideline that says BEFORE posting, read the thread from the beginning, to see if your question or idea has already been covered.

It ALSO 'should' be 'understood' that EVERY post, from anyone, comes with a built in disclaimer; "This is just MY 'opinion'; and opinions are like *ssholes; everyone HAS one, and most ALL of us, (at one time or another), ARE one."

Speaking for myself, I KNOW there are times when I've acted or reacted in a very *sshole like way, and only realised it AFTER the fact,...;-( Hey, its just part of the human condition!

Anyway, no harm, no foul. Jim

I dont think i will be reading the whole 93 pages of a thread to find a line of info!
.
.
just search it out

[Mostafagaga]

i want your help really

i put my plastic with bentonit calcuime 10%
in oven 480 degree for 4 hours with pipe to get the vapor but i get nothing at all ???

can any one tells me where is the wrong ????

[Beyond Biodiesel]

Hi guys, thanks for your feedback, much appreciated. I'll have a look at BBD's forum for further info / ideas.

I hope you find the forum useful. If you want to post there, then you will have to join, then PM me, and I will upgrade your membership as soon as I can get to it.

I have a mate who did some work at a local waste oil processing plant. He reckons these guys put $60K into trying to get kero to blend with waste grease to be sold as industrial burner fuel. Apparently they were having trouble getting the grease to stay in suspension after delivery to the customer, it would fall out into the bottom of the tank and lead to dramas. He says they abandoned the idea. I reckon if you gave $60K to some of the guys on this forum they'd soon figure out a way to keep the blend uniform. Surely even a simple circulating pump (and maybe a heater) on the customer's bulk tank would had to have come close to solving the issue? But I guess 'close enough' is not good enough and I only have one second hand comment to go off.

Cheers.
Col

Blending waste oils with solvents has been an interest of mine for 8 years. I have not tried blending kerosene with grease. It probably poses the same problem as blending animal fat with petroleum distillates. The solution that I have not tried yet, but I think will work is to heat the grease up to fully liquid phase, then blend in a heavier fraction, say diesel fuel, at about 50%. Then allow the blend to cool. Once cool there might be a precipitate, so that will have to be removed, then the liquid blend could be further thinned with a lighter fractions, such as gasoline (petrol) to keep it liquid down to 32F (0c). I plan to try this blend soon as I have an accumulation of animal fat to do something with.

[sunilkm153]

i want your help really

i put my plastic with bentonit calcuime 10%
in oven 480 degree for 4 hours with pipe to get the vapor but i get nothing at all ???

can any one tells me where is the wrong ????

There are many senior members to explain this but as per my view at temperatures above 410 - 430 deg centigrade the hydrocarbon chain further breakes forming hydrogen and carbon and no fuel at all so keep your temp below 420 and try

[sunilkm153]

Thanks. I've updated the blog page of the bubbler (mk6,item9) with a much more detailed description and pics.
Bubbler & drawback arrestor
In short, the yellow vessel is a draw-back-arrestor which prevents bubbler water being sucked back upstream when the retort cools/contracts at shutdown of the process. The arrestor works automatic and though a non-essential addition it is handy to stop water from contaminating the condenser immediately upstream.

Thank you dear friend for promptly upgrading the blog , good implimentation of ideas , have you tested the device practically .

What may be the ideal volume ratio of reactor and draw back arrestor . In your case volume of reactor is 50 Ltr while the yellow cylinder seems to be 4Ltr then if I am right it has 12:1 ratio

[mjohnson1]

There are many senior members to explain this but as per my view at temperatures above 410 - 430 deg centigrade the hydrocarbon chain further breakes forming hydrogen and carbon and no fuel at all so keep your temp below 420 and try

This is not true at all. Throughout my 50+ tests i've ran mine from 450-470C as i've found fuel yields to be the best at those temperatures.

[mjohnson1]

i want your help really

i put my plastic with bentonit calcuime 10%
in oven 480 degree for 4 hours with pipe to get the vapor but i get nothing at all ???

can any one tells me where is the wrong ????

Are you running it at 480 Celsius?

Are you monitoring the temperature inside the retort with a thermocouple? Controlling the outside oven temperature is not good enough.

Have you tested it for leaks?

Are there cold spots? Cold areas could cause waxes to form leaving you with a blockage.

If you can provide us with several pictures of your setup then you will get better advice.

[Col]

cleaning fuel and water separation methods

Col, good find with the kerosene! ... Start with oils, and the cleaner and lighter viscosity the better.
Perhaps hop over to BBDs' forum for lots of discussion, ideas, points of view, etc on blending.

I have heard that material suspended in WMO will fall out easier if the WMO is dosed with a bit of solvent like kero. I guess that makes sense simply on the basis of a change in the viscosity of the WMO. So cleaning up the WMO will be easier once blended with kero to match viscosity of diesel. So blend first, then clean up the final fuel? Used hydraulic oil is suitable I suppose?

What is the best way to get rid of water content? My kero source will have some water in it. I don't really want to heat it to 110C to boil out the water if I don't have to, don't get me wrong, I know I've scored here and am happy to work to get a good final product but in terms of conserving fuel and labour would it be better to drain free water then drip it through some absorbent material like the stuff some of the veggie oil guys use? Is it just the same as the stuff used for plant water retaining gel / crystals or kitty wee crystals? Water block filters will absorb water and expand to the point of blocking the filter, not letting any more fluid pass until you change out the cartridge. But that can be expensive. I've seen some other polymer crystals that seem to absorb anything that is not hydrocarbon-based - Bluegrass Fuel Systems, LLC - The FP Filtration Media I figure it could only be beneficial to have such an absorbent and if you separate out the majority of water before passing the fuel through this polymer it appears to have a long life / high absorbing capacity. Are the plant crystals or kitty wee crystals safe to run fuel through? the mystery polymer crystals could be good to turn acidic fuel into good fuel, as the website demonstrates its capacity to absorb acids etc.
Anyone have any comments?
Thanks
Col

[Col]

HCl converted to AlCl3

I'm sure it was Heartburn that suggested it but I can't find the exact post for it. Suggested putting aluminium in the fuel condenser so if there is any HCl it will produce AlCl3 which is heavier than fuel and has a boiling point of 120C. So it will collect in the condensers cooler than 120C and settle to the bottom for draining off and filtering out. Caution was that any AlCl3 which is not in a water solution will react with water and make more HCL until the solution is balanced.

Water will also collect in any condenser cooler than 120C. Obviously the water will also settle to the bottom - the same place as the AlCl3 - so, we will have the reaction Heartburn mentioned - producing more HCl, exactly what we were trying to avoid by adding aluminium in the first place. My question is - is there any point putting the aluminium in the system if we just end up with HCl again downstream? I guess it would mitigate the corrosion damage to the system between the aluminium location and the water / HCl collection point? Does the presence of HCl in the condenser vessel cooler than 120C pose a significant risk of system corrosion or toxic by-product formation? If so, should we make that condenser out of stainless steel to deter corrosion?

Thanks
Col

[Excalibur]

Thank you dear friend for promptly upgrading the blog , good implimentation of ideas , have you tested the device practically .

What may be the ideal volume ratio of reactor and draw back arrestor . In your case volume of reactor is 50 Ltr while the yellow cylinder seems to be 4Ltr then if I am right it has 12:1 ratio

I wonder if you have misunderstood the principle? The volume of the yellow cylinder only need exceed the effective volume of water that the red bubbler has. See this earlier post where I talk about the principle, then in the following post, Imakebiodiesel helpfully shows an amended schematic illustration. Note, the difference in the earlier illustration of post# 2509.

Hope this clarifies it for you

[Excalibur]

I have heard that material suspended in WMO will fall out easier if the WMO is dosed with a bit of solvent like kero. I guess that makes sense simply on the basis of a change in the viscosity of the WMO. So cleaning up the WMO will be easier once blended with kero to match viscosity of diesel. So blend first, then clean up the final fuel? Used hydraulic oil is suitable I suppose?

What is the best way to get rid of water content? My kero source will have some water in it. I don't really want to heat it to 110C to boil out the water if I don't have to, don't get me wrong, I know I've scored here and am happy to work to get a good final product but in terms of conserving fuel and labour would it be better to drain free water then drip it through some absorbent material like the stuff some of the veggie oil guys use? Is it just the same as the stuff used for plant water retaining gel / crystals or kitty wee crystals? Water block filters will absorb water and expand to the point of blocking the filter, not letting any more fluid pass until you change out the cartridge. But that can be expensive. I've seen some other polymer crystals that seem to absorb anything that is not hydrocarbon-based - Bluegrass Fuel Systems, LLC - The FP Filtration Media I figure it could only be beneficial to have such an absorbent and if you separate out the majority of water before passing the fuel through this polymer it appears to have a long life / high absorbing capacity. Are the plant crystals or kitty wee crystals safe to run fuel through? the mystery polymer crystals could be good to turn acidic fuel into good fuel, as the website demonstrates its capacity to absorb acids etc.
Anyone have any comments?
Thanks
Col

Yes, blend first, then centrifuge/filter. Yes, hydraulic oil is one of the best. I tested some crystals for water removal in vege oil with good results else centrifuging could work well enough. I have made a simple centrifuge, view it on my blog pages.
I suggest we continue chatting on the BBD forum as we are straying too far away from the topic of this thread. I have some ideas which you are welcome to pick over.

[Excalibur]

i want your help really

i put my plastic with bentonit calcuime 10%
in oven 480 degree for 4 hours with pipe to get the vapor but i get nothing at all ???

can any one tells me where is the wrong ????

There could be multiple things wrong.
Please post up some good, clear pictures of your set up, including temperature monitoring equipment, pipework and any reflux condenser.

[Col]

Scrubbers

I have just finished constructing my latest scrubber for my new reactor. It consists if 3 x 20litre bubblers in series.
The first contains plain water and has a ph meter built in to detect acidification. This should deal will HCl and possibly HFl gas.
The second is a solution of potassium hydroxide which should neutralize any acidic gas.
The third is a solution of sodium hypochlorite to neutralize any hydrogen cyanide.
.

Hi IMBD

Can you suggest what pH we should initially set the 2nd scrubber at. I expect a pH of 4 would be enough to start with and see how quickly it is neutralised and top up as required.

"At the various nerve agent destruction facilities throughout the United States, 50% sodium hypochlorite is used as a means of removing all traces of nerve agent (HCN) - Wiki" I expect a 50% solution in the 3rd scrubber would do the job, your thoughts?

Thanks
Col

[imakebiodiesel]

I have done away with the plain water scrubber because the KOH solution was doing the same job but better. I add KOH or NaOH until I have a Ph of 12. I check for any change after every batch. So far no change but then I am very careful not to put any wrong plastics into my retort.
I use a 10% solution of sodium hypochlorite and have observed no change in it either. 50% solution will do but might be overkill.