How to turn plastic waste into diesel fuel cheaply

[lowriderzzz]

do you think my reflux column is too large

I've just made my reflux column with removable cap for my experimental 8 litters batch unit, but I'm thinking the length of the whole column is too large.

How do you think ?

Its currently 117 cm with the cap and only the column is 1 meter. And also 5,6 cm in diameter.

[mjohnson1]

lowriderzzz

Yes in my opinion your reflux is too tall given the size of your retort. I would suggest a 25cm-50cm reflux length. Make sure you pack it with stainless wool or something similar while also making sure air can pass through and it isn't clogged.


With a reflux 100 cm long you'd either need an external heat source or a much larger retort that is capable of generating a lot of pyrolysis vapors.

[lowriderzzz]

lowriderzzz

Yes in my opinion your reflux is too tall given the size of your retort. I would suggest a 25cm-50cm reflux length. Make sure you pack it with stainless wool or something similar while also making sure air can pass through and it isn't clogged.


With a reflux 100 cm long you'd either need an external heat source or a much larger retort that is capable of generating a lot of pyrolysis vapors.

I understand thank you for your comment. I initially plan to pack it with mixture of perilite, zeolite and broken pottery.

Do you think if I will need external heating for the reflux if I cut it in half lets say? Or if its less.

What temperature should I maintain on it if I want to create diesel ?

[ekapup]

Jetijs's Avatar Jetijs

hey Jetijs's Avatar
Jetijs I am a big fan of this thank you by the way!! i was just wondering whats on the top of the barrel the black rim looking part whats it called and where can i find a cage like that size .

[Mechanical Enginerd]

Welcome Mechanical Enginerd.
Thanks for making the effort in the marathon read to post 705. Forum members appreciate it. This project is a joint effort with many contributors sharing a vast wealth of knowledge and experience.

I'm interested in the PLC approach to plant management as I've just put together an Arduino microcontroller set up for gas control from thermocouple signal in the retort of my latest prototype. The plan is to use non-condensable and surplus gases as heat for the retort.

Please tell us more. What would a basic PLC cost and how difficult is the programming?

I must confess I have not played with Arduino products at all and should probably investigate this avenue. Or RaspPi for that matter.

The particular PLC's I use on a regular basis can be found here along with all data relating to them. They are fairly inexpensive and thus far I have had no issues getting them to function. Additionally, touch screen displays can be integrated to the PLC to display real time values for whichever parameters you decide to set up. The display also allows the programming of manual controls (for doing sanity checks on code and manual fine tune adjustments to logic parameters instead of having to always have a PC connected to the PLC).

These particular PLC's have expansion slots for analog and digital I/O's discrete I/O's networking modules and other things. See the website for more details.

As pertains to coding. The language used for coding PLC's is ladder logic. It is extremely rudimentary from a language aspect but with that goes simplicity of learning. I spent about a week studying the manuals and some simple ladder logic programs and had a fairly firm grasp on programming.

I hope this helps and I'm continuing to read through the posts.

Has any discussion been had regarding the process of "Thermal Depolymerization" - it is essentially the artificial manufacture of crude from organic compounds by mimicking conditions necessary to produce crude in nature (i.e. High Press., High Temp, No/min O2) You can wikipedia a decent article on the subject.

Thanks

[mjohnson1]

I understand thank you for your comment. I initially plan to pack it with mixture of perilite, zeolite and broken pottery.

Do you think if I will need external heating for the reflux if I cut it in half lets say? Or if its less.

What temperature should I maintain on it if I want to create diesel ?

I think you would want some external heating. I personally don't run a reflux because my catalyst gives me no waxes and im still working on breaking the 90% conversion to liquid mark.

I use one of these - Amico AC 110V 500W 8 x 120mm Heating Element Mould Cartridge Heater - Amazon.com

These are the thermocouples I use to monitor the temperature-
Amazon.com: Amico K Type Nylon Braided 800C 6mm Screw Thermocouple Temperature Sensor 1M 3.3Ft: Home Improvement

I welded a structure to house this because it gets red hot and any of my fiberglass insulation will melt if it touches it.


For the temperature of the reflux for diesel search around in this thread.

I would suggest using 20% of the mass of your plastic as catalyst. Example - 1kg of plastic = 200grams catalyst. For your catalyst, use a small amount of zeolite and use the pottery/perlite for the rest of it. The smaller the size of the particles of the catalyst the better. I've tried all of those catalysts you mentioned and i'd expect you to get a conversion rate of ~75% into liquid fuel by mass.

[mortimer.dan]

Is anyone using the plastic fuel in an engine?

I recently posted a question about the quality of the diesel produced and received an answer from IMBD

Quote
The diesel is a different matter. If the diesel fraction can be confined to only C15 - C20 it should work well as a fuel. This is all very well in theory but in practice is difficult to do. Too much >C20 will produces waxes which will block filters and cause difficult starting. Too much <C15 will reduce lubrication and cause damage to the injection system and injectors.

Does anyone know of a test to work out the C rating of the produced fuel?

Has anyone tried blending plastic diesel with regular gas station diesel?

My thoughts (hopes) are that blending with new diesel will produce a more stable fuel that wont sludge up or damage engines due to lack of lubrication.

Any thoughts on how to get the diesel within a specific range and or experience of using this fuel would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

[Mechanical Enginerd]

I recently posted a question about the quality of the diesel produced ahttp://www.astm.org/Standards/D6866.htmd received an answer from IMBD

Quote
The diesel is a different matter. If the diesel fraction can be confined to only C15 - C20 it should work well as a fuel. This is all very well in theory but in practice is difficult to do. Too much >C20 will produces waxes which will block filters and cause difficult starting. Too much <C15 will reduce lubrication and cause damage to the injection system and injectors.

Does anyone know of a test to work out the C rating of the produced fuel?

Has anyone tried blending plastic diesel with regular gas station diesel?

My thoughts (hopes) are that blending with new diesel will produce a more stable fuel that wont sludge up or damage engines due to lack of lubrication.

Any thoughts on how to get the diesel within a specific range and or experience of using this fuel would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Per ASTM send it in to a lab for mass spectrometry analysis to determine carbon to hydrogen ratio.

[mjohnson1]

I recently posted a question about the quality of the diesel produced and received an answer from IMBD

Quote
The diesel is a different matter. If the diesel fraction can be confined to only C15 - C20 it should work well as a fuel. This is all very well in theory but in practice is difficult to do. Too much >C20 will produces waxes which will block filters and cause difficult starting. Too much <C15 will reduce lubrication and cause damage to the injection system and injectors.

Does anyone know of a test to work out the C rating of the produced fuel?

Has anyone tried blending plastic diesel with regular gas station diesel?

My thoughts (hopes) are that blending with new diesel will produce a more stable fuel that wont sludge up or damage engines due to lack of lubrication.

Any thoughts on how to get the diesel within a specific range and or experience of using this fuel would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

google - hydrocarbon chain boiling point

Set up a rig to boil the fuel off safely. good ventilation, respirator, etc

As you go higher up the carbon chain the boiling point increases.

[lowriderzzz]

I think you would want some external heating. I personally don't run a reflux because my catalyst gives me no waxes and im still working on breaking the 90% conversion to liquid mark.

I use one of these - Amico AC 110V 500W 8 x 120mm Heating Element Mould Cartridge Heater - Amazon.com

These are the thermocouples I use to monitor the temperature-
Amazon.com: Amico K Type Nylon Braided 800C 6mm Screw Thermocouple Temperature Sensor 1M 3.3Ft: Home Improvement

I welded a structure to house this because it gets red hot and any of my fiberglass insulation will melt if it touches it.


For the temperature of the reflux for diesel search around in this thread.

I would suggest using 20% of the mass of your plastic as catalyst. Example - 1kg of plastic = 200grams catalyst. For your catalyst, use a small amount of zeolite and use the pottery/perlite for the rest of it. The smaller the size of the particles of the catalyst the better. I've tried all of those catalysts you mentioned and i'd expect you to get a conversion rate of ~75% into liquid fuel by mass.

Thanks once more. I never thought about the ratio catalyst/feedstock. You don't have a reflux column so you put your zeolite and pottery strait in the retort ?

Do you have and are you willing to post/send some picture regarding the mounting of the Thermocouple Temperature Sensor and the Mould Cartridge Heater ?

What device you use to actually see the indicated temperature ? Do you use PID controler with screen or simple electronic thermometer? In other words where do these sensors get plugged ?


Cheers

[Excalibur]

I must confess I have not played with Arduino products at all and should probably investigate this avenue. Or RaspPi for that matter.

The particular PLC's I use on a regular basis can be found here along with all data relating to them. They are fairly inexpensive and thus far I have had no issues getting them to function. Additionally, touch screen displays can be integrated to the PLC to display real time values for whichever parameters you decide to set up. The display also allows the programming of manual controls (for doing sanity checks on code and manual fine tune adjustments to logic parameters instead of having to always have a PC connected to the PLC).

These particular PLC's have expansion slots for analog and digital I/O's discrete I/O's networking modules and other things. See the website for more details.

As pertains to coding. The language used for coding PLC's is ladder logic. It is extremely rudimentary from a language aspect but with that goes simplicity of learning. I spent about a week studying the manuals and some simple ladder logic programs and had a fairly firm grasp on programming.

I hope this helps and I'm continuing to read through the posts.

Has any discussion been had regarding the process of "Thermal Depolymerization" - it is essentially the artificial manufacture of crude from organic compounds by mimicking conditions necessary to produce crude in nature (i.e. High Press., High Temp, No/min O2) You can wikipedia a decent article on the subject.

Thanks for the link and pointers. By comparison, I've had nothing to do with PLC's though they are common in the factories I have worked at. It would be hard to beat Arduino for price. I bought a Mega 2650 for US$21 landed off HongKong Ebay. The sheer affordability has transformed the DIY microcontroller scene. However, price isn't everything and I'm sure the PLC would have some decided advantages.
It took me all of a week to learn the basics with only online manuals and forums. My Arduino PID project is on my blog pages, link below.

There was some discussion about thermal depolymerization I seem to recall a couple of months ago. No doubt you'll get to it.

[Excalibur]

I've just made my reflux column with removable cap for my experimental 8 litters batch unit, but I'm thinking the length of the whole column is too large.

How do you think ?

Its currently 117 cm with the cap and only the column is 1 meter. And also 5,6 cm in diameter.

I agree with mj1, the reflux is most likely too tall. If it was me, I'd use Heat wrap. Fire up the retort with heat wrap on the reflux, then only remove enough to maintain the temperature.

[lowriderzzz]

I agree with mj1, the reflux is most likely too tall. If it was me, I'd use Heat wrap. Fire up the retort with heat wrap on the reflux, then only remove enough to maintain the temperature.

This is good idea.

[fibuslitero]

Hi:
Yes, 20% PS and 80% PP/PE, this way fuel is almost perfect

you mean 20% PS and 80% PP or PE. That is still acceptable since I have plenty PS garbage around.

[mjohnson1]

Thanks once more. I never thought about the ratio catalyst/feedstock. You don't have a reflux column so you put your zeolite and pottery strait in the retort ?

Do you have and are you willing to post/send some picture regarding the mounting of the Thermocouple Temperature Sensor and the Mould Cartridge Heater ?

What device you use to actually see the indicated temperature ? Do you use PID controler with screen or simple electronic thermometer? In other words where do these sensors get plugged ?


Cheers

For the thermocouple drill a hole slightly larger than the thermocouple and weld it to the pipe. This will give you an airtight seal.

Make sure you're running low heat when welding near the center part and take breaks to allow it to cool.

I've tried drilling/tapping but there's still leaks due to the way the center of the thermocouple is able to slide.

Amazon.com: IMAGEŽ 25A SSR-25DA Solid State Relay with Heat Sink+ Manual/ Auto-tuning PID Temperature Controller SNR: Home Improvement

That's the PID/ssr I purchased.

For the mould cartridge heater just weld some half inch steel plate into a frame around it to dissipate the heat into your rig. The idea is you're creating a sort of heat sink because these things get red hot real quick.