How to turn plastic waste into diesel fuel cheaply

[dippy909]

Excalibur
Im going to Insulate the first Condensor and see if i can get a Thermocouple on it to check the Temperature.
Also making my Condensor from Air cooled to Water cooled.
Regarding Condensors, would be advantageous to have a larger Diameter Condensor to give the Vapours more time/surface area to condense. At the moment im using just a 4 inch pipe.
planning to install sight glasses soon.

Thankyou
Also Beyond Biodiesal mentioned using iron wool, would it also be a good idea to put Wool into the Condensor to hep the vapour condense?

[Excalibur]

Excalibur
Im going to Insulate the first Condensor and see if i can get a Thermocouple on it to check the Temperature.
Also making my Condensor from Air cooled to Water cooled.
Regarding Condensors, would be advantageous to have a larger Diameter Condensor to give the Vapours more time/surface area to condense. At the moment im using just a 4 inch pipe.
planning to install sight glasses soon.

Thankyou
Also Beyond Biodiesal mentioned using iron wool, would it also be a good idea to put Wool into the Condensor to hep the vapour condense?

I made a mistake with mooting the possibility of limestone in the bubbler water. We were talking about getting the smell out of the fuel so it can't be done via the bubbler. Sorry, a bit of brain-fade on my part trying to post late at night!
No, the fuel would need to be processed after it was removed from the condenser. Perhaps a small quantity of fuel could simply be soaked in limestone or larger amounts could be slowly pumped through a vessel containing the limestone. The man with that Shell petroleum book is due to visit when I run my retort next so I'm planning to ask for another look.

The condenser ideas might just work. Keep trying things till you find something that works. Initially it's more about proving the concept, later more important is liters per hour.
Yes a temperature sensor for the diesel vessel is an excellent investment. I bought some cheap 12v probes with LCD to 150*C for about US$7 with LCD.
Temperature Meter 50℃～150℃ Blue LCD with Probe | eBay
I'm aiming for 80*C so well within their scope.

Yep, you'll love the sight glasses. Not only can you see the flow, but any boil-over can be seen as well.

The steel wool idea in condensers should effectively increase the surface area so I think it will work in your favor.

Vermiculite and perlite would be one of the better "fill" insulators. It's maybe a bit pricy but it doesn't burn and good to 1200*C (from memory) so maybe consider it a safety feature.

[Excalibur]

Thks Beyond,If i increase heat/temp to 480/500*c then i am getting a parrafin wax on cooling.Want to avoid this happening.I do have a pressure gauge on the system and never get higher than half a bar.I will definitley be putting a further cooling condenser in line and also doing away with right angle connections in the gaseous stage. My main reason for improving flow is because a few local farmers want to buy the unit and they need a higher production rate to meet their demands.

At those temperatures, you'll likely be experiencing boil-over so some uncracked fuel will be exiting downstream. Earlier on, Imakebiodiesel discovered that relatively small amounts of semi-cracked plastic ruined a large amount of diesel by making the lot turn to wax.

I recommend monitoring the reflux temps and adjust to suit your exact conditions.

[rozier56]

Thk's Excalibur, i will monitor the reflux better.yes it seems that the wax seems to have a tendency to "seed" the product,same as sugar does,which is my chemical background.

[Beyond Biodiesel]

Excalibur
Also Beyond Biodiesal mentioned using iron wool, would it also be a good idea to put Wool into the Condensor to hep the vapour condense?

My condenser traps are filled with steel wool to give surface are for the vapors to precipitate out on. However, my condenser traps are not much larger than the maximum volume possible that could condense there. I start with a 5 gallon (20L) retort for distilling WMO, so each of my condensers is 5 gallon (20L).

The retort is also full of course steal wool. The steel wool there acts as boiling chips to equalize the temperature in the boiler, as well as refluxing material.

[dippy909]

I'v modified my Condensors with Steel wool inserted inside. To see if it helps Condensation. Will check on yield this week.

I have a question regarding burners. I have been using a simple round Gas burner aided with a weak blower.

Would a Venturi type burner give a better flame and heat? As i have been struggling to get the Retort heat above 380 C .

Last Question, has anybody made a Fractionating column? how would they work,any advantage over the seperate condensors? I'v seen them discussed in the forum but does anybody have a diagram/design of one?

Thankyou

[Excalibur]

I'v modified my Condensors with Steel wool inserted inside. To see if it helps Condensation. Will check on yield this week.

I have a question regarding burners. I have been using a simple round Gas burner aided with a weak blower.

Would a Venturi type burner give a better flame and heat? As i have been struggling to get the Retort heat above 380 C .

Last Question, has anybody made a Fractionating column? how would they work,any advantage over the seperate condensors? I'v seen them discussed in the forum but does anybody have a diagram/design of one?

The issue with condensers that I had earlier on was I struggled to keep the temperature low enough. With all the heat carried by the vapor stream, there wasn't enough heat exchanging going on to keep it cool.

About the burner. I believe I'm right in saying that even a simple gas ring has a venturi
Also a regular lpg gas torch uses the principle. Have you seen a burner that looks promising?

Would increasing gas pressure or orifice size help? Here's a good BTU chart to orifice size

BTW. is there a flue stack installed for the burner?

[Beyond Biodiesel]

Last Question, has anybody made a Fractionating column? how would they work,any advantage over the seperate condensors? I'v seen them discussed in the forum but does anybody have a diagram/design of one?

Thankyou

I built several distillation columns of various sizes out of glass ware up to 2 stories tall doing post graduate research at Chevron. There are advantages to the column, primarily in reducing foot print, and heat losses, and as Excalibur pointed out, he had more trouble dumping excess heat from his vapor stream, than containing it.

The significant advantage that a horizontal fractionation system has for the DIY is it is very easy to implement and does not require a 40 foot tower, which is a very expensive thing to build in one's backyard, and dangerous to clamber about on for service.

However, if you are going commercial, then real estate is expensive as well, so a tower might be a good trade off.

The next iteration of my pyrolysis unit will be to do both up and out. I plan to fold my horizontal design in half so that, instead of being 2 feet (.6m) wide, 2 feet (.6m) tall and 16 feet (9m) long it will be 2 feet (.6m) wide, 4 feet tall (1.2m) and 8 feet (4.5M) long. Later I might fold it again to make it a 4 foot (1.2m) cube. At that point it will fit on a standard 4 foot (1.2m) pallet and could be shipped anywhere.

[Excalibur]

There are advantages to the column, primarily in reducing foot print, and heat losses, and as Excalibur pointed out, he had more trouble dumping excess heat from his vapor stream, than containing it.
.

Earlier on I had to dump heat in whatever way I could. Typically I found myself in a position of having to bleed away the heat part way through a run. So it was a case of starting out, not knowing what to expect, then having to adapt on the fly. Now I'm recovering the heat by exchanging it onto the incoming feedstock. This is one of the steps I use to economize and reduce heat waste.

The significant advantage that a horizontal fractionation system has for the DIY is it is very easy to implement and does not require a 40 foot tower, which is a very expensive thing to build in one's backyard, and dangerous to clamber about on for service.
.

There's lots to like about fractionating columns. Step by step with the basics first One of the best Youtube fractionating column

The next iteration of my pyrolysis unit will be to do both up and out. I plan to fold my horizontal design in half so that, instead of being 2 feet (.6m) wide, 2 feet (.6m) tall and 16 feet (9m) long it will be 2 feet (.6m) wide, 4 feet tall (1.2m) and 8 feet (4.5M) long. Later I might fold it again to make it a 4 foot (1.2m) cube. At that point it will fit on a standard 4 foot (1.2m) pallet and could be shipped anywhere.

Taking the unit on site to not only where the raw material is but also where the finished product is required is a great idea.
Brainstorming recently talk arose about the possibility of (20')containerizing my Orion retort refinery for shipping. The 20' container could be shipped anywhere there was a need or perhaps every remote village could build one.
Obviously it will need more work before it can lose its' prototype status.
Lucky that dreams are free

[Beyond Biodiesel]

Thanks, kedigen for the useful links. My response seems to have been deleted by the moderator.

Earlier on I had to dump heat in whatever way I could. Typically I found myself in a position of having to bleed away the heat part way through a run. So it was a case of starting out, not knowing what to expect, then having to adapt on the fly. Now I'm recovering the heat by exchanging it onto the incoming feedstock. This is one of the steps I use to economize and reduce heat waste.

Recylcing heat this way sounds useful. I found early on that HCL was a distinct possibility in distilling WMO due to the presence of TCE contamination use a common auto shop solvent, so my solution for it was using my cooling water as the feed for the bubbler to keep it from getting saturated with HCL.

There's lots to like about fractionating columns. Step by step with the basics first One of the best Youtube fractionating column

I remember that video. I found it very instructive on fractionation.

Taking the unit on site to not only where the raw material is but also where the finished product is required is a great idea.
Brainstorming recently talk arose about the possibility of (20')containerizing my Orion retort refinery for shipping. The 20' container could be shipped anywhere there was a need or perhaps every remote village could build one.
Obviously it will need more work before it can lose its' prototype status.
Lucky that dreams are free

Yes, making the unit portable so that it can be taken to the source point, or point of use is a good idea, that has been my goal all along. Putting it in a 20' container, if your unit is that big, is a good idea. Mine looks like it is going to be a 4 foot cube, so putting it on a pallet makes it fit the shipping stream much better, and it will have the same capacity as yours when I am done.

[Babataku]

2nd Generation Pyro Plant

Hi All,

I am busy building a new unit to process waste plastics. i have been processing WMO for a while and need to try plastics on a more bigger and commercial scale. Plastic waste, i can get at a cheaper price.

The unit will be 500Ltr tank capacity, fired by a diesel burner. i will have a reflux column on top heated to about 300deg celc, and i will have one water cooled condenser to about 80deg celc, as i only want fuel to use in diesel boiler. so quality should be OK. from there i will have a 25ltr Bubbler/flame arrest tank and then all excess gas will be burner off.

My challenge is how to maximize the tank capacity..im thinking of heating maybe 100Ltrs of WMO to about 150deg celc hold it there, and then start adding the waste plastic chunks which should melt instantly at those temps, im guessing i can add about 250Kg of waste plastic chunks and then there after i will raise the temp to 400deg celc. My assumption is based on plastic density of 1kg:1.4Ltrs so in total after melting i will have about 450Ltr of molten plastic & WMO mix...which should in turn give me about 340Ltrs of distillate. i have thought of any catalyst to use.

Has anyone tried this method?? Any comments? Also if i use PP what quality can i expect in terms of color and storage issues, can i store it for 30 or more days without any additives?

i will be posting pictures soon.

[Excalibur]

Sounds good. The WMO/molten plastic blend would be able to be moved with some kind of slurry pump that's rated for those temperatures. A small reservoir of hot WMO could used to flush as required. Just bouncing ideas around...

[Beyond Biodiesel]

Hi All,

I am busy building a new unit to process waste plastics. i have been processing WMO for a while and need to try plastics on a more bigger and commercial scale. Plastic waste, i can get at a cheaper price.

The unit will be 500Ltr tank capacity, fired by a diesel burner. i will have a reflux column on top heated to about 300deg celc, and i will have one water cooled condenser to about 80deg celc, as i only want fuel to use in diesel boiler. so quality should be OK. from there i will have a 25ltr Bubbler/flame arrest tank and then all excess gas will be burner off.

My challenge is how to maximize the tank capacity..im thinking of heating maybe 100Ltrs of WMO to about 150deg celc hold it there, and then start adding the waste plastic chunks which should melt instantly at those temps, im guessing i can add about 250Kg of waste plastic chunks and then there after i will raise the temp to 400deg celc. My assumption is based on plastic density of 1kg:1.4Ltrs so in total after melting i will have about 450Ltr of molten plastic & WMO mix...which should in turn give me about 340Ltrs of distillate. i have thought of any catalyst to use.

Has anyone tried this method?? Any comments?

I had thought of doing the same thing, and using Excalibur's idea of combining this method with continuous feed might be the solution to the problem of continuous feed plastic pyrolysis.

Also if i use PP what quality can i expect in terms of color and storage issues, can i store it for 30 or more days without any additives?

i will be posting pictures soon.

Cracked fuels are known for polymerization, so storage life is not likely to be good for the fuel.

Color is a function of how well your pyrolysis unit is designed, because improved color has to do with reducing boil-over.

[Babataku]

I had thought of doing the same thing, and using Excalibur's idea of combining this method with continuous feed might be the solution to the problem of continuous feed plastic pyrolysis.



Cracked fuels are known for polymerization, so storage life is not likely to be good for the fuel.

Color is a function of how well your pyrolysis unit is designed, because improved color has to do with reducing boil-over.

Thanks for the replies...A few more questions though:

1. What catalyst can i use to avoid polymerization? Clay? Ash from fire place?? Kitty Litter? i have these readily available and at reasonable price? i want to keep the produced fuel stored for maximum of 20 - 30 days only
2. From my reading, PP derived fuel is non waxing whilst PE turns into Wax after production? i have option of getting waste PP or PE, which is better?

All i want is to produce a gold clear color fuel which can be kept for 20 -30 days max. it will be used to fire a diesel boiler only.

[Excalibur]

2. From my reading, PP derived fuel is non waxing whilst PE turns into Wax after production? i have option of getting waste PP or PE, which is better?
.

If PE or any plastic is turning to wax, then it's not getting refluxed sufficiently and subsequently not cracked enough. Compared to WMO you'd need to "forcibly crack it down much harder". To cure waxing, adjust reflux temperature downward.

Looking forward to some photos...