How to turn plastic waste into diesel fuel cheaply

[Excalibur]

thanks excalibur maybe tempreture proplem i will check my tempretures next time.are this probs good?.l meant i dont want to use blind hole.thanks
RTD PT100-K Temperature Sensor 2m Cable Stainless Probe 100mm 2 Wires T5 | eBay

I agree with BB. Use a k-type thermocouple for the retort and reflux. My first one I bought: one like this unit on ebay. It worked well. Has two probes.

Samott, what temperatures were the retort and reflux? The reflux temperature may be too high.

[Samott]

I don’t know temperature, because mensuration was bed, retort is 240 C and reflux 70 C. I will buy an athor thermometer.
Thank you the answers.

[fox32]

Hello guys, here are the results from my first run, took a while, and it started to drip fuel when i had the courage to turn up the burner(still testing the welds and connections, it gave me the creeps).

Also, for anyone else who is using GPL(gas) don't turn on the gas without flame,nor for a little time, it will acumulate on the flue stack, and make a loud terrifing flashbang-like sound, and blow the flue away. Happened to me.

I only had one thermomether, with a thermocouple exactly like the one from Excalibur's post above, and this is my problem, how do you managed to insert that into the reactor, i put it inside a pipe welded into the reactor, but this way i get the temperature of that steel pipe, not directly of the vapours inside, and i can't control the process well.
I was also thinking to buy that type oh temperature sensor the one with screw, and 2 m long cable, but i can't find any that would resist more than 400c, nor on aliexpress,dhl or ebay. Also why you dismiss that kind of thermic probe, is not reliable?
I really want some tipe of probe that i can screw into the reactor etc.


When this was produced my thermomether read 340 c(reactor), but i think that the temperature inside the reactor was greater.

I also noticed 3 different layers of distilate so my reaflux may not work good. I weighted 100 ml from top layer and got 80 grams.
All the best!


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[jonathan]

pyrolysis oil

thanks excalibur l do another test today l test my tempretures with meter like gun my lower side of retort was 316 degrees c and upper side of reflux 90 degrees c so l have tempreture proplem l bye tempreture props

[Excalibur]

Hello guys, here are the results from my first run, took a while, and it started to drip fuel when i had the courage to turn up the burner(still testing the welds and connections, it gave me the creeps).

Also, for anyone else who is using GPL(gas) don't turn on the gas without flame,nor for a little time, it will acumulate on the flue stack, and make a loud terrifing flashbang-like sound, and blow the flue away. Happened to me.

I only had one thermomether, with a thermocouple exactly like the one from Excalibur's post above, and this is my problem, how do you managed to insert that into the reactor, i put it inside a pipe welded into the reactor, but this way i get the temperature of that steel pipe, not directly of the vapours inside, and i can't control the process well.
I was also thinking to buy that type oh temperature sensor the one with screw, and 2 m long cable, but i can't find any that would resist more than 400c, nor on aliexpress,dhl or ebay. Also why you dismiss that kind of thermic probe, is not reliable?
I really want some tipe of probe that i can screw into the reactor etc.


When this was produced my thermomether read 340 c(reactor), but i think that the temperature inside the reactor was greater.

I also noticed 3 different layers of distilate so my reaflux may not work good. I weighted 100 ml from top layer and got 80 grams.

Congrats on the first attempt. You got a result. Now you need a few tweaks. All part of the learning process.
Yes, the first time can be "hair raising" when you realize just how much heat has to be applied. Also you begin to appreciate the value of good insulation.
Yes, those gas explosions can give you quite a fright!
Thermocouple probes: I hollow a bolt, drilling from the head end, stopping short of drilling right through. The part of the bolt that protrudes into the chamber has the threads removed and thinned to the desired wall thickness. A copper washer is used to seal. The TC probe uses a fiberglass insulation which breaks down with heat so my long term plan is to get a simple ceramic insert for the bolt. There are two types of TC: grounded and non-grounded. The probe meter in the Ebay link doesn't care which type it uses. Other digital LCD displays like the bright red ones I use, require non-grounded only. This TC on Ebay is K type (EGT), has a good range to 1250°C and is non-grounded so will work on any meter. It might be a good choice.
80grams per 100ml equates to .800SG which is a bit light for diesel. There may be too much refluxing, the system is not up to working temperature or light fractions were boiling off early.
Hope this helps.

thanks excalibur l do another test today l test my tempretures with meter like gun my lower side of retort was 316 degrees c and upper side of reflux 90 degrees c so l have tempreture proplem l bye tempreture props

Temperatures are low. The retort is below cracking temperature so even if some light weight fraction was coming off as vapor, the low reflux temperature would likely recycle it back to the retort. Either you need more heat and/or better insulation. And you really need k-type thermocouple probes on both vessels.
A note about insulation. I was at a scrap metal yard on Friday. I bought some steel pipe. Then I noticed an old boiler. I asked about the kaowool insulation and was told to take it away for free. I got 4 square meters else it would have been dumped. Wear a dust mask if you recycle this kind of thing. It was really dusty!

[Excalibur]

Fox32
Please check, is the bottom layer of distillate, water??

[jonathan]

pyrolysis oil

thanks excalibur when l find that little fuel it was very sunny day so tempreture was higher.l will buy that k-type props and try modified my burner for more heat

[Beyond Biodiesel]

I really want some tipe of probe that i can screw into the reactor etc.

I use compression fitting adapters to insert my TC probes through, which screw into tapered plumbing fittings. See photo below

[fox32]

Thank you Excalibur,for yet another insightfull post! That's the kind of probe i wanted to use, but i had no idea that they are grounded or ungrounded, so you saved me some money. Also, now i can really see that the insulation is really important, i can see a flaw in my reactor design as i don't have enough room and support to insulate the top plate,but i'm working on it. Maybe pour some clay on it.

As for the bottom layer, i'd say it is like some white powder, like chalk, very fine, that is disturbed very easely. it doesn't appear to be any water. It may be some impurities from my condenser(old barrel).

Nice Design BeyondBiodiesel, how deep is the probe going in the reactor, and where did you find them?

[Beyond Biodiesel]

Nice Design BeyondBiodiesel, how deep is the probe going in the reactor, and where did you find them?

I find my thermocouples on eBay. I purchase them to match compression fittings that I can purchase locally.

Most of these type of shielded thermocouples come in metric sizes, but I cannot buy metric compression fittings locally, so I search for the harder to find and more expensive 1/16" (1.6mm) shielded thermocouples. I buy 1/8" National Pipe Thread (tapered fitting) to 1/16" compression adapters, then I drill them out with a 1/16Th drill bit so that the shielded thermocouple can slide through it. There are 1/8" National Pipe Thread (tapered fitting) ports on the lids of the pressure cookers I use for retort and condenser traps.

I am interested in the temperature of the liquid at the bottom of the retort, and each of my condensers, so the I slide the cap and ferrule onto the TC, then slide the TC through the 1/8" National Pipe Thread (tapered fitting) to 1/16" compression adapter down to just an inch (2.5cm) above the bottom of the retort or condenser, then I tighten the nut on the compression fitting.

[knighty]

Hi, Over the last week I've read this thread from start to finish, but I apologise if I'm asking questions which have already been asked, it was a lot of information to take in! I really appreciate all the work you guys have done, all the tiem you've spent posting about it here, and all the help you've given to other people (which helped me too)

I'm thinking of building a system for WMO only (continuous feed system), I'm only interested in the diesel output, I plan to heat electrically (have 415v 3 phase available) but I guess I might as well interoperate gas heating too, to take advantage of the excess gas/vapours

I've read that reactor and retort temperatures should be the same (or close)

what about instead of having one stacked on top of the other, I used a long (say 16foot?) length of 8 inch pipe, used the bottom as the reactor and filled the top with wire wool to work as a retort ?

8inches should be wide enough if it's a continuous system ?

I could pre-heat the oil to about 200'C (or see what works) before it's fed in, to stop it cooling the reactor too much. I could also stop the feed every few hours and check how long it takes the reactor to run out of oil, to give me an idea of the oil level in it and let me adjust the feed rate

for the condenser, I was thinking of making an oil cooled condenser, because I could pre-heat the cooling oil before I ran the system, and then later on cool it as needed....

but I'm also wondering why I can't bubble the vapours from the reactor through the output liquids, if I hold them at the right temperature ?

so I could first bubble through oil held at 150'C
then though diesel held at 120'C
then finally either through whatever at room temperature to catch any liquids, or feed it straight into a burner

I would need the collection vessels to be tall, and to make sure I had small bubbles passing through the liquids, but that shouldn't be too hard ?


I also read that lower temperatures give a better final product, but I don't see many people running under a vacuum...

I could easily use a pump and a venturi to create a good, constant vacuum without much extra work/fuss... is a vacuum a good idea or has it been dismissed for some reason ?


I made a very rough, very basic diagram, just to give a rough idea of what I'm thinking of
imgur: the simple image sharer
(electric heating the full length of the reactor/retort)

[Excalibur]

Way-to-go! You read the forum in a week. That must be some kind of record. Thanks for doing that and helping yourself. (Hint for others to do same). Yes, the systems are complicated so no-one would be expected to achieve success with 1st attempt. Everyones got to start somewhere...

3 phase plus gases for heat. All possible with enough thought. Yeah, why not.

I've read that reactor and retort temperatures should be the same (or close)

If the retort and reflux temperatures were the same, then the 'product out' would be more-or-less the same weight as what went in. Probably you're looking at about a 40- 50°C differential depending on feedstock quality.

8inches should be wide enough if it's a continuous system ?

Yes, absolutely. (Mine happens to be 8").

I could pre-heat the oil to about 200'C (or see what works) before it's fed in, to stop it cooling the reactor too much. I could also stop the feed every few hours and check how long it takes the reactor to run out of oil, to give me an idea of the oil level in it and let me adjust the feed rate

Preheating is a good idea. I suggest a few batch runs 1st, then look at preheat. You'll have enough to worry about without the complication! Knowing how fill or empty the reactor is at any one time is a key part of the puzzle. Currently a good method is needed for level monitoring.

for the condenser, I was thinking of making an oil cooled condenser, because I could pre-heat the cooling oil before I ran the system, and then later on cool it as needed....

My system uses oil heat exchanged against the vapour stream going counter-current. It's proving to be not enough heat exchanged onto ingoing oil but it's a start.

but I'm also wondering why I can't bubble the vapours from the reactor through the output liquids, if I hold them at the right temperature ?

I've seen alcohol stills set up like that. Watch out for liquids being sucked back upstream as the reactor cools after shutdown.

is a vacuum a good idea or has it been dismissed for some reason ?

Pluses and minuses so it has its' place. Refineries used vacuum when they wanted to minimize cracking. They could then distill below cracking temperature which starts at 350°C.

[Beyond Biodiesel]

Hi, Over the last week I've read this thread from start to finish, but I apologise if I'm asking questions which have already been asked, it was a lot of information to take in! I really appreciate all the work you guys have done, all the tiem you've spent posting about it here, and all the help you've given to other people (which helped me too)

Good work, reading the forum helps reduce mistakes.

I'm thinking of building a system for WMO only (continuous feed system),

Yes, some of us are focused on WMO distallation, because we have access to enough to make it work, and 5-gallons (20L) in is almost 5-gallons (20L) out.

I'm only interested in the diesel output,

OK, so how about blending light fractions with heavy fractions to make a middle (diesel) fraction? This practice is called "blending" and I have been doing it successfully for 7 years.

I plan to heat electrically (have 415v 3 phase available)

3 phase power is the ay to go, but it might be more power than you need. How much WMO are you planning on processing per unit time?

but I guess I might as well interoperate gas heating too, to take advantage of the excess gas/vapours

Sounds like a good idea, but difficult to implement. I would be interested in observing how you accomplish it.

I've read that reactor and retort temperatures should be the same (or close)

It depends upon what your object is. If all you want to do is remove dissolved solids from WMO, which is my focus, then cracking is not needed. ON the other hand, if you are interested in cracking all your WMO to diesel, then the first reflux should be lower, as Excalibur does; however, thermal cracking alone takes a lot of energy and thus time.

what about instead of having one stacked on top of the other, I used a long (say 16foot?) length of 8 inch pipe, used the bottom as the reactor and filled the top with wire wool to work as a retort ?

I am not sure if you are talking about it being horizontal or vertical; however, in either case 16ft (4.9m) is a long retort to have to heat. On the other hand, if you gradually increased the heat along the pipe so that at the bottom it was only 100C and at the top it was 425c, then the bottom of your pipe becomes a pre-heater, and the top of the fluid is your retort, with about 3 feet (1m) for your reflux.

8inches should be wide enough if it's a continuous system ?

Sure, it should be fine. It just depends upon your throughput.

I could pre-heat the oil to about 200'C (or see what works) before it's fed in, to stop it cooling the reactor too much.

Seems reasonable

I could also stop the feed every few hours and check how long it takes the reactor to run out of oil, to give me an idea of the oil level in it and let me adjust the feed rate

I believe a continuous feed WMO pyrolysis unit is going to work best by keeping the contents of the retort low, so matching feed to output will be important.

for the condenser, I was thinking of making an oil cooled condenser, because I could pre-heat the cooling oil before I ran the system, and then later on cool it as needed....

It should work, but oil has less heat capacity than water, so you will need to increase the surface area of your heat exchangers.

but I'm also wondering why I can't bubble the vapours from the reactor through the output liquids, if I hold them at the right temperature ?

so I could first bubble through oil held at 150'C
then though diesel held at 120'C
then finally either through whatever at room temperature to catch any liquids, or feed it straight into a burner

This is what the bubble caps do in a commercial refinery. It improves condensation of the vapor stream, and it acts as additional barriers to the migration of oxygen up stream; however, it does not eliminate the need for a water bubbler at the end of your processing system, which acts as a flash-back arrester, oxygen barrier, and most importantly as a toxic gas absorber/neutralizer.

I would need the collection vessels to be tall, and to make sure I had small bubbles passing through the liquids, but that shouldn't be too hard ?

every inch of head increases the upstream pressure, this is why bubble caps are very low profile.

I also read that lower temperatures give a better final product, but I don't see many people running under a vacuum...

I employ vacuum distillation. It works for me, but it reduces cracking while increasing throughput and it is an excellent way to reduce the danger of oxygen migration into the hot zone.

I could easily use a pump and a venturi to create a good, constant vacuum without much extra work/fuss... is a vacuum a good idea or has it been dismissed for some reason ?

I see a number of problems with a venturi to produce a vacuum, most notably, the vacuum one can get from a venturi is not very good, and if you use water to make the venturi, then you will have water migrating up-stream, aside from a venturi representing a profound waste of resources.

I made a very rough, very basic diagram, just to give a rough idea of what I'm thinking of
imgur: the simple image sharer
(electric heating the full length of the reactor/retort)

I do not think tall is going to work, unless you want that first tall pipe/retort to be a fractionation tower.

[jonathan]

pyrolysis proplem

as l say before my retort tempreture was 316 degrees c and reflux 90 degrees c know i open my retort and find about 6 inch like carbon but not solid from 30 litres waste oil. l am asking this because l like to learn.l was thinking because reflux tempreture is to low and waste oil comes out as gas.

[fox32]

Greetings.... So i was surfing mr Excalibur's website(wich i recommend to all), i was looking at the turk design, when i had an ideea. What if we could use the same sistem, but to pulverize wmo (preheted) on a 400c hot plate, or heat exchanger of some sort. I have made a diagram to better explain my ideea. My main concern is that the wmo will jam the injectors, but maybe if is hot enough it will be thin enough. And if the injectors run on turns, the plate will never lose the temperature. Theoretically...schita reactor.jpg