Joule Ringer!

[Allen Burgess]

Video

Here's my new video:


8,2 bulbs - YouTube


I apologise for the poor quality, but you get to see my setup. THE FINAL MEASUREMENT OF THE SINGLE BULB WITH THE 7 BULB CLUSTER WAS 6,600 Lu's. The data shows a 40% increase in efficiency between the single and eight bulb cluster.

@Billixx,

The instrument measurements indicate that the blub cluster behind the clouded glass would be brighter then the one bulb at five times the brightness by a factor of 40%!

[PhysicsProf]

@Peanutbutter -- you assumed incorrectly, but let me clarify:

Peanutbutter:

To first put aside the shown proven calibration variation (10-15Lu/w) between bulbs and just run with the above shown calibration (for all bulbs ever made), we end up with;

5480 Lux x .0793 = 434.5 Lumens (said 550)
434.5 Lumens / 6.018w = 72.2 Lu/W (said 95)

Above is using only Prof's conversion factor and Prof's shown numbers. This calibration was HIGHLY defended, so I assume it's the same. Again, we know calibration varies in favor of daylights; relative to warm white calibration with incandescent or compacts.

I have said (and further it seems rather obvious) that the calibration factor depends on the number of bulbs and will change when more bulbs are used.


Thus, the 0.0793 factor applies only for ONE bulb in this light box. In the vid, I clearly say - and show inside the box - that FOUR bulbs are used! so the calibration factor is NOT .0793 as you assumed.

I could leave it there, but you sort of asked, so I will note here that for four bulbs, I of course did the calibration, and the calibration factor for 4 bulbs in the positions shown is 0.103, so we have:

5480 Lux x 0.103 = 564 Lumens
564 Lumens / 6.018w = 94 Lu/W

I said 95 Lu/W because on run I did before making the vid, I had 5530 lux --> 570 Lumens, and
570 Lumens / 6.018w = 95 Lu/W (rounding).

Note that this small variation (94 or 95) is within the uncertainty (quite small) from run to run -- things are repeatable! Again, that video is here:
95LmPerWatt.AVI - YouTube

Hope this helps!

[Peanutbutter29]

@PhysicsProf
Ty for the clarification. I had thought / hoped you used another calibration, but did not note it anywhere; and thus the improper assumption.
I'm a bit surprised at the change from 1-4 in factor. I've only noted about a 1/4 of that for any combos I've run. Maybe box size is related there, dunno; but shouldn't matter.

I suppose too, it seems the ferrite rod is helping enough that possibly Lynxsteam may wish to include your mod in his suggested design? It has shown improvement in all cases, correct?

Also, if you don't mind. Since I have 3 of these same bulbs, but am still waiting on a 220v step up to arrive. How the heck do you come up with a lumens approximation on 120? I tried basing all of my calibration numbers from all bulbs and only get 45-55 Lumen @ 120v. I am hoping to be able to use the rated 252 lumens when run on 220v; but if not, I cannot see how to establish a lumen for calibration.

Last, since it was rather rude to not include before; Congrats on the higher lu/w!

Thanks
PB

[PhysicsProf]

@PhysicsProf
Ty for the clarification. I had thought / hoped you used another calibration, but did not note it anywhere; and thus the improper assumption.
I'm a bit surprised at the change from 1-4 in factor. I've only noted about a 1/4 of that for any combos I've run. Maybe box size is related there, dunno; but shouldn't matter.

I suppose too, it seems the ferrite rod is helping enough that possibly Lynxsteam may wish to include your mod in his suggested design? It has shown improvement in all cases, correct?

Also, if you don't mind. Since I have 3 of these same bulbs, but am still waiting on a 220v step up to arrive. How the heck do you come up with a lumens approximation on 120? I tried basing all of my calibration numbers from all bulbs and only get 45-55 Lumen @ 120v. I am hoping to be able to use the rated 252 lumens when run on 220v; but if not, I cannot see how to establish a lumen for calibration.

Last, since it was rather rude to not include before; Congrats on the higher lu/w!

Thanks
PB

Ty, PB. Yes, the ferrite rod has helped in all tests so far, with the air-core set-up.

You talk about the "rated 252 lumens when run on 220V" -- BUT why do you trust the Chinese advertisements? I've warned about this before. NONE of the bulbs I've bought from China reach the advertised ratings!

Furthermore on this particular bulb, one ad says 252 lumens, another -- EXACT SAME bulb - says 152 lumens! (nothing on the packaging for these bulbs -- I've purchased from both sources)

So, how are you going to calibrate with that? Are you going to use 252 lumens or 152 lumens, or what??? you tell me!

No, I used AMERICAN-rated bulbs for the calibration (as I have explained before!!)

Gotta run -- but this just posted on you-tube:

Exciting -- but having trouble posting at ou.com; see vid -- here's the text:
Using the Lynxsteam build of the Lasersaber 2.0 SJR again... Lynx asked me to tap the primary at winding 75 (instead of going to the end) AND to lower the voltage to 12.8 V, so that we would be able to run this with a standard 12V battery. I did so -- congratulations Lynxsteam -- this now surpasses 100 Lumens per watt!

The data recorded on this vid show: 385 mA @12.8V = 4.9W (input). The output is 493 x 10 = 4930 Lux.
The calibration factor (to lumens) is 0.103, so we have 4930 X 0.103 = 508 Lumens.
Thus, 508 Lm/4.9W = 104 Lm/W -- excellent progress!

Note: at 12.0 V, I found 102 Lm/W.


Note 2: at 12.8V, without the ferrite rod, I found 75 Lumens per watt -- 104 Lm/W with the ferrite rod. It makes a big difference!

vid: 104LmPerWatt.AVI - YouTube

_______________
I've got some work to do outside now; will be back in a few hours I expect.
Best,
Steve
PPS -- having trouble posting over at ou.com right now...

[Peanutbutter29]

Further, I checked this particular bulb in my light box and got about 90 Lm/W with 120V input AC from the mains (I'd have to review my notes for the exact value); which is good, but no where near 168 Lm/W which the Chinese company advertised!!!

Hrmm, I think you ended up asking me the exact same question I asked you. I asked how what you got for lumens on A/C. I wasn't insinuating anyting; other than how to properly calibrate these.

I went ahead and found where you showed before. Is this correct? I can use this 90 Lu/w (which means 135 Lumens on 120v right?) that you found then; for calibration.

I'm using your recommended box
Your recommended bulb
So, Now I just need your estimated lumen output

I assume I'll use yours, which gives me a calibration factor of .476 with the three bulbs (135x3) / 850 Lux = .476

I suppose if we both use the same starting Lu/W and lumens on 120v; then I could probably test something to see.

Thanks
PB

[Peanutbutter29]

Found it!!

P
First, I finally rec'd a couple of high-efficiency bulbs I'd ordered, and these run at about 1 W using the mains and put out nearly 80 Lumens in the light box -- 80 Lm/W, which is great! So I used this bulb, and immediately the yield with the AIR core SJR-2.0 jumped up to about 40 Lm/ W.

Yay, I found the first report. Scratch above post then for calibration as it was noted to not be exact. This is your first mention of it and pretty exact. So I can use this, TY!

Okay so new calibration is
1 Bulb - 80 Lumens / 290 Lux = .275
2 Bulb - 160 Lumens / 580 Lux = .275
3 Bulb - 240 Lumens / 850 Lux = .282

I'll try the 3 bulbs then on a Radio shack, Using 80 Lumens and 1w off 120v A/C as the bulb reference. I guess this would be the same then, but different factors from boxes (of course).

I'll report back with the findings!
Let me know if I'm incorrect on the lumens you found Prof.
Thanks
PB

[Peanutbutter29]

Results

Tested radio shack. Seems the circuit has a driver chip for dimming though not probably the same. However Bridge Rectifier Cap mod still helps from utilitech vid.

Used PhysicsProf 80 Lumens @120vac for calibration
Super Joule Ringer 2.0 w/ Radio Shack & Foreign 1.5w LED x 3 - YouTube

Thanks

[Herbie687]

Frequency Gain Effect

My second test was conducted in complete darkness, and hence the results should be more reliable. I held the Lux meter sensor directly on the 2 watt LED bulb for all the readings, and shielded the single bulb for measurement.

1 & 8 bulbs: 30,900 Lu/ @ 575ma draw for a single bulb;
6,600 x 8 = 52,800 Lu/ @ 800ma draw for eight bulbs.

Eight 2 watt 120 volt LED'S, and a single bulb lux meter and amp draw comparisons resulted in a gain of 13 lux meter units per milliamp for the total light from the eight bulbs, compared to the measurements for one. One can see at a glimpse that the overall illumination nearly doubles with a tiny power increase of only 25%, when the additional 7 bulb cluster's added.

I think PhysicsProf and I are getting these positive results through the use of low wattage bulbs! My hypothisis involves frequency acting like amperage in the kilohertz range. I believe the additional bulbs generate their extra light from this free source of power!

In "Energy From The Vacuum - Part 15", Walter Rosenthal (An associate and friend of Sparky Sweet) speaks about his experiences in Free Energy and the Sweet VTA. In the video, he speaks about a man Win Lambertson who invented an "energy machine" that produced more light that what you would get from using the power grid. According to Rosenthal, he was using sodium vapor & mercury vapor lamps. The most signficant thing he says in the video is that another man named Toby Groates discovered that Win's system produces more light per watt. He asserts that the light produced is a function of frequency and not power, since the voltage was apparently unchanged.
The same effect is obviously happening in the Joule Ringer. What is not clear however (to me anyhow, not sure who's measured what) is whether or not this is a just a light gain, or is there an increase in power as well?
My hats off to you Allen for your hypothesis. You might be right.
We just have to test it now.

[Allen Burgess]

Incandescent comparisons.

A 60 watt 120 volt incandescent bulb produces 860 Lumens. A 120 would produce 1720. The single 2 watt at 120 watts of power .6 amps x 200 volts, produces over 3000 lumens.

"A 100 watt, 120 volt lamp will produce about 17.1 lumens per watt". The 2 watt LED is producing 25 Lu/w: As follows:

The 2 watt LED is producing over 3000 lumens for the same power a 120 volt incandescent produces 1760.

I thought maybe my last video efficiency factor was a result of wasted power the 2 watt couldn't handle at 200 volts, so I checked the comparison numbers and it looks pretty good for a bulb that cheap. How long the LED bulb will take to burn out is still to be determined.

@Herbie687,

Any with a full function signal generator can run a Khz frequency current through an LED, and see if he can swap increased frequency for lower amperage and sustain bulb brightness. I think this kind of demonstration video would act as a cornerstone of lighting science.

[Herbie687]

A 60 watt 120 volt incandescent bulb produces 860 Lumens. A 120 would produce 1720. The single 2 watt at 120 watts of power .6 amps x 200 volts, produces over 3000 lumens.

"A 100 watt, 120 volt lamp will produce about 17.1 lumens per watt".

Therefore; The two watt LED is producing over 3000 lumens for the same power a 120 volt incandescent produces 1760.

I thought maybe my last video efficiency factor was a result of wasted power the 2 watt couldn't handle at 200 volts, so I checked the comparison numbers and it looks pretty good for a bulb that cheap. How long the LED bulb will take to burn out is still to be determined.

It will probably last longer at 120V, since LEDs have shorter lifespans at higher voltages than what they're recommended for at.

Sorry to confuse you if you saw my last post. I'm alittle tired and misread your analysis.

[Herbie687]

@Herbie687,

Any with a full function signal generator can run a Khz frequency current through an LED, and see if he can swap increased frequency for lower amperage and sustain bulb brightness. I think this kind of demonstration video would act as a cornerstone of lighting science.

I agree. I'm not sure if the LED bulbs are wired so that both halfs of the waveform are sent throught the LEDs, so It would be best to test with an incandesence bulb if the LED bulb allows only half of the waveform.
This is what I want to do if I can do it soon.

[Allen Burgess]

120 volt LED single & multiple power comparisons.

At 120 volts, the Jr 2.0 lights the single bulb at 200 ma with 2450 Lux. The eight bulb cluster draws 300 ma with 450 lux. Divided, then multiplied times
eight equals a ratio of 12 Lux to ma. The single bulb a ratio of 10.25.

Voila, an increase in efficiency with the eight bulbs of around 20%. Half the 40% increase rate measured at twice the voltage!

I wonder how Lidmotor will react to these measurements?

@Herbie,

Can't wait to see your new video!

[100mpg]

At 120 volts, the Jr 2.0 lights the single bulb at 200 ma with 2450 Lux. The eight bulb cluster draws 300 ma with 450 lux. Divided, then multiplied times
eight equals a ratio of 12 Lux to ma. The single bulb a ratio of 10.25.

Voila, an increase in efficiency with the eight bulbs of around 20%. Half the 40% increase rate measured at twice the voltage!

I wonder how Lidmotor will react to these measurements?

@Herbie,

Can't wait to see your new video!

I like those numbers! I have several multi bulb light fixtures in my home including an eight bulb over the mirror in my master bathroom. However I will be using a ecosmart 8.6 watt light bulb so I am assuming I will need to change parts togett it to balance correctly & be as efficient as the circuit you have. Can anyone please explain the math behind balancing the circuit so that the parts won't get hot.

Thanks.

[Harvester]

I don't like saying this, but at this point, you are talking Bedini Basics 101.

Well, already mentioned having done the 1 Ohm test and said "Or do you pick lowest amp draw for highest charge?" as done with the SSG.
The SS SSG seems to be different kind of an animal though.

Some say 60Hz is good, others say you need at least 10KHz.
Others again say 50-200Hz is good and that higher frequency sometimes is not better.
Looking at some normal SSGs, people use 16 magnets and have ~142rpm.
Then you have others who swear by 8 magnets only - guess the diameter also plays a role.

Then you have people using too much input current on their SS SSG which apparently reduces it to a normal charger - around 4A if I remember correctly.
Then you have people using 350mA input on their SS SSG, which charges really quickly, but the charge is only a fluffy charge.
Then you have people using 19V input source to charge 12V batteries.
My circuit already generates 650V. Do I really need more?

I have read so much in so many different threads, that - at the moment - I have no idea what is best.

PS. Have used a 19V power supply, and the charge is a lot better at 1A than with 12V input.

I did take the schematic for the SS SSG from this thread, but might not be the right one to discuss this in.
Will try and find the right one.
Thanks for all your help.

[SkyWatcher]

Hi folks, Hi harvester, lately I've been using a 555 timer and a mosfet with a 7 strand - 24 gauge coil with ferrite core.
This way I can vary the pulse width and frequency and duty cycle.
I have noticed with this 555 setup, that you can charge the same voltage battery off the diode flyback, though the frequency needs to be very low, like below 60hz, i used around 10 hertz and a decent size pulse width, then the charge battery receives a solid charge and not a fluffy one.
Of course, the amp draw then needs to be higher for each pulse, though the average is lower since it's a very low frequency.
In my experiments with solid state, I never had much luck charging the same voltage battery with high frequency.
I normally use my 13.8 volt-10 amp power supply to power these radiant pulse chargers and this charges 12 volts very well at higher frequencies.
peace love light
tyson