Joule Ringer!

[xee2]

I just don't want to wreck my scope, I just got it !

Be cautious. How much voltage is safe depends on the test equipment you are using. I use neons (100V), fluorescents (400V), and xenons (2000V) first to see how high the voltage is (they can each handle thousands of volts before being damaged). Then I use a voltage divider so that scope only see a small fraction of the voltage.

[quantumuppercut]

I just did a modification to this circuit by having an AC cap between Collector and emitter. The signal is now AC. Wonder if there is some advantage to this.

[minoly]

@ Lidmotor

I agree, the Joule thief is actually a blocking oscillator. But most people do not seem to know what that is. Thanks for your feedback.

So I'm curious now, as I really do not know which came first, the blocking oscillator or JB's ckts?

and if it was the blocking oscillator, what was it used for? was it's purpose to harvest the radiant spike in some other form?
Doesn't Peter L. have a vid on this subject...
Respectfully,
Patrick

[kcarring]

Then I use a voltage divider so that scope only see a small fraction of the voltage.

Thanks for the advice Xee2.

If you have a moment maybe you could elaborate on that... as to what sort of divider you use, i.e. resistive, capacitive... etc. When you say that I am imagining you placing two resistors in series between the C and E of the transistor, placing your scope probe in the middle, it's ground clip to -. Then mathematically figuring out the true voltage based on the drops... but perhaps I am completely way off, on my understanding!


Thanks

[minoly]

I still consider this a blocking oscillator at it's core as Wikipedia defines it.

Blocking oscillator - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Lidmotor

Millman Pulse and Digital Circuits 1956

However, what were they doing with all those ckts...

Multivibrators

to take the idea a bit further:

HowStuffWorks "10 New Uses for Old Inventions"

so what was the original purpose of the vacuum tube... was it to create a large radiant spike... and what of a simple manual switch on a wheel driven by wind, water or dare I say hand...

If Tesla invented the AND logical gates Tesla's Invention of the Electronic Logic Gate | Tesla FAQ No. 24 | Interesting Facts About Nikola Tesla, why does the other Gates get so much more credit for furthering the computer...
crazy world created by us humans eh... Tesla went to his grave with little recognition, the Guglielmo Marconi's of the world who stamped their names on stuff took it all from him.

at least JB still gives Tesla the credit.

[xee2]

Thanks for the advice Xee2.

If you have a moment maybe you could elaborate on that... as to what sort of divider you use, i.e. resistive, capacitive... etc. When you say that I am imagining you placing two resistors in series between the C and E of the transistor, placing your scope probe in the middle, it's ground clip to -. Then mathematically figuring out the true voltage based on the drops... but perhaps I am completely way off, on my understanding!


Thanks

I use this for high voltages. Output goes to scope. My scope has 100x option, if yours does not you must convert screen voltage readings accordingly. Use 10K for divide by 1000. For voltages high enough to spark, the 10M needs to be replaced by ten 1M in series to prevent spark over.

[Lidmotor]

"Connections" videos by James Burke

@Patrick
This is kinda off topic but you have touched on a very interesting subject---who invented what and when. There was 70's TV series done by the BBC and narrated by James Burke called "Connections" that explained the interweaving of inventions throughout history. Some of these shows are posted on Youtube or you can buy the whole DVD series. It is a faciniating look at how "stuff" comes to be. Sometimes an idea just lays dormant for a long time until somebody else finds a use for it or a needed component is discovered to make the idea really work.

For this project here we probably shouldn't dwell on it too long. Just acknowledge that we are building on the work of many other people before us and not take credit for it. Naming these things that we make is fun and does give some personality plus humor to the work. I can't imagine going back to calling "Maggie" just "induction coil" ---where is the fun in that? Just like calling Xee's circuit a "Jolue Thief" is much more fun than calling it a 'blocking oscillator".

The very first circuit that I built when I started this hobby was John Bedini's SG ---the "School Girl". It was the name and the story behind that name that caught my attention. It makes me wonder how many other people also did this and, unlike me, went onto full careers in electronics.

Lidmotor

[Slider2732]

If I may add my view, it's that even Tesla perhaps rediscovered processes first discovered out on Alpha Centauri or somewhere a billion years before !

Naming is fun, yep, gives a bunch of parts a tag that can be identified with.
Before joining this forum my whole focus was little R/C aircraft...I named 'em all, just to mark a difference. Same as people name cats, goldfish and even cars.
Before that was arcade machines that I bought for cheap to repair and they had names anyway, Pole Position, Monaco GP, Xevious. Without those pre-given names they'd probably be Bob, Fred, and Bill.
Trade names are related....Coca-Cola make a product that is similar to others, but noone says they are going out to the store to buy a 'well advertised carbonated soft drink with a cola flavour'. Mind you, they don't stick the cocaine in it nowadays so they ought to change the name !

Say 'Maggie' and people know it's a couple of LED's on a coil and, importantly for myself at least, there's an image of the actual device in the minds eye....Lidmotor can use it in common parlance on these boards. That's what I think most of the naming is for, descriptive shorthand.

[minoly]

@Patrick
This is kinda off topic but you have touched on a very interesting subject---who invented what and when. There was 70's TV series done by the BBC and narrated by James Burke called "Connections" that explained the interweaving of inventions throughout history. Some of these shows are posted on Youtube or you can buy the whole DVD series. It is a faciniating look at how "stuff" comes to be. Sometimes an idea just lays dormant for a long time until somebody else finds a use for it or a needed component is discovered to make the idea really work.

For this project here we probably shouldn't dwell on it too long. Just acknowledge that we are building on the work of many other people before us and not take credit for it. Naming these things that we make is fun and does give some personality plus humor to the work. I can't imagine going back to calling "Maggie" just "induction coil" ---where is the fun in that? Just like calling Xee's circuit a "Jolue Thief" is much more fun than calling it a 'blocking oscillator".

The very first circuit that I built when I started this hobby was John Bedini's SG ---the "School Girl". It was the name and the story behind that name that caught my attention. It makes me wonder how many other people also did this and went onto full careers in electronics.

Lidmotor

those are fantastic points.
That's a nice series - BBC puts out some insightful content. James Burke: Connections | Watch Free Documentary Online
the very first one "The Trigger Effect" was one of my favorites - very profound. are you referring to "hit the water" or just most of them in general? One thing the series was good at was causing thought.

I'm in total agreement with the "fun" naming, and it does make sense to be able to refer back to one specific change that brought about a specific accomplishment, and most people don't use their real names anyway - although at some point even the fun names will point back in history to a particular person, and these videos are being collected by many out there no matter which box you check.

Those of you sharing, posting, etc... might as well use your real name, because, unless you are a serious hacker who knows how to remain absolutely invisible, you are already known to those who care.

I know I said "enough said by me" - I'm only human - sorry about that. I'll do my best to clean up my own act first.


I received my Feit electric LED bulbs a while ago, the ones that Lasersaber uses in the vid, plugged them into a 110v socket, I'm not very pleased with the light. here is a picture of our small bathroom lit up with four different LED bulbs, I have one joule ringer ckt with all four in parallel using 95mA. the LED bulbs each have 76 bright white LED's purchased them on Ebay 1 year ago from china. they have a simple oscillating chip in them similar to those found in many solar garden lights. the picture shows 2, there are two more on the opposite side of the room situated for optimal reflection off the white walls.
this is 10 X brighter than the Feit electric's which are only rated 70 Lumens! these LEDs bulbs in the picture are rated 240 lumens each. even without the joule ringer, they only take 80mA from 12 volts.

[minoly]

here is a follow up on the LED lighting. as well as an interesting ringing in the bulb itself.

LED Light comparison - YouTube

[Slider2732]

With the 1W Lights of America (Made in China) ringing for literally minutes in similar experiments to yours, i'm sure these things could be pulsed with a lower frequency and gain a lowering in input power.
LED's fire pretty much immediately and our eyes need about 30 frames per second to see continuous light.
So, if the mains frequency of 60Hz were halved, would we see a reduction in light output ? It may mean the bulbs use only approx half the power they would ?
Is the thinking flawed ? do they already run like that and hence part of the reasoning for the 'ringing' noticed ?

[seth]

Some more results - I tried with my wall plug today, and on my original circuit with the extra diode

6v @ about 50-100 microamps

9V @ 100-150 microamps

12V @ 200 microamps

flyback ringer 6 to12V - YouTube

Plenty of useful light here

[Zardox]

minoly - I like to use the 2 watt Lights of America led bulbs rated at 100 lumens in most of the circuits we are building here. They put out more light and use less energy than the Feit 2 watt bulbs that say they put out 150 lumens. With that said I am using a Feit 7.5 watt bulb in my flip-flop circuit and it lights up my whole room.

[xee2]

Here's 12 120 volt LED'S off the French Inverter: Amperage remains unchanged with the additional bulbs, but battery voltage drops.

12 120 volt LED inverter bulbs - YouTube

Have you tested if current increases with the Joule thief/JouleRinger circuit when bulbs are added in series? Each bulb needs about 60 volts. So I would think that the original 200 volt output circuit would light 2 or 3 with same current and the new 1000 volt output circuits would light more than a dozen in series.

[seth]

Apologies!

My setup is not running on microamps. It is running on mA - about 30 at 1,5V. I had the multimetre wired up wrongly - it was only measuring current draw on one on the positive rails. I'll take down my videos as Im a little embarrassed to have made such elementary error.

Well done to all of you who had already guessed as much - All I can say is - you should have told me!