Joule Ringer!

[PhysicsProf]

Following on the work by Lasersaber, Lidmotor, Peanutbutter and Burgess in particular, my son and I constructed a "light-box" to permit repeatable measurements using TWO light meters -- and a triplet of power and voltage meters to monitor input power. Pls see attached photos from my home
electronics bench today.

I found that the meters agree quite well -- one of them is the SAME as used by Lidmotor in vids (orange-color around it). The black one is cheaper on Amazon.
However -- the meters do not measure LUMENS but rather Lux -- as would be expected actually. (See wiki Lumen (unit) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia )

The difference between the units lumen and lux is that the lux takes into account the area over which the luminous flux is spread. A flux of 1000 lumens, concentrated into an area of one square metre, lights up that square metre with an illuminance of 1000 lux. The same 1000 lumens, spread out over ten square metres, produces a dimmer illuminance of only 100 lux. Mathematically, 1 lx = 1 lm/m2.

A source radiating a power of one watt of light in the color for which the eye is most efficient (a wavelength of 555 nm, in the green region of the optical spectrum) has luminous flux of 683 lumens. So a lumen represents at least 1/683 watts of visible light power, depending on the spectral distribution.

So we have to be cautious regarding colors, also the difference between lux measured on the meters and lumens.

So I ran various "bulbs" in the box and kept track of the input voltage, input power via two meters, and lux via the two light meters. As long as the bulbs were designed to put out light more-or-less isotropically (in all directions -- not beam-like), I found a GOOD correlation in my box between lumens and the measured lux on the meters.

That is -- I assumed the lumens as listed on the packaging with each bulb is reasonably accurate. I found that the voltage in town varies from about 117 VAC -- then the power on the meters agrees well with the rated power on the bulb -- and about 124.7 VAC. The lux meters show a sharp RISE in output lux when the voltage in town jumps UP. (I was surprised the voltage varies so much... good thing I'm keeping track of it! so I can make sense of my readings.)

So, when the power for a 40 W bulb showed 42.5 W with the higher voltage, I made two separate measurements of lux output, and I assume the given lumens output scales roughly linearly for a small change in input voltage.

Likewise for the various bulbs, 90W, 100W incandescent; 13 W fluorescent; and 9.5 W LED bulb.

I found that to within a few percent, I could find a conversion factor between what I read on the flux meters IN THE LIGHT BOX and lumens as given on the packaging! That is, I was able to calibrate the light-box-plus-light-meters system. Without given all the data here (tedious, its all in my logbook) -- here is the conversion:

Lumens = 0.059 * Lux (+/- about 7% with the various measurements involved) with my light-box.

This is actually the value using just the top watt-volts-kW-hour meter (it is cheaper and I like the increased digits for kW-hours) AND the cheaper black light-meter. The conversion factor found by averaging both power-meters, and also averaging the light meters is about the same, so I'm simplifying measurements by focusing on two meters, one for input power and one for output light. (But I do have redundancy to check things; part of my scientific training I guess... )


I would be leary of using this system to try to establish ou, there are more reliable measurements IMO, but -- this is a very interesting way to compare lumens/watt for various bulbs AND for various circuits -- like the SJR -- for the same bulb.

Peanutbutter and Burgess pls note -- one may get more lumens/watt (Lm/W) due to higher frequencies in the output circuit, for example; that is, higher Lm/W does not NECESSARILY MEAN that you are getting more POWER in the output circuit, it may just be there is more efficient light -output than is rated on the bulb for 60 Hz.

[totoalas]

Following on the work by Lasersaber, Lidmotor, Peanutbutter and Burgess in particular, my son and I constructed a "light-box" to permit repeatable measurements using TWO light meters -- and a triplet of power and voltage meters to monitor input power. Pls see attached photos from my home
electronics bench today.

I found that the meters agree quite well -- one of them is the SAME as used by Lidmotor in vids (orange-color around it). The black one is cheaper on Amazon.
However -- the meters do not measure LUMENS but rather Lux -- as would be expected actually. (See wiki Lumen (unit) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia )



So we have to be cautious regarding colors, also the difference between lux measured on the meters and lumens.

So I ran various "bulbs" in the box and kept track of the input voltage, input power via two meters, and lux via the two light meters. As long as the bulbs were designed to put out light more-or-less isotropically (in all directions -- not beam-like), I found a GOOD correlation in my box between lumens and the measured lux on the meters.

That is -- I assumed the lumens as listed on the packaging with each bulb is reasonably accurate. I found that the voltage in town varies from about 117 VAC -- then the power on the meters agrees well with the rated power on the bulb -- and about 124.7 VAC. The lux meters show a sharp RISE in output lux when the voltage in town jumps UP. (I was surprised the voltage varies so much... good thing I'm keeping track of it! so I can make sense of my readings.)

So, when the power for a 40 W bulb showed 42.5 W with the higher voltage, I made two separate measurements of lux output, and I assume the given lumens output scales roughly linearly for a small change in input voltage.

Likewise for the various bulbs, 90W, 100W incandescent; 13 W fluorescent; and 9.5 W LED bulb.

I found that to within a few percent, I could find a conversion factor between what I read on the flux meters IN THE LIGHT BOX and lumens as given on the packaging! That is, I was able to calibrate the light-box-plus-light-meters system. Without given all the data here (tedious, its all in my logbook) -- here is the conversion:

Lumens = 0.059 * Lux (+/- about 7% with the various measurements involved) with my light-box.

This is actually the value using just the top watt-volts-kW-hour meter (it is cheaper and I like the increased digits for kW-hours) AND the cheaper black light-meter. The conversion factor found by averaging both power-meters, and also averaging the light meters is about the same, so I'm simplifying measurements by focusing on two meters, one for input power and one for output light. (But I do have redundancy to check things; part of my scientific training I guess... )


I would be leary of using this system to try to establish ou, there are more reliable measurements IMO, but -- this is a very interesting way to compare lumens/watt for various bulbs AND for various circuits -- like the SJR -- for the same bulb.

Peanutbutter and Burgess pls note -- one may get more lumens/watt (Lm/W) due to higher frequencies in the output circuit, for example; that is, higher Lm/W does not NECESSARILY MEAN that you are getting more POWER in the output circuit, it may just be there is more efficient light -output than is rated on the bulb for 60 Hz.

Thanks Physics Prof
that was the best ive read on LUMENS / LUX 101 LOL
When measuring the light intensity of the led bulb is there a range distance from the sensor
and also the color warm white cool white ???
Energy level in the package color scale from green small to red
for ex A to G with A for a 5 W lamp
Some led bulbs are brighter some are not aas seen by the naked eye maybe low qualit lamps unlike philips with high standard

totoalas

[totoalas]

Super Joule Ringer lighting CFL 110512

Using the modified 13 w cfl and the input ckt wire as ground in water can lit up the lamp 380 to 480 mA so CFL an alternative to the expensive led lamps
@ 1 A water and ground not needed

Super Joule Ringer lighting CFL 110512 - YouTube

totoalas

[ratul]

Just stumbled across these vids on YT:
Radiant Oscillator Circuit: 0 Amps @ 12 Volts= Huge Light? Part 1/4 - YouTube

I replicated, but it draws 3A Current.

[xee2]

I replicated, but it draws 3A Current.

When measuring high frequency AC current with a DC analog amp meter the needle can not go back and forth fast enough to keep up with the voltage polarity change and thus it stays put and reads zero. I see many, many, people making this mistake. I do not know if they are just stupid or if they are deliberately doing this to fool people. But this seems to be what is happening in the video.

[PhysicsProf]

I posted further information regarding light-box analysis on the "Joule Lamp" thread; posting here for convenience of researchers.

Congratulations, Lynx! indeed its time for lumens/watt testing.Let me see if I can explain how easy this really is, how I'm going about it. I would like to do these measurements, but I'm way behind you on the builds (you are fast!), so I'm going to encourage you (and all) to build a simple light box. Here's the vid I put up just now:

2LightBoxCalibration.mov - YouTube

Vid shows the "light box" I put together with my son today for these devices and how it is calibrated.
We first take one bulb of KNOWN lumens output, specified on the package and place the bulb in the light box. (I use the middle position on the power strip as seen in the video.) Turn the bulb on. We note the lux as measured by the light/ lux meter. We check that the Watts-input is close to that specified for the bulb (on the package again).


The package on this CFL bulb says it puts out 900 Lumens (Lm) running at 13W.
I find with repeated measurements -- when the CFL bulb has warmed up -- the light output is 10920 Lux (average). Then, I divide:
900 Lumens/10920 Lux = 0.082 Lm/Lux.


I repeated this calibration for an LED light, 600 Lumens running at 9.5 W is seen from the Light Box as 7280 Lux, again 0.082 Lm/Lux for this light box. (Each light box will have its own conversion factor, Lm/Lux, which can be calibrated in just this way.)


Repeated for a 60 W bulb, 850 Lm / 10760 lux observed = 0.079 Lm/Lux.
Repeated for a 40 W, 75 W, 90 W and 100 W incandescent bulbs also, the average is about 0.080 Lm/Lux +/- approx 6%. You can just use 3-4 light bulbs for calibration. Close enough to really help us in this research!


_____

So I put in a second bulb (done with incandescent and CFL) in the front position, and got very close to the same 0.080 conversion factor. That is, the second bulb DOUBLED (very close) the lux light output on the meter. When I put a bulb in the back position (near the switch on the power strip), the conversion factor was about 0.085 showing that a bulb in this position gives a non-linear response; which is OK with this separate calibration for the two bulbs in these positions.

For three CFL bulbs, in the three positions with adapters as seen in the vid, I found:

2700 Lumens / 29600 Lux on the meter = 0.091
(a larger conversion factor as I expected, because less lux reaching the light meter with three bulbs in this configuration)

____________

Now that the box has been calibrated, we can place an UNKNOWN light source into the box in the same spot, or two or three light sources in the locations described, and measure the light output in Lux on the meter. Then,
Lumens output = 0.08 * Lux (for one bulb,as read on the meter).

For more bulbs, would use the appropriate calibration factor we have determined... Easy!

Finally, we determine the input power (if from a battery and DC, P = I*V, current times voltage), and calculate Lumens-out per Watts input -- Lm/W.


The idea is to MAXIMIZE Lm/W in various test devices, such as Lasersaber's SJR 2.0, and Lynxsteam's Teslamp. (Great work, gentlemen!) I strongly recommend use of a light box for quantitative measurements of Lumens-out/Watts-in so we can make solid scientific progress.

For comparison, we calculate a few known values from bulb packages:
Incandescent, e.g., 850 Lm for 60W bulb => 14 Lm/W
Fluorescent, CFL, e.g. 900 Lm for 13 W bulb => 69 Lm/W
LED, e.g., 600 Lm for 9.5 W bulb => 63 Lm/W.


I strongly recommend use of a light box for quantitative measurements.

A value above 100 Lm/W would be very interesting! Let's see what we can come up with.

[Jules Tresor]

Self running Joule Ringer

Hello Dr Jones,
I know Professors like their "students" to find by themselves instead of giving them the solutions in hands.
I think you are doing the same, see below why.

I would rather give a small finished circuit, and find someone to manufacture it in small quantities, and send the device all over the world to researchers, NGOs, Universities, etc... And sell these basic OU circuit through internet to collect funds to develop bigger ones and to finance a large communication campaign. But that's just my experience that gives me such opinion

So, coming to the OU device, I watched carefully your video from Sterling Allan interview Physicist Steven E. Jones shows 8x overunity circuit and measurements (1 of 2) - YouTube
At one point you mention your test with a Pin of 4 mW and a Pout of 920mW.
That's 230 more out than in ...
By the way I don't understand why Sterling nor anyone else ever mentioned this x230, but instead talked about x8 and x20 ???

But we don't need x230 to prove OU, or ambient energy harnessing ...

With your very simple circuit (a Joule Ringer as LaserSaber calls it), at 4mW Pin, is it possible to light 1 or a few LEDs on the output side ?

If you can light 1 white LED at full brightness, factory rated at 3V 15mA, you would get 45mW output. That's just about x11 Efficiency. Not much compared to some of your results.

If this is possible, could you just put this LED in front of a tiny solar cell, even a low efficient one, let say a 10% efficient one.

Then you could just connect this solar cell back to the battery, and disconnect the battery, having an Pin superior to what you need.
10% of 45mW is 4.5mW, while your circuit uses only 4mW.
Of course if the solar cell is 15% efficient, then you'll get even more Pin

This self lighting/powering circuit would be better proof of OU than any measurement, isn't it ?

Options :
1- If you can't light LEDs with the secondary, you could just replace the variable resistor on the secondary with an incandescent bulb, and collect electricity the same way with the solar cell.

2- May be the battery is important for this circuit, and it couldn't run from the solar cell only ... then you could try to replace this battery with a capacitor.

3- If you can't do without cap or battery, the a voltage reading after many days of working would prove the OU of your circuit.

Did you do that already but want "us" to find it out ?

Why looking for big power generators first, while we can start with a small proof of OU concept. We shall do according to our small means.

Sincerely,
Jules

[Slider2732]

@Jules - I think you are thinking along my way of thinking
Blocking oscillator tricks have use here. There are circuits as used in Lidmotor's 'Penny', which take from 0.4V and 1uA and turn it into a flashing LED. Raise the input uA to just 20uA and a solid light can be achieved - albeit with the caveat that our eyes are seeing pulses and not a constant flat output. Crank the circuit to 2mA and full brightness is there. All of which is useless for running a house, but incredibly important for understanding scalabilities.
Such 'tricks' of input can be beneficial in these Joule Ringer/Lamp type of circuits too.
Harvesting back is possible, without affecting output or input - make a simple JT by using a bifilar pancake coil and then put a thick single turn around the outside of the pancake, with AV plug to one end of it. That turn will show, say, 0.3V @ 68uA as induction...not a lot, but it's definitely extra to the light output and no increase in draw has been seen from the circuit in my own experiments, tentative though they are and non exacting.


Moving on to building. I was intrigued by an email link to the OU forum, of the Joule Lamp by Lynxsteam and had an idea to decrease the physical sizing of the excellent work seen so far. I was besotted with b_rads work, it looked like a crystal radio was running a CFL !!! I mean, how cool is that !
Just a small step of an idea, but definitely wishing to move toward what is possible without including ferrite. Being as these are a lot like Slayer exciters, it intrigues me to know how small these can go, yet still produce useable results.
So, a previously wound secondary was selected - 4.5" length of 1/2" PVC pipe, 360 winds of 30 gauge. A toilet roll was then cut down its length and adjusted til it fit over the secondary coil. The excess was trimmed off and then it was taped to hold the shape. Onto which went 32 turns of 26 gauge.
Transistor is a D2641 Darlington power transistor, which came from a bag of trannies and still has a 1N4007 across Base and Emitter, so I just left it there.
Power is 12V, from a converted old PC power supply.

Here are two pics.
The first is an LED nightlight, which although the draw was a monstrous 500mA, lights the light brighter than when plugged directly into the wall. Sorry for the lack of light box type exactness there, which is a fine idea for comparisons testing.



Second, is a 4W small fluoro, which draws 50mA, to light to 'around' 1/3 brightness on one wire. Connecting back to the negative rail doesn't change the brightness.



Note, the circuit may need 2 or 3 taps of the positive connection to fire up, took me by surprise when it did so on the first run.
Fun circuit, lots to change, tweak and combine with the Joule Ringer. Like adding a resistor/cap to the Base and large cap over the inputs

[totoalas]

Super Joule Ringer Combo Lighting 170512

Brightness can be adjusted from 310 to 430 mA 12 v dc sla battery
loads 1 10 w fl + 1 5 watt led + 1 8 watts fl + 1 1 watt Led + 1 20 watts fluoro lamps

Super Joule Ringer Combo Lighting 170512 - YouTube

totoalas

[Jules Tresor]

12 LED lamp, factory setting

Hi all,
I found a 12 LED lantern at the supermarket, camping section, 4 USD.
With 3 new Alkaline AA (Tesco brand), at full power, it stayed at maximum brightness for ~9 hours.
It gives usable light, I mean you can see everything in the room. It's like a kerosene lamp. Once I had to use a kerosene lamp in my house that had no grid electricity, its black smoke is very nasty, the odor horrible, and sometimes the flame goes crazy and the fire hazard is high ! And you don't see much at more than 6 feet away !



So, 9 hours full brightness from 3 new AA batteries. (I suppose 1,000mAh BAT)

Comparing to SkyWatcher JT lantern :
He had 17.5 hours full brightness from 1 AA 2,000mAh. That's ~9 hours from 1,000 mAh.
SW's JT circuit is 3 times more efficient than the factory circuit.
And SW said that after taking out the resistors on the LEDs, he got twice the brightness with the same Pin.
So we are roughly at 6 time more light with the JT !!!!!!

If we can build a Joule Ringer with LRC resonating tank on the primary. how much more can we achieve ?

This increased efficiency is really crucial in that case. These small lanterns are available in poor areas since many years, at a price of around 5-10 USD.
But no one is using them ! They buy it, they put new batteries inside, then when after 2 evenings the batteries are already dead, they trow the all thing in the garbage, or try to resell it to some one else !
They just can't afford to buy new batteries every other day.

Kerosene lamp cost 5 USD per month in fuel. These lanterns would cost 15 x 3AA = 7.5 USD per month in town. In isolated areas the price of goods can easily double, triple or more !! Transportation the seller says !

This 12 LEDs lanterns could be usable if they had rechargeable batteries and a solar panel. The cost would be 5 USD lamp + 10 USD for 3AA Li-ion + 10 USD for 5W solar panel = ~ 25 USD. That would be good for sunny places !

But by adding the JT circuit, then we need only 1AA, and a smaller solar panel, and to recharge much less. 5 USd lamp + 3 USD battery + 5 USD for 2W solar panel = ~ 13 USD. Investment cost divided per 2 !! And lifespan of battery much longer.
And it could be used in non-sunny areas, like mountain areas, because it needs much less charging, using 6 times less energy !!!!!

I wish I could build the same JT as SkyWatcher to show the difference to the readers ! Again I went to visit all the 6 big electronic/audio shops in town, and couldn't get 1 toroid. I finally found a discarded power supply at the scrap yard, but the toroid aren't ferrite it seems, they are yello, and underneath the paint it's shiny like zinc, not black like ferrite.

So I will wait Panacea to send me some toroids recommended by LaserSaber ...
My point was to insist on the necessity to find more efficient lighting than what is offered today to this very poor majority of mankind.
Thanks for reading,
Jules

[rosehillworks]

"If we can build a Joule Ringer with LRC resonating tank on the primary. how much more can we achieve ?"

Jules[/QUOTE]

You are thinking!!!!
That is what I am trying to do only with a Tesla switch .

[SkyWatcher]

Hi folks, Hi jules, It has been awhile, though yes, the benefit is in the fact of needing to use only one AA cell.
Was the brightness equivalent to direct powered, I doubt it, though if tuned properly and possibly using a secondary to power leds in series, it could very well be equivalent i'm sure.
Though run time is important also.
peace love light
tyson

[Jules Tresor]

Hi SW, you have the answers, it's your experiment that I mentioned :0)
http://www.energeticforum.com/112170-post26.html
You said you would try to find this lamps and test again ... if you need some money to buy a lux meter, I can send you some through Paypal.
Thanks for sharing,
Jules

[SkyWatcher]

Hi jules, yes I compared that circuit and it was only half as bright as direct power.
Though I tested with mismatched leds and it probably is not as bright as it was before, also i used warm white leds and the blue/white leds are brighter/more efficient.
Though I have no doubt that with good leds and a tuned circuit, it could be fairly close to the equivalent of full brightness to the eyes.
I'll be trying some different things to get better output.
peace love light
tyson

[NickZ]

Guys:
This company (below) have very interesting and inexpensive solar products.Such as solar rechargeable table lamps with additional usb charging, and small complete solar lighting systems that can be used as is, or combined with our Jt circuits to have additional running times.
It is hard to produce products at home that can compete with these ready made circuits, but these are not being optimized (yet) like they are doing with the Solar Christmas Tree light strings that can light 100 or more leds off of a single AA for most of the night.
I would suggest that you have a look at the rest of their product line, as well:

Mini Solar Light with 4 LED Bulbs - SOL-4, China Mini Solar Light with 4 LED Bulbs Manufacturer and Supplier

Let me know your thoughts...
NickZ