If we find free energy, then what?

[ryuke]

To get it out

Some good insight on this thread, id like to share my thoughts.

The hardest part would be getting a working model in the hands of the masses. Its just not feasible to mass produce a device and sell it in the public domain, without red tape, patents, death etc.

The best way would be as stated above by natone, complete dvds and instructional packages.

However there is a LOT of work in that. Joe Public generally wouldn't be able to put something together from scratch, where they would have to find every material required.

Imo, a kit would be the best avenue to take. Ikea style. Buy all materials wholesale, arrange it into full kits. Kits would be sold at a low average retail price of all materials needed to make the device, that way no buyer gets ripped off, or confused about what components to buy. the inventor gets a wage for the time taken to put the kits together and mail them.

At any rate, these factors should be addressed:

materials should be as easy to obtain as possible. as little specialised tools or complex machining should be used in construction, if possible use pre-existing components already likely to be in the home, and modify them, like the PC fan Bedini motor.

It should need as little construction/electrical knowledge as possible, with simple how to construct diagrams at every stage.

Diagrams should also have alternative of components you can use, and what effects it has.

The diagrams should also contain some simple to understand fundamental workings of the technology. Bearden For Dummies style. You cant improve or replicate what you don't fully understand, or pass on any knowledge if its just an Ikea diagram.

What you guys think?

[MonsieurM]

Some good insight on this thread, id like to share my thoughts.

The hardest part would be getting a working model in the hands of the masses. Its just not feasible to mass produce a device and sell it in the public domain, without red tape, patents, death etc.

The best way would be as stated above by natone, complete dvds and instructional packages.

However there is a LOT of work in that. Joe Public generally wouldn't be able to put something together from scratch, where they would have to find every material required.

Imo, a kit would be the best avenue to take. Ikea style. Buy all materials wholesale, arrange it into full kits. Kits would be sold at a low average retail price of all materials needed to make the device, that way no buyer gets ripped off, or confused about what components to buy. the inventor gets a wage for the time taken to put the kits together and mail them.

At any rate, these factors should be addressed:

materials should be as easy to obtain as possible. as little specialised tools or complex machining should be used in construction, if possible use pre-existing components already likely to be in the home, and modify them, like the PC fan Bedini motor.

It should need as little construction/electrical knowledge as possible, with simple how to construct diagrams at every stage.

Diagrams should also have alternative of components you can use, and what effects it has.

The diagrams should also contain some simple to understand fundamental workings of the technology. Bearden For Dummies style. You cant improve or replicate what you don't fully understand, or pass on any knowledge if its just an Ikea diagram.

What you guys think?

I think Kits are the way to go, add to this licensing for distribution in other countries (not all of us have access to internet shopping believe it or not ).

also do not forget one avenue to explore are NGO "market", provide kits to these organizations. they are always willing to try new "low tech" tools to help in their work.

[Steve220]

One thing I would suggest

Some good insight on this thread, id like to share my thoughts.

The hardest part would be getting a working model in the hands of the masses. Its just not feasible to mass produce a device and sell it in the public domain, without red tape, patents, death etc.

The best way would be as stated above by natone, complete dvds and instructional packages.

However there is a LOT of work in that. Joe Public generally wouldn't be able to put something together from scratch, where they would have to find every material required.

Imo, a kit would be the best avenue to take. Ikea style. Buy all materials wholesale, arrange it into full kits. Kits would be sold at a low average retail price of all materials needed to make the device, that way no buyer gets ripped off, or confused about what components to buy. the inventor gets a wage for the time taken to put the kits together and mail them.

At any rate, these factors should be addressed:

materials should be as easy to obtain as possible. as little specialised tools or complex machining should be used in construction, if possible use pre-existing components already likely to be in the home, and modify them, like the PC fan Bedini motor.

It should need as little construction/electrical knowledge as possible, with simple how to construct diagrams at every stage.

Diagrams should also have alternative of components you can use, and what effects it has.

The diagrams should also contain some simple to understand fundamental workings of the technology. Bearden For Dummies style. You cant improve or replicate what you don't fully understand, or pass on any knowledge if its just an Ikea diagram.

What you guys think?

Safety. Free energy devices may or may not be safe for the general public.
For example, a free energy device may be easy for a person to construct, but may have side effects that have great danger.
It seems that many people tend to think that because it is "free" it is automatic that it is problem free and safe too. As I have stated before and given examples, free energy may have a high cost.

[Farmhand]

Safety. Free energy devices may or may not be safe for the general public.
For example, a free energy device may be easy for a person to construct, but may have side effects that have great danger.
It seems that many people tend to think that because it is "free" it is automatic that it is problem free and safe too. As I have stated before and given examples, free energy may have a high cost.

Well sounds good in theory but ! Who will decide what is safe and what is not?

The people who give us nuclear power and fluoride and mercury vaccs ?

Because i'm not sure I trust them. And if they are so smart to decide these things for all. How come they must charge us money for ruining everything right now ?

The big question is who will decide what is safe for everyone else ?

If there are people already qualified to decide for others what is safe and what is not, (beyond common sense things) then they are doing a very poor job right now.

Somehow humans survived for ages without other humans telling them what is safe and what is not, then came laws, then came corruption, then came tyranny, and so forth. Coercive persuasion is a very common thing. And it is a form of mind control. I try not to let people use it on me.

Cheers

[Steve220]

The big question

"The big question is who will decide what is safe for everyone else ?"

I could not agree more.
Just who will decide what is safe for everyone else?
A panel of experts from around the world, some guy working in his garage, a guest on a radio talk show? Me? You?

"If there are people already qualified to decide for others what is safe and what is not, (beyond common sense things) then they are doing a very poor job right now."

"(Beyond common sense things)"

There it is, common sense is not something humans do very well with either.
Common sense would tell a person not to build his home next to an active volcano, but it is done all the time.
But it only affects the guy living by the Volcano.

To me anyway, I would think that at least a minimal review of any new free energy device by at least more than one person would be a good idea before dumping it out to the world.

The more people that review it first, the more chance that common sense might be used to say, "wait a second, look at this!", a problem.

I agree that humans survived this long without someone telling them what is safe or not. But any poor decisions usually affected only a small local group of people, a poor mistake now would affect the whole world.

But that is just me thinking.

[Farmhand]

"The big question is who will decide what is safe for everyone else ?"

I could not agree more.
Just who will decide what is safe for everyone else?
A panel of experts from around the world, some guy working in his garage, a guest on a radio talk show? Me? You?

"If there are people already qualified to decide for others what is safe and what is not, (beyond common sense things) then they are doing a very poor job right now."

"(Beyond common sense things)"

There it is, common sense is not something humans do very well with either.
Common sense would tell a person not to build his home next to an active volcano, but it is done all the time.
But it only affects the guy living by the Volcano.

To me anyway, I would think that at least a minimal review of any new free energy device by at least more than one person would be a good idea before dumping it out to the world.

The more people that review it first, the more chance that common sense might be used to say, "wait a second, look at this!", a problem.

I agree that humans survived this long without someone telling them what is safe or not. But any poor decisions usually affected only a small local group of people, a poor mistake now would affect the whole world.

But that is just me thinking.

Well I have to agree, because that make's sense. I wonder the same thing sometime's, there could be very serious consequences for many by the actions of a few, we see that already. Knowledge and asking the right questions of ourselves and others is the key, this happens now but not enough.

The problem would be that even if the said device is harmless the "establishment" could declare it potentially harmfull for various reasons and the majority of people just beleive what they are told "no questions" unfortunately.

It is a problem that's for sure. But it is a problem we have to be able to deal with, no matter what happens. What if there is a world war or global catastrophry ? With the current system of reliance on combustable fuels, there will be a lot of peole in serious danger if the energy cannot be found to run the light in the cities. Slaughter would be a good word for what would happen if there was no electricity provided to all the major cities in the world. Much misery. We need to find ways to light up the night like we do now but just our own place and communities.

If I was a policeman in a large city and the power was cut and I knew it was going to be cut for months I would take off my uniform and go protect my family from the unenlightened one's.

How long would the food last or even the tree's in the cold place's.

Some of the toxic pollution picture's I have seen make me wonder how we are not all dead already. With growth rate's like they are and desperation setting in I don't think we have much time to think about it.

Our governments want to charge us money for moving carbon from one place on the planet to another. But that will cause extra money to be needed and earned and more carbon to be moved. If they reduce the money flow and the want for money and power they will reduce the carbon movement. That's why the carbon is being moved, to create "artificial wealth", if they make a carbon tax there will be more money for them to control. My reference to coercive persuasion was to do with the way we are all just told stuff and expected to believe it, if we don't we are coerced into either believeing it, accepting it or we are wrong. From what i can tell there has never been any real discussion about "if" carbon is actually as big a problem as they say.

The Australian prime minister says that even though there is considerable opposition to a carbon tax and they say they will just give the money they take from us, back to us, that they "WILL' do it because it is the "RIGHT" thing to do, even though she promised there would be no carbon tax so she would be elected. The liar. But how can they say they are right period ? They are only human, or are they ? This is coming from a persons mouth who can probably not even change a car wheel. Obviously very smart.

An obvious case of mass fraud in my opinion. Our government control the scientists and the governments don't do the right thing. Our governments want more growth, more money flow and more pollution, they must work for someone else while getting paid by us.

And that is the core to 90% of our problems in this world. Money, greed, deception, apathy ect..

If we don't want they wont be able to control. That is why we will have ample free enegy soon for our housholds, if we want to gather it ourselves that is.
In my opinion it's close someone will nail it soon. I'll bet.

Cheers

[Neight]

"The big question is who will decide what is safe for everyone else ?"

I could not agree more.
Just who will decide what is safe for everyone else?
A panel of experts from around the world, some guy working in his garage, a guest on a radio talk show? Me? You?

"If there are people already qualified to decide for others what is safe and what is not, (beyond common sense things) then they are doing a very poor job right now."

"(Beyond common sense things)"

There it is, common sense is not something humans do very well with either.
Common sense would tell a person not to build his home next to an active volcano, but it is done all the time.
But it only affects the guy living by the Volcano.

To me anyway, I would think that at least a minimal review of any new free energy device by at least more than one person would be a good idea before dumping it out to the world.

The more people that review it first, the more chance that common sense might be used to say, "wait a second, look at this!", a problem.

I agree that humans survived this long without someone telling them what is safe or not. But any poor decisions usually affected only a small local group of people, a poor mistake now would affect the whole world.

But that is just me thinking.

I would like to point something out that should be obvious from this forum, but is apparently not....

anything that works or claims to work on free energy is going to have to go through some pretty stringent filters before it even gets deemed worthy to show to the general public.

take the romerouk/muller device. we can watch the video of it working, and it appears to work great! but instead of launching some massive add campaign to sell the thing, or any attempts to mass produce it, it landed in the hands of a lot of people who are working very hard on replicating it.

think about what this means for the overall outcome of this machine, if it does prove to work as shown....
first, it has been scrutinized time and time and time again by people who are very qualified to do so. it is being dissected and every detail of it is being discussed and debated and very thoroughly thought through.
it is being built by people all over the world, in several different variations based on materials and budgets that are available to the people who understand enough to even attempt to build it.
by the time this tech is proven to work or not, there will be little to no question as to why and how it does or does not work.
before anyone would even be able to put together any kind of kit, or marketable product, there is going to be a consensus as to which variation is most efficient, easiest to replicate, and most cost effective to be built.
by the time this thing makes it's way to the public it will have been so thoroughly learned that I have no doubt that anyone (or any group of people) ambitious enough to attempt to put together a kit and instructions for joe public to build on his own, will know very well the risks involved in building and operating this machine will be. I am also sure they will include in the kit a warning of the potential risks to the end user, who will then assume responsibility for themselves and the machine as they put it together (as is given on the website that sells the bedini kits)

we cannot let fear stop us from bringing the world one step closer to independence from large corporations that are ruining our lives, our environment, our health, and our freedom. A change absolutely has to come, and in my personal opinion, it can't come fast enough. this world has been controlled for way too long by very few people who do not have our best interests at heart. they care about power and profit and have been proven to disregard public safety and even kill to keep their money and power.

I am not sure what you are trying to accomplish by attempting to spread fear and confuse this issue, but honestly it makes me uneasy...

I have no doubt that through forums like this one, and the collaboration of many people all over the globe, that nothing will make it into the hands of the general masses without some serious testing. these things have to go through a gauntlet of doubters before they really get to see the light of day.

no one is suggesting that we just blast anything out to the public without knowing first if and how it works.

instead of trying to impede the process, everyone who can should be helping to do the work, so there are that many more hands on these kinds of projects. and that many more minds put to work to find potential flaws and risks, and much more importantly, bring the thing to life!! prove it works, it is valid science, and that changes need to be made to current understanding of just how energy really works.

(I know this is getting long, i'm wrapping up )
one last thing i would like to point out here. look at all the scam websites that are out there...
people selling incomplete plans for devices that haven't even been built, from information that is largely stolen from the people on the internet that are working on these kinds of ideas. everyday, people are conned into buying empty words and some bad photos, and losing their hard earned money to people who are more than happy to make a buck off of anyone who doesn't take the time to first do their homework. at least in forums like this one, and the people having these very discussions, are attempting to make a working and safe product, and get it to people in as easy and safe a way as possible, without being shut down, or worse killed, by the same systems that will remain in place as long as no one steps out and makes a change.

I am getting off my soapbox now, sorry for the length, but it seems i had much more to say than originally intended...

N8

[Steve220]

I do agree, sort of

"I am not sure what you are trying to accomplish by attempting to spread fear and confuse this issue, but honestly it makes me uneasy.."

I never said I was against free energy, only against free energy that may have a un forseen cost. As far as uneasy, I think we should all be a little uneasy and look before you leap.

Even if a free energy device proves to be safe from a operational standpoint, then what happens? No more wars over oil, but now wars over, food for example, due to an increase in population, due to free energy.
There were wars over other things long before before oil was discovered.

I don't know, but I also think it should be at least looked at first.
Yes the current system is a mess, some people are getting very rich off of it
and do not want to see any change. I am not defending these people. I am just saying we need to make sure we are not jumping from the frying pan into the fire.

"no one is suggesting that we just blast anything out to the public without knowing first if and how it works."

Read some of these pages on this site and other sites and you will find a whole bunch of suggestions that promote the idea to blast it out to the world and if something goes wrong, oh well, stuff happens. May be this don't make you uneasy, but it does me.

Sometimes I wonder if the goal of free energy is to make a better world for our children or to create revenge to the oil cartels and fat cats of the world.

I could see a situation where the fat cats go down in flames because of free energy and then only to find the rest of us going down in flames also.

A lot of mixed signals as far as I can see. Very little discussion on this very important subject makes me uneasy.

There could be a sudden breakthrough in the production of free energy only to be followed up later by "OH!!! *#^%**&(!!!" is all I am saying.

[Farmhand]

I see you're point. It is much more complex than free energy discovered one day no one go's to work the next day because of it. I think the only thing that will change quickly is peoples attitude's when they realise they have been hoodwinked so much for so long and by whom (if copious "really" free energy is discovered that is).


Please forgive me while I rant. this is not directed to you steve just a rant.

This has come about because of slow desensitisation to greed and being controlled. So many people are struggling to survive and suffering when so much is wasted, people go hungry and food is dumped because giving it away make's no money, why tie up the land and produce so much to waste except for greed or misguided value's. It is not the lot of men to work from dawn till dusk to get by. But people have come to see it as honorable to work for another mans profit to survive.

The number of people who call me to try to sell me stuff is unbeleivable, some are like cunning hunters looking for a kill (some bounty).

Why do some people always want to get money from other people and make a profit ? Why don't they get thier own money ? Strange questions. I know. This is a strange life.

The harder people work the more money they make the more prices inflate.

See Subsistence_theory_of_wages or Malthusian Therory or Iron Law of wages.

Iron Law of Wages - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
So nothing really changes except for the environment ruined more and people spend more of thier life working. Time is life. We are selling part of our live's to be allowed to pay for our exsistance. Something is wrong and has been for a while. A few thousand years wrong.

The system is locked. It is self leveling. Reactive.

Like trying to pull ourselves up by the shoelaces.

People will be angry. I'm not surprised they want revenge.

Sigh ranting just make's me angrier. I should refrain. Sorry.

But while there is life there is hope.

Here's a song for all the hard workers.
YouTube - ‪Spinning Wheel - High Quality Version‬‏

Cheers

[Neight]

@Steve220
I do agree that the idea of free energy should be spread, and fast. how to harness that energy however, should absolutely be very strongly looked at before anything is put into mass production.
ideas bring about change, and if the right ideas are in the right people's hands, those ideas can bring change for the better.
don't get me wrong, I have nothing against you personally, I just happen to see some harm in your message.
my whole point is, something needs to change, and it needs to change in the right direction. will there be problems along the way? I have no question. some people are going to be hurt, it happens anytime people fight against systems that are this deeply dug in for a fight (take the worlds religious history as a perfect example....)
there will likely always be wars as long as there are people who are willing to kill men over power, in all of it's many forms. it's a sad reality, but it is a reality none the less. why not put some power back into the hands of everyday people, so we can be better prepared to help defend what we stand for, instead of being forced to die for someone else's pockets?

spread the idea, bring about change. examine the consequences as we go, carefully along. most of all, be prepared for many realities. the pace we are going in this world is not sustainable, I would much rather we iron out a few problems as they are discovered than let a few very rich people destroy us all.

@ farmhand I couldn't agree more, well said!

[Steve220]

Just thinking

Farmhand, no problem and I do understand what you are saying.

Neight, you do make some good points.

I am trying to say that I don't think revenge is a good reason to create free energy. I think creating a cleaner safer world for our children is a better reason.
If 1% of the population really is controlling the whole world as some claim and that 1% is trashed out due to free energy, I would like to think that the other 99% don't get trashed out too. May be I am being selfish here, but I consider myself one of the 99%.

I am all for change, however change for the better, not change for worse.
I am not sure I see the harm in this line of thinking.

Say all the energy cartels and their fat cat big shots are now pushing shopping carts down the street thanks to free energy and we can all sit around and gloat about it.
But what is next? A whole new set of cartels and fat cats that control, for example world food production or some other raw material that is needed to survive?

So now what happens now? A new struggle to embark on. Does it start all over again? Another 1% that has to be taken out of the picture?
Free energy, but we (99%) are now starving? Here we go again.

I just wonder where this is all going and if there really is going to be a better world for our children because of free energy? I do think it is a valid question.

I don't see any harm in my message. I think the harm is to just go full speed ahead on free energy and don't be asking any questions as some have suggested on this site as well as on other energy related web sites.

Just thinking here.

[Farmhand]

Hi steve, Actual ownwership of land is abhorent to me, because in my opinion if people really owned the land they paid for there would be no further charges or taxes on that land. why should someone pay taxes on land they own, it should be thier land. That does not make sense.

OK i'm charged up for another rant !

If land ownwership was real, we should be able to make our own laws on our own land, but we cannot we must follow the laws of other men while on our own land and pay taxes for it too.

If land ownwership was real we should be able to buy say 40 acre's of land and never have to pay anyone another cent for it, because they would have no right to tax people for the use of land they do not own.

Why buy it if we don't own it when we do buy it ?

After free energy, should come the fair use of land, no one person should need to or be enabled to own land, it should be unnecessary. There would be no need for anyone to move unless they are occupying more land than they need to. Huge tracts of land were "taken up" in the beginings of our countries exsistance, by a few, by force and deception. It should be relinquished.

It is my honest opinion that if free energy devices are hidden, that if we work hard enough and make good progress it will force a change, but any forced change will likely be a concession to distract or placate us.

In my opinion we live in a twisted and unrealistic world. It really couldn't get much worse.

I welcome change form this screwed up money pit.

I would like future generations to be free from the chains of organised oppression. And mass slavery. And to have time to think and consider things so they can do the right thing in due time rather than always worrying about working and paying money to other people. If people have land to use they can produce thier own food.

Of course with extra spare time will come more free thought, free thought brings the true brilliance of humankind into veiw. And free thought is how inventions come about.

Imagine all the very intellegent and intuitive people all over the world who now have no time for free thought at the present, were suddenly released from the unnecessary money pressure's, the explosion of creativity would be immense. Especially considering the number of people involved.

I think our future with free energy is much more promising than without it.

With free energy we could have actual freedom sometime later, without free energy, that would be impossible at this stage of the world.

Cheers

[Steve220]

WoW

You really are going.

"After free energy, should come the fair use of land, no one person should need to or be enabled to own land, it should be unnecessary. There would be no need for anyone to move unless they are occupying more land than they need to. Huge tracts of land were "taken up" in the beginings of our countries exsistance, by a few, by force and deception. It should be relinquished".

Ummm, who decides this? How would it be determined if you are occupying more land than they need to? Kind of a lotto thing? Is 40 acre's the limit? Can I get 40 acre's in say, down town New York city? if so count me in.

A interesting plan for sure.

"I think our future with free energy is much more promising than without it."
I sure hope so.


Thanks: Steve220

[Farmhand]

You really are going.

"After free energy, should come the fair use of land, no one person should need to or be enabled to own land, it should be unnecessary. There would be no need for anyone to move unless they are occupying more land than they need to. Huge tracts of land were "taken up" in the beginings of our countries exsistance, by a few, by force and deception. It should be relinquished".

Ummm, who decides this? How would it be determined if you are occupying more land than they need to? Kind of a lotto thing? Is 40 acre's the limit? Can I get 40 acre's in say, down town New York city? if so count me in.

A interesting plan for sure.

"I think our future with free energy is much more promising than without it."
I sure hope so.


Thanks: Steve220

The community I guess, Haha I don't really know. But the system now make's no sense to me. Those are just my thought's.

It would be hard to know what others think if they don't say, so I do. It wouldn't be up me that is for sure. I don't need much land to live and while someone else has more I should be ok to stay here.

It is a controversial subject so I will leave the subect alone.

Cheers

[Steve220]

Don't need much

Yeah, I don't need much land either and I am happy just where I am at too.
I do understand what you are saying about the current system.