Spark-gap + Step-down-transformer = OU?

[broli]

If you think about it wouldn't it kind of cause a cascading runaway effect.

When the field of the solenoid is reduced due to the biasing toroid, the solenoid will generate more current in order to conserve the flux, but by doing this the flux of the toroid which has been built up will drop so it too will generate more current to conserve its own flux. So both currents keep rising?

Even though both currents are rising, inductance is reducing linearly during this current rise, as permeability has a linear relation with current. In the energy equation this would mean that as inductance is reduced linearly the current is increased quadratically.

However I think you should discharge both coils at the same time when collecting the inductive energy, to prevent one coil decreasing it's current (energy destruction) when the other stopped operating.

[nilrehob]

@broli

What if we focus on the electric field in an inductor?
The voltage instead of the current?

We have E=½*L*I²

If we substitute I with Φ*N/L (from Φ=L*I/N) we get

E=½*L*(Φ*N/L)²=½*Φ²*N²/L

If we now substitute Φ with V*t/N (from V=N*Φ/t) we get

E=½*(V*t/N)²*N²/L=½*V²*t²/L

Now if we put this into COP=Eout/Ein (and assuming t is common) we get

COP=V²out*Lin / V²in*Lout

Now this looks more like a Tesla-coil doesn't it?

/Hob

[broli]

@broli

What if we focus on the electric field in an inductor?
The voltage instead of the current?

We have E=½*L*I²

If we substitute I with Φ*N/L (from Φ=L*I/N) we get

E=½*L*(Φ*N/L)²=½*Φ²*N²/L

If we now substitute Φ with V*t/N (from V=N*Φ/t) we get

E=½*(V*t/N)²*N²/L=½*V²*t²/L

Now if we put this into COP=Eout/Ein (and assuming t is common) we get

COP=V²out*Lin / V²in*Lout

Now this looks more like a Tesla-coil doesn't it?

/Hob

That's a lot of textual equations . I have to think this through before I can respond in any sensible manner.

[broli]

Today my inductance meter arrived so I could measure stuff much less painful.

So I measured the toroid's inductance when the windings were closed packed. It was around 2.9mH then when I spaced them out completely it go to 2.88mH. This decrease is really way too little to be useful. And perhaps even flux dropped too slightly.

So I don't think a closed loop like this has merit.

However, kind of in the same spirit there's something else I'm currently experimenting with. To spare me lots of work I'll just give the link where I posted the info:

Eliminating induced emf in motor and transformer.


Currently I'm building the 3 coils. Have one completed 2 more to go.

[broli]

Over the weekend I experimented with the above concept and did lots of simulations.

Although there seems to be a net field in the solenoid preferring the coil with the smaller area, the setup has to be bigger to amplify any induced voltage because the net field seems to be very low. Since voltage is frequency dependent due to rate of change ratio, the frequency needs to be much higher than the used 60Hz. However any wave form can do. The other problem also lies in the inductive impedance of the coils at these high frequencies, so for say 1 amp of current you could need 100-200 volt. Currently this is beyond my abilities. I hope others with the resources could explore this. It could potentially mean tapping unlimited power from the big coil during operation.

The next thing I like to mention is something which goes back to this thread and GB's post. That is changing the permeability by magnetizing the core in manner that is perpendicular to the main field. This would reduce the permeability and force the current to jump up. The question is whether the gained energy is just the energy you put in the perpendicular field.

However using this same technique we could explore other ways. To reorient/disorient the domains of the core.

User ltbolo discovered that a high voltage spike can do this.
Selfrunning Free Energy devices up to 5 KW from Tariel Kapanadze

I believe this is similar to how a hard hammer strike can disorient and sometimes kill a magnet. So if this strike takes less energy than the increased inductive energy due to the permeability drop we have a winner. It would be all about collecting it at the right time when the core is being disrupted. Also since inductance drops it can be shown that the energy can be collected in a very short time period, that is as joule heating at least. haven't analyzed it with a cap.

The equation that shows this is:



You can easily plot this function and see what happens when you change f. As stated f is basically the ratio of inductances. Both I and L are affected by this, I rises proportionally and L drops proportionally.

[nilrehob]

That's a lot of textual equations . I have to think this through before I can respond in any sensible manner.

Maybe I should have written that
instead of looking at the energy in a coil from a momentum perspective
we should perhaps look at it from an impulse perspective,
and thats what I did in the post above.

Impulse in a coil is Φ*N=V*t
So You get E=½*V²*t²/L

In this way current is unimportant -> don't have to kill the dipole
And we don't have an N in the formula!
Maybe this is Tesla impulse technology.

/Hob

[nilrehob]

Maybe I should have written that
instead of looking at the energy in a coil from a momentum perspective
we should perhaps look at it from an impulse perspective,
and thats what I did in the post above.

Impulse in a coil is Φ*N=V*t
So You get E=½*V²*t²/L

In this way current is unimportant -> don't have to kill the dipole
And we don't have an N in the formula!
Maybe this is Tesla impulse technology.

/Hob

So one layer with N turns as primary
and then one layer with bifilar N/2 turns (each) in series as secondary
then spike it!

/Hob

[Inquorate]

Only one way to find out ps these threads may help- my efforts before thinking of adding a second coil after the pickup diode..

Bedini coil Tesla Switch Hybrid - Heretical Builders
Universal Battery Charger - Heretical Builders
JOULE THIEF EXCITER bedini hybrid torch - Heretical Builders[/QUOTE]
i'll be getting a pic chip this weekend and playing with the concepts.
Wish i was any good at maths

[nilrehob]

So one layer with N turns as primary
and then one layer with bifilar N/2 turns (each) in series as secondary
then spike it!

/Hob

After some additional thought I have come to the conclusion
that my formula efforts in this area are quite silly

Something is missing
EDIT: me devoting time for experimentation is missing

/Hob

[rave154]

INQ,

ill help you out with the C as much as i can, but im far from an expert in C ( Delphi is my domain )

[Inquorate]

INQ,

ill help you out with the C as much as i can, but im far from an expert in C ( Delphi is my domain )

Thanks Rave, i was going to order one locally but the one you got seems to be a better dealy eagerly awaiting the package, it should make many of the things i'm planning on doing a little easier.

hw - ByVac PIC32-Basic

[nilrehob]

hw - ByVac PIC32-Basic

Interesting board!
Runs at 80MHz (compared to 16MHz on the Arduino) I like that!

/Hob

[rave154]

INQ,

the version of basic that it comes with is very well featured, has user definable Functions which basically gives you the ability to create your own language.

Also has good old peek & poke, which enables you to set/read multiple ports pins all at the same time rather than one at a time.