What would happen if...

[Inquorate]

We built a magnetic field in a coil, then but off current at the same time as we tripled the inductance? Would whatever equations govern this process predict an energy gain? Or is the energy we 'store' as a magnetic field going to give us the same return no matter what the inductance is? Image0778.gif

[Web000x]

Inquorate,

How is the baby?

Sorry I never got back to you on the results of your Bedini/TS Hybrid. I didn't have any good results so I drifted away.

I think you'll find some answers in the following posts.

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post118569

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post118630

Eric Dollard mentions the importance of changing inductance or capacitance with respect to time for energy synthesis. I don't think it matters how you do it so long as when they are charged with a source that the charging waveform is varied with respect to time.

I'm sure there are multiple ways to do this.

Good Day Sir,

Dave

[Inquorate]

Thanks Dave the baby is getting up to more and more mischief every day. Will take a look at the posts.

[rave154]

INQ,

assuming the equations work out the way they "look"....

since L-total = 1/L1 + 1/L2 in parallel

and L-total = L1 + L2 in series...

then how about energising two coils L1 & L2 while connected in parallel, and allowing them to collapse (through a diode to a cap etc etc ) while connected in series?

[nilrehob]

We have some discussions about this here that might be of interest:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...former-ou.html

/Hob

[Inquorate]

INQ,

assuming the equations work out the way they "look"....

since L-total = 1/L1 + 1/L2 in parallel

and L-total = L1 + L2 in series...

then how about energising two coils L1 & L2 while connected in parallel, and allowing them to collapse (through a diode to a cap etc etc ) while connected in series?

i like the looks of that math. Will consider it over tea and biscuits.

[Inquorate]

We have some discussions about this here that might be of interest:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...former-ou.html

/Hob

will take a look, thanks

[Inquorate]

Ps anyone know how to rig a hall effect transistor to switch off in a magnetic field? I want to use one if it's possible, to turn the transistor off, like a reverse reed switch.

[rave154]

attatched, charge & discharge circuits..though switching to change the coils from parrallel to series isnt in there.

[broli]

In the thread nilrehob gave is exactly what you want. There's no question that the coil's inductive energy can be increased, the question is at what cost. It's all about increasing current and dropping inductance proportionally so the equation E = 0.5 IČ L gives you more energy.

Changing windings will change current but not overall energy.
Changing area requires mechanical energy to make it smaller, but would give inductive energy increase.
Changing length is the same as the area argument.

What's left is permeability. If you somehow can make the core of a coil momentarily vanish with relativity little energy, you would have a sudden inductive energy gain.

Creating any magnetic field requires energy, and when created like mass it wants to remain constant. The above changes all try to drop this field, in reaction it will increase its current to maintain the field, this increase is the cause of inductive energy increase. You can see the magnetic field as momentum and inductive energy as kinetic energy.

This is that thread summed up.

[Inquorate]

In the thread nilrehob gave is exactly what you want. There's no question that the coil's inductive energy can be increased, the question is at what cost. It's all about increasing current and dropping inductance proportionally so the equation E = 0.5 IČ L gives you more energy.

Changing windings will change current but not overall energy.
Changing area requires mechanical energy to make it smaller, but would give inductive energy increase.
Changing length is the same as the area argument.

What's left is permeability. If you somehow can make the core of a coil momentarily vanish with relativity little energy, you would have a sudden inductive energy gain.

Creating any magnetic field requires energy, and when created like mass it wants to remain constant. The above changes all try to drop this field, in reaction it will increase its current to maintain the field, this increase is the cause of inductive energy increase. You can see the magnetic field as momentum and inductive energy as kinetic energy.

This is that thread summed up.

a very informative post, thankyou.

So i'm guessing this wouldn't work..

Parallel charge series discharge.jpg

[broli]

that concept can be placed in the first category. Changing inductance by windings.

You charge both coils and discharge their combined field with 1 coil. This like taking 2 coils one with x turns and other with 2x turns. You charge up the coil with 2x turns, then you open it's circuit and close the circuit of x turn coil. Yes the current will be 2 times higher than what was in the 2x coil thus energy would increase by factor of 4 due to that, but then the turns also decrease by a factor of 2, so energy would decrease by 4 times. Thus the net inductive energy remains unchanged. Because both are to the 2nd power in the energy equation.

Both current and turn amount are squared in inductive energy. So changing turns won't give you and increase. What aren't squared are area, length, and permeability.

This is for a solenoid inductor. Other shapes have other behaviors. For instance a flat spiral coil has a completely different behavior. But just remember one thing, you want an inductance change that is disproportional to the current change. If your inductance drops 2 times you current has to get at least higher than 2 times. If you can see this on a scope you have a winner.

[Inquorate]

that concept can be placed in the first category. Changing inductance by windings.

You charge both coils and discharge their combined field with 1 coil. This like taking 2 coils one with x turns and other with 2x turns. You charge up the coil with 2x turns, then you open it's circuit and close the circuit of x turn coil. Yes the current will be 2 times higher than what was in the 2x coil thus energy would increase by factor of 4 due to that, but then the turns also decrease by a factor of 2, so energy would decrease by 4 times. Thus the net inductive energy remains unchanged. Because both are to the 2nd power in the energy equation.

Both current and turn amount are squared in inductive energy. So changing turns won't give you and increase. What aren't squared are area, length, and permeability.

This is for a solenoid inductor. Other shapes have other behaviors. For instance a flat spiral coil has a completely different behavior. But just remember one thing, you want an inductance change that is disproportional to the current change. If your inductance drops 2 times you current has to get at least higher than 2 times. If you can see this on a scope you have a winner.

thanks. Might give it a try anyway, see if the extra current overcomes the fluffy charge problem inherent in 'radiant spike' chargers..

Other than that, i think i'll in back to trying to milk gravity for a little extra.

Good luck with the toroids guys, read the thread and it seems interesting.

Love and light

[broli]

Ps anyone know how to rig a hall effect transistor to switch off in a magnetic field? I want to use one if it's possible, to turn the transistor off, like a reverse reed switch.

Why not have it bias another transistor. When it's in the field it lowers the base voltage of some other transistor, vice versa if it's out the field.

[nilrehob]

I'm not sure where to post this now
as we have too similar threads
take a look at my latest posts here
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post127367
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post128984
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post129008

Maybe You're onto something Inquorate?

/Hob