Turtur Zero Point Energy Rotor

[Matos de Matos]

Hi Everybody:

I am not sure if somebody started a thread about Dr. Claus Turtur zero point energy converter. He showed a HV device spinning in water a while ago.
YouTube - Turtur Zero Point Energy Rotor

Now he come up with a cylindric magnet rotating inside a coil, like a magnetized rotating core?

Turtur, C. (2011). DFEM-Simulation of a Zero-point-energy Converter with realisable Dimensions and a Power-output in the Kilowatt-range. PHILICA.COM Article number 219.

Any comments?

He is inviting everybody to replicate it. Anybody interested?

David

[seth]

Hi Everybody:

I am not sure if somebody started a thread about Dr. Claus Turtur zero point energy converter. He showed a HV device spinning in water a while ago.
YouTube - Turtur Zero Point Energy Rotor

Now he come up with a cylindric magnet rotating inside a coil, like a magnetized rotating core?

Turtur, C. (2011). DFEM-Simulation of a Zero-point-energy Converter with realisable Dimensions and a Power-output in the Kilowatt-range. PHILICA.COM Article number 219.

Any comments?

He is inviting everybody to replicate it. Anybody interested?

David

Simply fascinating!!! I would love to replicate it. It'll take me some time to get my hands on the gear, and i understand that its all about the tuning, which could well take some time, but im game. For at least a month im busy, but after that, ill have a go.

Ive only speed read the text so perhaps i missed it - what is he using to suspend the magnet? I wondered if he was thinking about a levitating one. Obviously using a bearing will be less efficient....or would it? Perhaps it wouldnt matter as long as the rotating and electrical parts were in resonance.

Thanks for the great link

[pault]

I read his 2010 paper and I'm most interested in following his work. Thanks for posting this. (Has he got a mailing list or some way of notifying people of his work?).

After I finish reading this paper, I'll know if I want to attempt a replication of this particular device ...

pt

[ashtweth]

Thanks for positing the host site seems like a place where you can freely publish your work also . Know the Dr well he emails us from time to time, i see that where he is at is the same place where the universities are at, they are now able to get "nano" reactions" or pull a small part of the ZPE off .

There is a lot of ZPE there, wonder why they can only pull a small amount off

[Matos de Matos]

I read his 2010 paper and I'm most interested in following his work. Thanks for posting this. (Has he got a mailing list or some way of notifying people of his work?).

After I finish reading this paper, I'll know if I want to attempt a replication of this particular device ...

pt

I found his page:Some of my Work on Physics
and a paper with some of his work http://www.wbabin.net/physics/turtur1e.pdf

From his page:
"“A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it” Max Planck

Why they have to die? Lets do a scientific social media revolution instead, to reach it faster.

David

[pault]

I've read the paper once and I'm quite intrigued.

Thinking out loud ...

If I understand correctly, he has not built one of these himself, but has only modeled it with the software.

I think that the device described in the final section is fairly simple - a coil standing vertically, with a round magnet suspended vertically within the coil. 9cm by 6cm. Spun up by hand, then continues to spin on its own, while generating electricity into a load.

The parameters for each experimental setup vary. We would measure what we can, then plug the values into the DFEM software and determine the values of the other components. [DFEM is a standard technique used by engineers to simulate structures that are too complicated to model using only mathematics.]

For starters, I would attach the magnet to a non-magnetic (?) axle and build a non-magnetic support for the axle that fits entirely within the coil. He's talking about 6,000RPM, so depending on the actual magnet used, the support would have to be fairly sturdy. It might be possible to have the axle protrude through the coil and have the supports outside of the coil, but initially I would avoid adding that complication.

Another thought is that maybe a simple Bedini-style 2-pole rotor (1N, 1S) could replace the round magnet?

If you guys got a different understanding from the paper, feel free to disagree with me.

pt

[seth]

I've read the paper once and I'm quite intrigued.

Thinking out loud ...

If I understand correctly, he has not built one of these himself, but has only modeled it with the software.

I think that the device described in the final section is fairly simple - a coil standing vertically, with a round magnet suspended vertically within the coil. 9cm by 6cm. Spun up by hand, then continues to spin on its own, while generating electricity into a load.

The parameters for each experimental setup vary. We would measure what we can, then plug the values into the DFEM software and determine the values of the other components. [DFEM is a standard technique used by engineers to simulate structures that are too complicated to model using only mathematics.]

For starters, I would attach the magnet to a non-magnetic (?) axle and build a non-magnetic support for the axle that fits entirely within the coil. He's talking about 6,000RPM, so depending on the actual magnet used, the support would have to be fairly sturdy. It might be possible to have the axle protrude through the coil and have the supports outside of the coil, but initially I would avoid adding that complication.

Another thought is that maybe a simple Bedini-style 2-pole rotor (1N, 1S) could replace the round magnet?

If you guys got a different understanding from the paper, feel free to disagree with me.

pt

I got completely the same impression of the text as you, and your thoughts on how the magnet would be suspended are intriguing. i think this is a build and lets see job - doesnt look too difficult. But the main question is - how do we suspend the magnet? Is it possible to levitate it somehow when its bulk is at 90 degrees from the horizontal?

Thanks for your ideas pault

[pault]

...
But the main question is - how do we suspend the magnet? Is it possible to levitate it somehow when its bulk is at 90 degrees from the horizontal?

Just a mechanical frame, aluminum or plastic. In the paper, he mentions that his design was toned down so as not to overload the coil and so that reasonable bearings could be used.

I'm guessing a disc magnet with a hole in the center. Aluminum axle epoxied in. Aluminum "H" frame with holes (or bearings) for the axle, bolted down to the working surface and maybe bolted or tied together at the top for more stability. The magnet's axle forms the cross-bar in the H.

Thin cardboard tube to wind the coil on. The tube slides over the H frame and encloses it. Tabs or something cut at the bottom of the tube to allow it to be glued into place.

If it really generates 1KW, we're going to need a hefty load (10 100W lightbulbs?).

Have you seen the R-Charge conference motor? The rotor is a two-piece round plastic shell that snaps together and locks the magnets in place. Something like that might work, too. A picture is here if you haven't seen it:

New Bedini 3 Pole Monopole Kit (molded frame).

I'm going to go play with the software and see if I can wrap my mind around the various parameters. Maybe design it for a few watts, then ramp it up later. Although, he does mention that the design self-adjusts downwards if less load is applied. More thought required.

pt

[Harvey]

The magnet in the coil reminds me of a Newman Motor with the axle pinned on the B axis of the magnet, instead orthogonal to it.

Before we declare that ZPE is being extracted, we would first have to address the standard EMF generated in the coil by the rotating magnetic field. That may not be an easy task because the vectors are changing everywhere in the calculations. It would seem at first glance that the flux density would be unchanging at all points in the coil during the axial rotation of the magnet. If we imagine the flux density as a series of concentric toroids whose catenoid region is axially aligned with the magnet axle, we see that the same density sweeps through the wire repeatedly for any point on the wire.

However that perception is based on an absolutely perfect and symmetric field. Any slight variation in the axle centering or the internal field alignment can result in flux changes in the coil thus leading to standard EM power generation as small as it may be. This could be very problematic to pin down and separate from the desired ZPE energy.

In the video with the floating can with fins and the disc shaped anode the doctor claims that no current is flowing. I propose that current is flowing but it is of such a small magnitude that he cannot measure it with his equipment. Electrons leaving the surface of the fins as they are attracted to the Anode produce thrust in accordance with Newtons Laws of motion. And conversely, Ions being attracted to the fins also impart energy on impact. If there is an electron current flow upward through the material, then there are forces involved which can cause rotation also.

It would be interesting to experiment with and without fins and alternately oriented fins as well. The appearance seems that he made the float and anode out of n aluminum can so it shouldn't be hard to do. You can cut an aluminum can with household scissors.

In Maxwell's writings he showed that a tapered field can cause acceleration within that field. So this too should be considered here. The Anode is small compared to the cathode (the water) so the E-Field is no doubt tapered. While Maxwell dealt primarily with magnetics, the principle still holds for electric fields as the flux density increases the closer you get to the anode. This can result in lift and a reduction of friction (and cohesion) between the floater and the water which helps to facilitate rotary motion by the other forces (Lorentz) caused by proposed current flow.

In this case I am not only discussing the DC current flow that would result from 10,000V being placed across 4 x 10^13 Ohms per Meter of air (or less since it just over water), but also the displacement current that is present when we try to charge up the 'capacitor' that the device represents by increasing the voltage on the supply.

Whatever the cause, it would be very interesting to have a clear and definitive answer and if that answer is truly ZPE then .

[pault]

A reading of Dr. Turtur's earlier paper

In trying to understand the principles of operation described in Dr. Turtur's new paper, I reviewed a previous paper http://wbabin.net/weuro/turtur2e.pdf (which appears in slightly rearranged/renumbered form on his website).

To cement my understanding, I had to write out what I think the paper said, in "lay terms".

If anyone is interested, here are my notes. Please feel free to post corrections or questions.

pt



At the beginning of the paper Turtur does some calculations with standard formulae and shows that electrons must be supplied with energy from somewhere, since their own energy is enough to sustain them for only 1.88x10E-23 sec. QED - there must be energy in the vacuum, ZPE. Other demonstrations of similar effects are calculated.

ZPE waves move at the speed of light, unless a field is present, in which case they move more slowly.

!!! KEY POINT !!! - diagram on page 13 shows 6 snapshots in time (vertically, downwards).

T0 shows a ZPE wave propagating through space at full speed, left to right towards an "observer" (the green arrow at the right).

T1 shows an electric charge Q introduced. Immediately, the ZPE wave slows down (blue - higher frequency, but travels more slowly from left to right). At the transition point between full-speed and lower-speed, a discontinuity appears (shown as a break between the red and blue).

T2 shows the case with the same charge, a bit later. The discontinuity has moved closer to the observer.

T3 shows the charge now removed. The ZPE wave goes back to full speed and overtakes the group of slower ZPE waves, shown as a crossing of the red line over the blue line.

T4 shows the moment at which the discontinuity reaches the observer. Momentarily, the observer experiences NO field effect.

T5 shows a moment just before the overlap reaches the observer. The amount of overlap has increased, as the faster wave continues to progressively overtake the slower wave. When the overlap reaches the observer, the observer experiences a moment of INCREASED field effect.

CONCLUSION: To build a machine that cyclically harvests ZPE:

(a) The machine must create the conditions for introducing and retracting a field, thus, generating gaps and overlaps.

(b) The machine must harvest ZPE when an overlap arrives. If the machine uses attraction (electric or magnetic), then it will experience INCREASED attraction. If it uses repulsion, it will experience INCREASED repulsion.

(c) The machine must "reset" itself at the moment a gap arrives. It will experience DECREASED energy during the reset. In attraction mode, it will experience less attraction, and in repulsion mode, it will experience less repulsion. In either case, less energy will be required to reset the machine, than that which is harvested in (b) above.


Turtur then ties a bunch of standard theoretical results with his theory.

In Section 10, Turtur shows the most simple electro-mechanical system that he could devise, that should be able to harvest ZPE - two charged masses connected by a spring - and cranks the math using accepted equations.

In Section 11, he introduces an extension to the Finite Element Method analysis technique (FEM), by introducing a time-based (i.e. dynamic) calculation of the effects of the fields, DFEM.

!!! ANOTHER KEY POINT !!! Fields do not move lockstep with a moving charge. Once a field has been emitted, it moves independently of the charge. Fig. 6 and Fig. 7 (which, I think, are captioned backwards) show the effective change in charge, emitted by particle 1 then experienced by particle 2.

When the particles move towards each other, particle 1 emits a field "packet" at time Ta. By time Tc, the packet will have travelled from where P1 WAS, to where P2 IS, a distance of X2,c - X1,a, shown as the blue arrow. The static Coulomb calculation is shown as the green arrow and is shorter.

The second diagram shows the case for particles traveling away from each other and the difference between the dynamic calculation and the static calculation.

The standard engineering practice is to ignore this dynamic case and to use a static Coulomb calculation.

Fig.s 9,10,11 show three tunings of the simple machine. Fig 9 tuning shows the machine gaining energy up to an asymptote, ZPE conversion to observable energy. Fig. 10 shows no gain nor loss of energy. Fig. 11 shows a loss of energy, including the initial classical energy, as it gets converted to ZPE. The machine can convert energy in both directions, from ZPE to observable, and from observable to ZPE.

Section 12 gives the Pascal source code for a DFEM for the simple machine, which produces an Excel file (CSV file, from the looks of it). One can import the file into Excel, then plot graphs using Excel's graph-plotting wizard.

Section 13 ties in some more theory.

Section 14 discusses friction and the "runaway" effect observed by some FE researchers.

Section 15 introduces the notion of ZPM - zero point mass, and leaves it's harvesting as an open research question.

pt

[tutanka]

ion wind

For me that phenomen is equiparable to an lifter, only design is different. An ion wind effect is generated using high voltage dc impacting to propeller similarry an wind generator.

[Matos de Matos]

For me that phenomen is equiparable to an lifter, only design is different. An ion wind effect is generated using high voltage dc impacting to propeller similarry an wind generator.

He did the same experiment in a vacuum, using oil and claims that did rotate in the absence of air.

Dr. Turtur new set up with coil and cylinder magnet is indeed similar to Newman´s machine.
I am null with electric and magnetic fields, but i feel that we are very close to tap into ZPE using probably a combination of both, Turtur and Newman.

[seth]

For me that phenomen is equiparable to an lifter, only design is different. An ion wind effect is generated using high voltage dc impacting to propeller similarry an wind generator.

In his old experiment the movement of the rotor was always to the opposite direction than that which would be caused by ions bombarding the angled rotor blades. As far as I can remember.

If this new one works, i think ion wind can surely be discounted - have a look at the link, its a very very different design to his old one.

[caru]

If it really generates 1KW, we're going to need a hefty load (10 100W lightbulbs?).

I read in the paper that it adjusts to the load, so if you need only 100 W, just put a resistor in series with one bulb.

EDIT: I saw that you already caught that. Well, I tried to change the load resistance from 28 ohms to 280 ohms in the DFEM parameters, and the extracted power goes down to 150 Watts, confirming what Turtur says about load-following capability.

[caru]

He did the same experiment in a vacuum, using oil and claims that did rotate in the absence of air.

Dr. Turtur new set up with coil and cylinder magnet is indeed similar to Newman´s machine.
I am null with electric and magnetic fields, but i feel that we are very close to tap into ZPE using probably a combination of both, Turtur and Newman.

I also remember I read that, he used vacuum and oil, so no water and air there.

Turtur is very convincing, indeed.

I tried to tamper with parameters in his DFEM simulation. It's a little sad that if you change the "dt" time step, from 0.0001 to 0.00000001, the calculated extracted watts go to zero. Someone pointed out in the corresponding yahoo group (it's been setup by Sterling, you all are invited to join it) that it can be an algorithm issue, and that's my strongest hope.
Actually, seems like the algorithm is not very accurate.

Then I tried to modify the initial revolutions per second from 100 to 10000. The device then extracts 0 Watts. At first, I thought that's wrong. Then I remembered that Turtur said that not only you can convert ZPE to classical energy, but also the viceversa. In fact, ZPE is in that case literally breaking the magnet to its equilibrium RPM. Very interesting!

In the yahoo group a guy also converted the pascal source to perl source. That is really needed, cause in linux it's difficult to compile a pascal program that uses windows extensions. Unfortunately, I can't compile the perl source yet because of a compilation error, so I hope that that guy or someone else fix the issue (I'm not well versed in perl, sorry).

Since when I'm interest in free energy, this is the first time that I really think that there is a valid open source solution to all humanity future energy needs!!!

THANK YOU DR. TURTUR!