Lead Acid Battery Desulfation

[ashtweth]

(Forum)
Lead Acid Battery Desulfation Forums

Ash

[nvisser]

I built one of them before and use it all the time.
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...sulfators.html
Vissie

[WeThePeople]

Sulphate is a predictable and essential result of normal lead/acid operation.

May I ask politely with no intent of causing a friggin flame war (Typical ) are you referring to the general purpose spike charge circuitry available for years, or are you trying to address the completely seperate Bedini (Fairly legitimate) spike-pulse approach.

Or are you perhaps starting an open comparison in this forum ?

Once again, people are horribly opinionated on this topic, they basicly suck and slam what isn't the belief in their camp at the moment, I hear I am suppossed to do "ATM" now...when did forums become acronym complicite ?

I just want the rules set before it begins.



Does it happen, yes it has to.

Can we stave it off, no not during cycle.

Can we clean it up, oh gosh yes.

Does Bedini have it cornered, not by many years, and many patents...



EDIT:
I forgot to mention this is essential in my opinion,
but inductive kick cricuits of old prove adequate.

The question I have is (Topic skew), do the Bedini approaches
revive more batteries than standard desulfator ciruits already do.

[mikrovolt]

The desulfation forum is about the Alistair Couper circuit
that appeared in homepower magazine #77 june/july 2000
http://www.alton-moore.net/graphics/desulfator.pdf


The Energetic forum is a much better place to discuss Couper circuit.


The Couper circuit; uses a 555 timer, that takes a charge and spits it back
into the battery as a train of DC pulses @ 1kHz.
The circuit does not use any outside power, just the battery.
It stings the battery with a narrow pulse, usually higher voltage than the battery.

{In April 2000 Tom Bearden contacted Jerry W Decker and John Bedini, RE JB's work.
regarding charging phenomena. see for your self where they were on batteries,
forming negative resistances in batteries and many others concepts.)
A summary of the last couple of years which means approx may 1998
Bearden on Bedinis' Negative Resistance Effect - 04/09/00



Now back to the couper, remotely different
Lets say you design your own battery tickeler.
pulse. a JT variant 12V @ 40mA for example
use tapped inductor for various voltages
the higher voltage for more stubborn sulfate.

What is desulfator function?
its not a charger at all.
Should not be compared to a charger.

typical comments why someone would build a battery tickeler:

" If I buy expensive batteries I want them to last." or
" It is better to prevent crystals taking over my battery." or " I just bought this battery last year. "
another comment : " if I leave it running on my car will the battery last longer? "

It is this preventative notion that Couper was trying to accomplish.
the purpose of the Alistair Couper endevour was to prevent sulphate buildup.

[mikrovolt]

The Alistor Cooper desulfator uses the battery as source.
It takes a charge stores it and sends it back as a pulse.
http://alton-moore.net/graphics/desulfator.pdf

As the battery de-sulfates it approaches a smooth waveform.
or we can say The extent of sulfation of the battery may be ascertained by measuring
the impedance of the battery. a non-dead characteristic the peak decreasing
A more recent update on de-sulfator technology found in patent.
https://www.google.com/patents/US8330428

Significance to bifilar coil shows it improves as it operates over wider range of frequencies
https://youtu.be/iwvA0ebhvfI

a look at another desulfator without bells and whistles.
https://youtu.be/RlfrATNwi58?t=648

Comparing desulfator methods and looking at oscilloscope
There are problems with not having pulse width (simple example above) and knowing when to increase
the duty cycle once you get past the dead zone. This particular battery pulsed at approx 29 Khz
while resolving the sulfation the waveform characteristic can be seen at 18:28
https://youtu.be/VSuMVAPqH-c?t=592

[ewizard]

I built that one in your first link based on that exact circuit in the PDF. I can't say it works all that well but it probably helps some. More recently I got a Schumacher 3 amp battery charger / maintainer which works great for bringing sulfated and weak batteries back to life. Got lucky to find it at a garage sale for cheap.

[wrtner]

This is the one that has been well spoken about:

https://www.homepower.com/view/?file=HP77_pg84_Couper
.

[RAMSET]

Where's Ash ?

Been almost 8 years since I last Spoke with him?
I see this Skype in his contacts but it doesn't seem to go thru ,asks me to sign up ?

but I already have a Skype acc't?

where's Ash?

would be nice to hear from him?
Chetkremens@gmail.com.
Ps
Paul
thx for the Link...[and others too]
saving old batteries would be very good indeed.

[Duncan]

Hi Ramset I seem to recall Ash was having a a wrestle with a cancer of some sort . I sincerely hope he's recuperating. This whole subject of de-sulphating batteries IMHO is germane to very many COP+1 projects researched here.
If you at once accept that the pulse technology correctly applied might render a battery fully charged far more efficiently than standard DC charging then the foundation for many COP+1 machines written about here is if not explained might be demonstrated.
It is assumed (by me) that pulsing a cell in series resonance , although that's shifting sand by definition would result in that happy state. Its perfectly debatable that such moves to stay in the beneficial area of a particular battery could well answer JBs looped mono pole system , The Tesla switch , The 3BGS, Figuera in fact far to many to mention when you think about it.
This thread may simply go and moulder in the back pages for another six or seven years but it would be remiss if I didn't post circuits and observations just in case someone's inclined to tinker. All the circuits involve resonance
here then is a circuit which caught my attention as the author considers using a PLL to sweep resonant frequencies.
http://dnp.s3.amazonaws.com/b/b5/Bat...se charger.pdf
I realise that the idea of a battery being 'resonant' is contentious to some even though I demonstrated the effect with scope shots. here is a pretty learned document on the impedance and conductance of cells and 'battery resonance'
http://dnp.s3.amazonaws.com/b/b6/battery resonance.pdf
I also repeat Alister's circuit and note that like me he finds that LA batteries do have resonant points
http://dnp.s3.amazonaws.com/b/b6/201...desulfator.pdf
Here is another resonant circuit
http://www.energeticforum.com/redire...pulsegener.pdf
The 'Battery expert' quoted in this article makes it very clear that piezoelectric is a distinct possibility !!! now that would answer a lot of questions.
It may seem odd to some that I would link to a 'coilers' page. the logic isn't hard to follow the Tesla coil guys have a common aggravation . Trying to track and hold resonance in very changing circumstances.
the acronym DRSSTC stands for Double resonant solid state Tesla coil . I see nothing wrong with pondering on these circuits and their ability to hold a battery in close resonance rather than a coil and Ive simply picked one of them at random to give direction whilst accepting it needs modification for purpose.
DRSSTC Driver Guide
kind regards Duncan

[aljhoa]

I have Trojan Deep-Cycle Batteries and

A progressive battery recovery method for improving heavily sulfated and old 12V batteries that restore lost battery capacity.



Al

[RAMSET]

I hope he is well

Duncan
thanks for the reply on Ash ,I surely hope he is well,[would be nice to know ,I will reach out a bit more] and thanks for all the info !
lots to ponder.

aljhoa
thanks for the recommendation.

respectfully
Chet

[spacecase0]

anyone here thought of using EDTA ?
I would rinse it out after I used it to fix the battery,
but have yet to test it out

[Duncan]

Hi Spacecase - I'm kinda at a cross -purpose here , what I posit is that the process folks tend to consider as restoring batteries is for quite a lot of the cycle actually supplying energy - very real usable energy - much faster than than any standard DC charging could. hence COP+1 systems - see for instance the tested time (in the links) to raise a batteries charge to 80% whilst dis-regarding the rest of the information which is very costly energy wise - Its phenomenal. It is clear those designing and building these circuits have only one consideration - restore the battery ! They are not considering,expecting or testing for COP+1 (only lunatics do that, don't they?) re read the detail with different eye's. I might advise that regarding all impulse charging that so called 'miraculously' restores batteries . Including this one where the 'impulse'
is supplied by di-electric breakdown and resonance found by watching the house meter until it stops or slows right down
Capacitive Battery Charger - John Saves Energy
Tuned impulses at resonance over part of the charging curve ? - It seems very effective regardless of source or voltage --- don't ya think ?kind regards Duncan