Permanent Magnets

[Dean2]

Opinions, insight???

What is the general opinion of the forum members, in regard to the following typical thinking? Anyone care to address any of these conventional thinking statements as true or false, or perhaps elaborate further?

“Present science says it’s not possible, the acceleration of an object via Permanent Magnets without lock-up, demonstrating the net gain of energy with no apparent input of energy.”

“The normal field from considering a magnet as a bar with two opposite poles, on each end, only produces a conservative field. That is, when one integrates the force from that field around a closed path, the overall net force sums to a Vector Zero. Hence, no work can be performed.”

“You cannot break the Lorentz Symmetry in your circuit or system, and thus violate the present Electrical Engineering Model, you will not and cannot produce COP>1.0 via excess free EM energy extracted from the vacuum.”

“The EMF induced in an electric circuit always acts in such a direction that the current it drives around a closed circuit produces a magnetic field which opposes the change in magnetic flux. There will always exsist a “drag” on a rotor or a back-EMF in all permanent magnet attraction designs of force.”

“Permanent magnets cannot perform work that would violate the first and second Laws of Thermodynamics. Having developed Energy Conservation and the Laws of Thermodynamics, the game is over for free-energy motors and generators. They just can't work. It's not a matter of looking for one special arrangement that works among millions that don't. There are exactly zero arrangements that work.”

“Of course, we now know with a certainty that the rotor of such a generator is subject to a magnetic back-torque that is proportional to the output current drawn, due to the operation of Lenz's Law, which states that: a current set up by an EMF induced due to the motion of a closed-circuit conductor will be in such a direction that its magnetic field will oppose the motion causing the EMF.”

[gyula]

...
My basic approach is breaking the magnetic symmetry. This is accomplished by creating multiple additional electromagnetic fields from the placement and movement of the permanent magnets. The rotor being magnets as well allows magnetic fields to pass through one another. This is where many new possibilities exist.

Six of these are forces are created in this video demonstration. Here’s an example - When the electrical conducting and magnetic rotor enters the “field” and begins to move all conditions change. The track rail (stator) is also an electrical conductor (static field) and the Moving Dual Permanent Magnets induce a Motional EMF and cause currents to flow.
...

Hi Dean,

Thanks for showing this interesting setup. Would like to ask that in case you had made the rotor out of ceramic magnets would it roll through all the same as the present rotor made from 'metal' i.e. electrically conducting magnets?
Is electrically conducting rotor a must? IF so, are eddy currents involved?

Thanks, Gyula

[Dean2]

ceramic, and eddy currents

Gyula,

I believe you would get the same effect if the ceramics were in the “track”, however not in the rotor. In the video one of the tracks has an aluminum rail (stator) another has a copper one, both are conductors, the outside material of the rotor is brass, also a conductor. It's like a linear motor in many ways. The elements that the PMs are made of are also conductors, that react as well, when passing through magnetic fields. There is “probably” some eddy current activity going on in the rail, but you would be hard pressed, to prove it. I have tried intentionally, introducing aluminum in the underside for eddy currents, however, they were counter productive.

On a side note, the PMs used are very strong, and the assembly designs further enhance the strength. Although ceramic could replace the track PMs, I believe they are rather weak.

[broli]

Dean2 amazing work, amazing setup and amazing disclosure. What GB mentioned should be part of your device it's also widely known as a rail gun.
But in your case the emf source is provided by induction as you mention. This is a very good example that EM fields are not conservative in the conventional meaning when dealing with velocity. This was also the big reason why Weber's electrodynamics got so much slack, which unified Ampére's force law, with electro statics force law and induction force law.

A bit unrelated but Tesla also thought of using the induced field in order to increase the applied field in a homopolar motor.

NOTES ON AN UNIPOLAR DYNAMO

So basically use the "side effect" to do something useful.

I'm really excited about this and which you much more success.

[gyula]

Hi Dean,

Well, I have never heard about your observation on the neccessity of using conductive rotor in a setup like that... thanks for the info. Yes, using ceramic magnets would give much less forces but my aim was ceramic magnets are electrically bad conductors.

Gyula

Gyula,

I believe you would get the same effect if the ceramics were in the “track”, however not in the rotor. In the video one of the tracks has an aluminum rail (stator) another has a copper one, both are conductors, the outside material of the rotor is brass, also a conductor. It's like a linear motor in many ways. The elements that the PMs are made of are also conductors, that react as well, when passing through magnetic fields. There is “probably” some eddy current activity going on in the rail, but you would be hard pressed, to prove it. I have tried intentionally, introducing aluminum in the underside for eddy currents, however, they were counter productive.

On a side note, the PMs used are very strong, and the assembly designs further enhance the strength. Although ceramic could replace the track PMs, I believe they are rather weak.

[Iotayodi]

Really interesting. I wonder if its possible using a closed loop or conveyor scheme. Great demonstration!

[Dean2]

conductivity

Gyula, Understood. The significance of the, “conduction” was after the fact. In early experimenting after I had achieved some level of success, I began rotating out various aspects, searching for improvement and understanding. Personally, I have discovered once I understand “why” something is happening I can make quick advancements. In this case, non-conductive rotors did not even move!

Still having endless magnets and very high magnetic fields, things demonstrated the “normal” lockup. I’m sure any of you that have worked with N50 neo magnets know, when you lock polarity traditionally – nothing is moving. Realizing this, is what also stimulated me to use copper as the rails on several tracks. Copper being the better conductor, versus aluminum. On a side note, the “brass” rotor and brass within the track is the better selection of alloys as well.

Understanding that I could induce and manipulate secondary electromagnetic fields (without power input) opened up a whole new understanding and approach for me. Breaking magnetic symmetry than simply became an exercise of trial and error. For a very long time I believed (I’m not sure what the accepted term is these days?) overunity was not possible. It was not until after I actually began to “believe” it was possible that I began opening my eyes to the possibilities.

I look forward to opening up more secrets by interacting with open minded, and experienced people like you.

[Dean2]

closed loop...

Iotayodi, greetings! In regard to the closed loop aspect. I don’t know if you noticed when viewing the video. The shorter aluminum track, the rotor is stopped and locked at the end of the rail. However, the copper track and the 3-meter track it is not. An aspect I was always trying to improve on was speed and torque. Improvements came from many places, including reaching much higher magnetic levels by concentrating flux fields.

During one breakthrough with speed (you have to understand that early attempts induced a very slow moving rotor) the rotor went right off the end of the track and dented a hollow core door. I then came up with a way to stop and lock the rotor at the end with opposing magnetic fields. Further speed improvements caused this solution to be insufficient.

One day (quite unexpectedly) the rotor just went right pass the stop and around to the underside of the track several centimeters. With this bizarre discovery (at least to me), I realized the track underside was a complete mirror of the topside and the rotor performed the same. With that knowledge I modified the end of the rail, rounding the metal corners, and removing all magnetic stops. Further modification so the framework suspending the track was removed to a degree as well.

If you notice in the video, the rotor continues on these two modified tracks off the end, and around the underside and back as far as it is allowed. I found this realization simply amazing at the time! I did eventually change the base of the three-meter track, allowing the rotor to make a 3-meter journey down and 3 meters back. At the time, I did not know how to modify the linear track allowing the rotor to travel “up” at a 90 degree to overcome the gravity. I did experiments with the track at about 30 degrees upward angles as well, demonstrating the ability for the rotor to over come a degree of gravity.

Understanding what is occurring, I see no reason why the loop could not be completed. That said, a linear motor certainly has it’s own possibilities. As you saw in the video, there is no problem of multiple rotors working side by side. When I demonstrate about 6 of them moving in tandem. Perhaps, because one is simply looking at a “video” the effect is lost. Most of us know that moving a handful of attracting and opposing magnets over a bed of the same are not going to perform as these do. My point is, I see the wheeled rotor as an “axel”, and simply adding a second one with a “train” car to it, does not seem to far fetched to me at all. Your thoughts?

[Joit]

I think the largest barrier in seeing a machine built that runs off permanent magnets is our current mental state. There’s no question in my mind that it is quite possible. However, present science says, “it’s NOT possible, that acceleration of an object via Permanent Magnets without ‘LOCK-UP’, demonstrating net gain of energy with NO apparent input of energy.”

My basic approach is breaking the magnetic symmetry. This is accomplished by creating multiple additional electromagnetic fields from the placement and movement of the permanent magnets. The rotor being magnets as well allows magnetic fields to pass through one another. This is where many new possibilities exist.

Hi,
Thank for your kind Words, i agree with you, the biggest Barrier is in our Head, when we dont have the right Picture there, to figure, how some Things do really work, and all what we got are some theoretically Assumptions how Things could be. I am sure, that there is way more symmetrie at Magnets as we may do guess.
In that case, it is allways better, to got a Imagination from something to follow one Track.

[broli]

I'm curious, is your next build a circular version?

[Dean2]

circular possibilities

I have started a version for experimenting in circular fashion. Although, I tend to have "too many" projects going on at the same time.Circbld4.jpg

[Dean2]

They say a picture is worth a thousand words. In reference to earlier comments on flux strength. Here’s an example of how easily the magnetic strength can be focused and increased dramatically. This simple technique here, of “pyramiding” the magnets almost doubles the gauss reading for magnetic power - and puts it where you want it. In the images see before and after – and a FEMM of the layout showing flux patterns. [ATTACH][ATTACH]FluxDens.jpg[/ATTACH][/ATTACH]

[bugler]

Dean2 I have read your three articles and I haven't found the desing of your device.

Could you tell us how you've done it?

Thanks.

[Dean2]

more pieces to the puzzel...

Here’s a shot under the hood of one of the longer 3 meter tracks. This is the most basic rotor, (see close-up) simply a conductor stuffed with a few magnets. Each end of the rotor has 4” (100mm) long PMs, ˝”(about 13mm) diameter I believe on this one (N50 Neo). It’s an 11” long (280mm) total length. Both sets of magnets are flush to the ends leaving a gap in the middle of about 3” (76mm).

So, two sets of poles, being pulled “down” by the attracting track PMs.
Rotor detail.jpg

[Dean2]

more polarity detail

See the image for some more detail on magnet polarity.Polarity detail.jpg