Milkovic solution? idea...?

[142857]

Ok, so I'm playing with my oscillator, trying to figure out a good way to derive ele from the work end.

you can see it working with no load here : YouTube - Bedini Milkovic two stage oscillator.AVI

So, then I attach a weight to the work end, if I counter weight the pendulum end I can maintain the same oscillations as with no wieght. So, I can add as much weight as I want, If I balance it...with that in mind....

Now I need someone smarter than me to tell me why this won't work:

I add a heavy magnet to the business end via an elastic band, and counter it's weight. I put the magnet inside a large coil and shake it up and down, like a shake up flash light.
Here is a short vid showing this concept in action: YouTube - milkovicIdea.AVI

It's impossible to read the meter in the vid, but this feeble set up is generating roughly 15ma pulses....I'm only using one wire of a bifilar coil, and my elastic is not adjusted for the best possible travel but rather for you to be able to see it in the video.

The question I have is if you add many coils and magnets to the work end and do this many times over. would your be able to harness all that back to the pendulum coil

Now I don't have the coils or magnets to set up what I'm postulating, I'm really just curious as to if anyone else thinks this makes sense? Anybody tried anything like this? Or if not why?

[FRC]

Looks good

Looks like you are getting somewhere.

FRC

[conradelektro]

Is vertical better than horizontal?

@142857: the rubber band holding the magnet dipping into the coil is a very good idea. I also like the magnets restricting the movement of the horizontal bar.

Now, how can one drive the pendulum with the electric energy from the coil?

Since this poses a veritable problem I came up with a "vertical idea", see:

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post134325

It is no longer a Milkovic pendulum, more a vibrator based on a rotating imbalance (which some call a "bouncer").

Greetings, Conrad

P.S.: I do NOT claim that it is my original idea, it is the culmination of all I have learned from others.

[142857]

Google Sketchup is cool

JUST, got google sketchup...

maybe to further illustrate what I'm suggesting

[woopy]

hi 142

make a short test

Before thinking of stacking a lot of coils i recommend you to short your single coil and see if the movement is modified.

Good luck and nice work

Laurent

[Matthew Jones]

One thing you can do to your generator is wrap a little metal around the outer part of the coil. Maybe even add it somewhere inside the windings. You'll have to make sure it doesn't cause a sticky spot but helps increase the flux around the wires.

The other thing you could do is add weight to the stick, then build a flat generator that actually has multiple poles. this would be tricky with the size your dealing with but it can be done.

Like I said before, you got a nice little machine there.

Matt

[142857]

Woopy...shorting the coil does limit the magnets movement but, when you short a coil it acts like a direct load, on this device however the pulses can't directly drive the pendulum coil, the timing would never be right. This would wind up being a matter of collection and redistribution of electrisity, presumeably charging caps some how that feed the bedini.

I'll post a video of this tomorrow, but, before work today I attached 2 leds to my leads(one in each direction) they alternately flash with the oscillation, bright...this surprised me a little so I kept adding ..... so using both of my wires in my bifilar coil and jiggling the magnet just like the last video it's able to alternately flash 8 LEDs to a solid brightness....my 26gague wire doesn't flux quite as much as the 23 but they both put out.

and matt, you are correct about the added metal, actually my lead clips on the coil are adding to my flux....2 clips is fine...4 is too much.

The big coil was not exactly designed to be a generator...just standard bedini.....I'm sure there are many ways to taylor a better coil for what I'm suggesting.

I'm going to use the coil I have and adjust my weight and elastics to optimise whats already going on and light as many LEDs as I can tonight.

I'd really like one of you smart guys to really wrap your head around what I'm getting at and help me forsee the reasons that this thing wouldn't be able to
run it's self.

I'd also like a little advice on how to collect these slow semi retarded alternating pulses....some sort of cap pulser or just little caps?

[conradelektro]

How to drive the pendulum once you got the electricity?

@142857: You probably get a nice amount of electricity out of your coil (or multiple coils), but what to do with it?

I have never seen a good and efficient way to drive the Milkovic pendulum. I guess, one has to apply some exact timing when putting power into the vertical pendulum which is usually pushed by hand.

Laurent (woopy) has found a nice way with his one-coil-one-magnet-attrapulsion-drive, but that is no longer the original Milkovic pendulum as you have. Matt (Matthew Jones) came up with his bouncer, a rotating imbalance resulting in a nod, which is also no longer a Milkovic pendulum.

- Your magnets (near the support pole) replace awkward springs, this is a step forward.

- Your rubber band lifting the magnet in and out of the generator coil is also a step in the right direction (the rubber band translates the jerky nodding of the horizontal bar into an amplified up and down movement of the magnet).

- Now you have to come up with a way to electrically "push" the vertical pendulum with the electricity from the generator coil (instead of giving it a push with your hand every now and then). And, as I said, I have never seen a convincing solution for that (even when assuming a steady electric power supply, like a battery).

Greetings, Conrad

P.S.: I plan to suspend some "rotating imbalance" from the ceiling, because I hope to get rid of "shaking the ground" by having a "vertical arrangement" instead of a "horizontal arrangement". But this "vertical arrangement" might take away all mysterious forces present (or not present) in a Milkovic pendulum or it might just shake the ceiling instead of the ground.

[Matthew Jones]

I'd also like a little advice on how to collect these slow semi retarded alternating pulses....some sort of cap pulser or just little caps?

One thing you could publish is your power use on your motor. I don't remember reading that part.

If were trying take the generated voltage from the generator side and apply it to the monopole pendulum driver, You could play with multiple spikes and see how far it would push the pendulum. To do this you turn your base resistance up to highest speed then go past that. On scope you'll see the coil spike multiple times. This will lower your amp draw significantly.

But if your already at the bottom of your running capability or if you can go further, then your going to need to collect the spikes in a capacitor, and the generated voltage in another capacitor. Then unhook the 2 caps, parallel them and fire the then energy back through the monopole. But this takes some good switching.
you'll need 4 caps total so 2 can collect and 2 can power. There will be some cost in all of that.

I know you put it all up but would write up the consumed power, and the recovered power from your system.

I could help you get started on somthing as far as a schematic.

Cheers
Matt

[142857]

? mine is being pushed electronically conrad ?? ...it's got a bedini circut and coil triggering the push.

and matt, i'll post more tomorrow, Got another little video, where I'll show & explain more .....right now, with the drive coil situated as is it runs best on 9V....if i mount it(coil) to the pend end I can get the voltage lower....it actually runs ok when balanced just right
on 4.5 but with the variance of the pendulum end jerking around I have too big a gap and doesnt give the pendulum quite the push it could if the gap were constant.

[conradelektro]

? mine is being pushed electronically conrad ?? ...it's got a bedini circut and coil triggering the push.

and matt, i'll post more tomorrow, Got another little video, where I'll show & explain more.

@142857: since you did not give any details (diagram, voltage, power consumption, timing) I thought that the "electronic push" is still in the planning stage.

Attached see an idea for a Milkovic Pendulum Drive.

Greetings, Conrad

[Hoxan]

@142857: since you did not give any details (diagram, voltage, power consumption, timing) I thought that the "electronic push" is still in the planning stage.

Attached see an idea for a Milkovic Pendulum Drive.

Greetings, Conrad

I think your diagram will not work because your coil/magnet setup is configured to mono phase rectifier. You have 3 coils and two will cancel each other, only one will produce power.
If you want to create polyphase system you need to adjust time of energizing coils in steps thats is equal to number of phases. For example if you want 4 phase, what is shown on your picture with 4 coils, you need to adjust hight of 1st magnet to 1/4 of magnet lenght entering a coil, 2nd magnet to 2/4, etc. 4 phases => division factor is 4.

Capacitor of 4700uF seems small if it is only power source & reed relays are designed for small currents. Infinitesimal current burst might destroy it.

[142857]

I picture it with all the gen coils being basically independant of one another, then they all do the same thing....i'm uploading a video now of one gen coil pulsing a dozen leds, along with a little further explination of this concept.

I think the bedini coil is plenty a sufficiant driver and can be optimised for a pretty low input. I'm shooting for 4.5

then a bunch of little generators....


1 pulse = 1 pendulum swing = 1 jiggle of the gen coils

If you can make the generators produce 4.5 or more for 1 jiggle you'd be in business. with a little timing and switching / collect and disperse circuits

[142857]

Lighting a dozen LEDs

last vid before a bit of a build modification:



YouTube - Milkovic / Bedini lighting 12 LEDs

[Matthew Jones]

Its about the amperage. How many amps into the motor how many amps out of the generator. Led can light from nothing. Total power. To make that thing run your gonna need around 225% more out than in, in watts, just to keep it running. And that may not be enough.
Thats the biggest key.

I wouldn't discount using the spikes or the step up or whatever of your motor.

The fixed coil is a good idea as well.

Matt