They say it can't be done The Same Metal Water Battery

[ibpointless2]

Many of us have heard of the Potato battery, lemon battery, and maybe even the water battery. This is where you take something like a penny which is copper and place that in the potato or water based substance with another metal such as aluminum. You put you meter across the metals and you'll get voltage. The voltage is coming from the galvanic reaction, one of the metal plates is giving up electrons to the other plate and over time that plate will corrode away and the cell will stop producing voltage.

Now lets say we get rid of this galvanic reaction so that the plates last longer. This is where we start to run into problems as many textbooks and websites will state that you need two dissimilar metal plates to get a voltage. If you use the same plates in water, such as distilled water, then what everyone says is that this can not produce a voltage. Well I got proof that you can get voltage from the same plates in distilled water. As to where the electricity is coming I don't know, but it exist.

Here's a video of me showing what I mean: YouTube - They say it can't be done The Same Metal Water Battery

Its the fact that plates are exposed to a dielectric material such as water that creates the voltage. This same idea also applies to capacitors, they too have aluminum plates separated by a dielectric and also can produce a voltage when never been charged or have been shorted out. There is something mysterious about plates separated by a dielectric that I can't seem to find information about anywhere.

I'm not going to state that this type of battery cell will last forever because water is the universal solvent, so the plates will break down over time. The time frame can be anywhere from weeks to centuries depending on what plates are used. I have test Graphite plates and they work just as good, if not better, than the aluminum plates. Aluminum will dissolve before Graphite in water so Graphite might be something to look at especially since graphite is not a metal.


I've compiled a list of some of the sites that say you can't use the same metals and get a voltage like what I'm doing.

“*If you tried two of the same coins together, penny - paper - penny for example, you would also see that coins with the same metal in them will not give you a battery at all.*“ Coin Battery Project

“A battery must have two electrodes, so meanwhile on the other electrode, a similar process must be taking place. If this second electrode is of the same metal as the first, then each electrode will charge to the same extent (voltage), and there will be no resulting difference between them. There will thus be no attractive force (electromotive force EMF) between them, and so no current will flow.” The Creative Science Centre - by Dr Jonathan P. Hare

“It is also possible to choose metals that have similar potentials. The more closely matched the individual potentials, the lesser the*potential difference*and hence the lesser the galvanic current. Using the same metal for all construction is the most precise way of matching potentials.” Galvanic corrosion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


A link to my blog about this effect
samemetalwaterbattery.blogspot.com

[Vickers]

Why dont it work when u plonk yer multimeter tips in that water? Which u must have tried obviously. I have. They dont work because NO earth.
Will always get voltage if physically touching the leads. Which is good. All electricity seeks earth. Or rather the shortest route to earth. Try the same test on non earthed rainwater collected in a insulated vessel. Like a plastic bucket etc... I guarantee u will be shocked. (non life threatening).

[ibpointless2]

Why dont it work when u plonk yer multimeter tips in that water? Which u must have tried obviously. I have. They dont work because NO earth.
Will always get voltage if physically touching the leads. Which is good. All electricity seeks earth. Or rather the shortest route to earth. Try the same test on non earthed rainwater collected in a insulated vessel. Like a plastic bucket etc... I guarantee u will be shocked. (non life threatening).

I don't think i fully understand you. You say it works because i'm touching the metal clip lead and that doing that gives the circuit a ground. The electricity from the cells don't depend on me touching the clip I have many cells of the same idea, aluminum plates in distilled water, that still get voltage even if i don't touch the clip. The video that I shown above was to show that it was possible and that I have found a way to perfect the voltage, where as before i was only getting around 100mV.

Here's a video of one of my smaller compact cells that I never touch shown here. YouTube - Small Same metal water battery 200mV

This video is the same compact design but demonstrating how some cells like to bounce around in voltage. YouTube - Same Metal Water Battery compact design

And here's a longer video on the original design I had and I show you in the video how to make this cell using stuff you already have in the house. Keep in mind that this was the original design and was to show that you could do this. At 8:50 in the video I show the voltage from this cell with me holding the plastic of the probes. YouTube - How to make a Water Captret Battery.MP4


And yes I do get those high voltages even when I'm not touching the clips. The High voltage is due to which plates work best with each other, I spent good time trying to find plates that work well together. Like I sated before they say you can't do this, same metals in distilled water should not produce a voltage, but it does. And I have tested the smaller compact design in a microwave oven (Faraday cage) and still got voltage so that rules out radio waves.

[ibpointless2]

I find that like a magnet the same metal water battery metal plates have a polarity to them. Like a magnet has a north pole and a south pole I find that the metal plates have a north pole and a south pole. One end of the plate will give me a positive voltage but flip it around and you can get a negative voltage. So this same metal battery idea could be magnetic?

here's the video
YouTube - Same Metal Water Battery Might be Magnetic



As to what increase the voltage is still up in the air but I have found what increases amps. Bigger plates and having them near each other will increase amps. As for Voltage I find that you must match plates, match there polarities and just fine ones that go good together.

As to where the energy is coming from is still the big question.

[Iotayodi]

One end of the plate will give me a positive voltage but flip it around and you can get a negative voltage. So this same metal battery idea could be magnetic?

Without magnetism there is no electricity. The north/south magnetic field of the Earth may come into play when reversing the plate. Taking a meter reading with the positive lead on a copper pipe in the ground, to a negative rod in the ground will give you a positive reading. Taking a reading with the positive probe on a tree root and the negative probe in the ground gives a negative reading. Some of us are still trying to figure that out.

As to what increase the voltage is still up in the air

Literally. Approximately every 6 vertical feet there is an 100 volt electrostatic field. !2 feet is 200 volts and so on. Also dont forget we are immersed in moving electromagnet fields from radio stations,cell phones,house wiring,power lines,rotation of the earth etc.
From your description it may be the distilled water is just conducting all the external electromagnetic fields in a non galvanic way. A test you could do is to place a florescent light with an electronic ballast close to the battery. You should see an increase in voltage.

[ibpointless2]

Without magnetism there is no electricity. The north/south magnetic field of the Earth may come into play when reversing the plate. Taking a meter reading with the positive lead on a copper pipe in the ground, to a negative rod in the ground will give you a positive reading. Taking a reading with the positive probe on a tree root and the negative probe in the ground gives a negative reading. Some of us are still trying to figure that out.


Literally. Approximately every 6 vertical feet there is an 100 volt electrostatic field. !2 feet is 200 volts and so on. Also dont forget we are immersed in moving electromagnet fields from radio stations,cell phones,house wiring,power lines,rotation of the earth etc.
From your description it may be the distilled water is just conducting all the external electromagnetic fields in a non galvanic way. A test you could do is to place a florescent light with an electronic ballast close to the battery. You should see an increase in voltage.

I put it in a Faraday cage (microwave oven) and it still produce voltage.

[altrez]

I put it in a Faraday cage (microwave oven) and it still produce voltage.

A Microwave oven will not stop a static charge or most forms of magnetic fields. That fact is very well documented. Please place your battery in a box shielded on all sides with AL foil and different sizes of chicken wire that is attached to a solid earth ground of at least 8 feet.

That is the only way I know to be sure.

-Altrez

[kcarring]

Nickel / SS312L HHO Battery

It's a cool concept. (This thread) I do know from experience, and goofing around, if you make a brute force electrolyser and you alternate plates, nickel and SS312L, when your done makin HHO, it acts like an (Edison) battery. In fact, even a normal hydrolysis unit does that, which is what gave me the idea to play with it. I'm not saying it's a "good" battery. The other thing that confuses me, is, like you've stated I've read "you can't use metals of the same type"... what is a lead acid battery? Seems to me both plates are lead? No? I've often though it if you have an electrolyser with massive surface area (like a battery) - you could treat it like a battery, and if your solar could afford it, on a very sunny day, keep driving it into hydrolysis, its only KOH or NaOH, it's cheap... seperate off the H2 and bottle it. Of course, this is a bit of a pipe dream because it had better be a "good battery" too...

PS Deposition of hydroxides on to a thin substrate or flakes in pockets / tubes is the key to amps vs. surface area. See Edison Battery Development and also "edsworkshop" on youtube.com

[ibpointless2]

It's a cool concept. (This thread) I do know from experience, and goofing around, if you make a brute force electrolyser and you alternate plates, nickel and SS312L, when your done makin HHO, it acts like an (Edison) battery. In fact, even a normal hydrolysis unit does that, which is what gave me the idea to play with it. I'm not saying it's a "good" battery. The other thing that confuses me, is, like you've stated I've read "you can't use metals of the same type"... what is a lead acid battery? Seems to me both plates are lead? No? I've often though it if you have an electrolyser with massive surface area (like a battery) - you could treat it like a battery, and if your solar could afford it, on a very sunny day, keep driving it into hydrolysis, its only KOH or NaOH, it's cheap... seperate off the H2 and bottle it. Of course, this is a bit of a pipe dream because it had better be a "good battery" too...

PS Deposition of hydroxides on to a thin substrate or flakes in pockets / tubes is the key to amps vs. surface area. See Edison Battery Development and also "edsworkshop" on youtube.com

Yes a lead acid battery is all lead but one plate is covered with lead oxide, which kind of makes it a different metal. My cells are the same, no oxide on any plates, and it produces a voltage.

[kcarring]

My cells are the same, no oxide on any plates, and it produces a voltage.

Yes. Interesting. I wonder if my HHO generator would have displayed a voltage, right from first startup. After a while, one side of each plate gets a deposit, too... which, like you say, makes it a bit different. When I rebuild my 120v, I'll test it when its totally clean of any deposits.

[Joit]

Many of us have heard of the Potato battery, lemon battery, and maybe even the water battery. This is where you take something like a penny which is copper and place that in the potato or water based substance with another metal such as aluminum. You put you meter across the metals and you'll get voltage. The voltage is coming from the galvanic reaction, one of the metal plates is giving up electrons to the other plate and over time that plate will corrode away and the cell will stop producing voltage.

Now lets say we get rid of this galvanic reaction so that the plates last longer. This is where we start to run into problems as many textbooks and websites will state that you need two dissimilar metal plates to get a voltage. If you use the same plates in water, such as distilled water, then what everyone says is that this can not produce a voltage. Well I got proof that you can get voltage from the same plates in distilled water. As to where the electricity is coming I don't know, but it exist.


Its the fact that plates are exposed to a dielectric material such as water that creates the voltage. This same idea also applies to capacitors, they too have aluminum plates separated by a dielectric and also can produce a voltage when never been charged or have been shorted out. There is something mysterious about plates separated by a dielectric that I can't seem to find information about anywhere.


“A battery must have two electrodes, so meanwhile on the other electrode, a similar process must be taking place. If this second electrode is of the same metal as the first, then each electrode will charge to the same extent (voltage), and there will be no resulting difference between them. There will thus be no attractive force (electromotive force EMF) between them, and so no current will flow.” The Creative Science Centre - by Dr Jonathan P. Hare

“It is also possible to choose metals that have similar potentials. The more closely matched the individual potentials, the lesser the*potential difference*and hence the lesser the galvanic current. Using the same metal for all construction is the most precise way of matching potentials.” Galvanic corrosion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



A link to my blog about this effect
samemetalwaterbattery.blogspot.com

I think there is a major flaw in classic Science, when they state, that one Plate gives up Electrons to the other.
Just take Graphite and Magnesium ie. There does nothing happen at the Graphite,
all what happens is at the Magnesium and the Solution where Magnesium is in. But the Graphite does not change at all. And this is with more Metals like this, that only one Plate does change by depleting stuff out from it, what sits down at the Solution. The second Plate acts in that Way not even like a Resistor, when you look on Gold for the 'positive Potential'


At the Moment i play around to make an own Capacitor, and what i see is, that the Plates should conduct at less Voltage, but block at charge. Some solutions for Electrolyt have Material in it, what makes Ions conducting and hold Charge on the Plates. Whatever Scientist want to explain with this.
I now still will play more around with the Idea of electrostatic Material,
because it shows, that this Stuff can keep the charge better as anything else.
Capacitors, AC-, even faster, and DC Capacitors simple loose her Charge over a very a short time or more Time.