The Edwin Gray Pulsed Capacitor Discharge Electric Engine

[toranarod]

More Work

Thanks guys
I had an epiphany when I read though plans for the Edwin gray motor.
I believe I can replicate the effect. Not so much his motor exactly but the enhanced effect he demonstrates. Combined with the knowledge I have gained from my other research with the Adams pulse motor.
I think I see something well I felt something.
I am not say I can do what so many other are also trying but I have an idea I must test.
Last night I converted a portion of the circuit from my Adams motor looking for what I think Gray did. I then I almost electrocuted my self from my test circuits.
After recovering from my burns I am now going on with this line of thought.
I haven’t been able to sleep yet I must get these ideas down on file and start drawing up the new motor. Lucky most of what I need is already built with in my Adams motor just going to add an extra platter to make a two tier rotor. Should only take a week to before I post results.

Your positive comments about going in the right direction have helped push this along even more.
Cheers.

[ltseung888]

Be very careful with bring-in energy!

Dear Rod,

Thanks guys
I had an epiphany when I read though plans for the Edwin gray motor.
I believe I can replicate the effect. Not so much his motor exactly but the enhanced effect he demonstrates. Combined with the knowledge I have gained from my other research with the Adams pulse motor.
I think I see something well I felt something.
I am not say I can do what so many other are also trying but I have an idea I must test.
Last night I converted a portion of the circuit from my Adams motor looking for what I think Gray did. I then I almost electrocuted my self from my test circuits.
After recovering from my burns I am now going on with this line of thought.
I haven’t been able to sleep yet I must get these ideas down on file and start drawing up the new motor. Lucky most of what I need is already built with in my Adams motor just going to add an extra platter to make a two tier rotor. Should only take a week to before I post results.

Your positive comments about going in the right direction have helped push this along even more.
Cheers.

Please be very careful with your experiments. Wang showed me the burnt wounds on his arm. My experience with the Tong Wheel at one time was a voltage spike of greater than 1000V, burnt the electronics and charred the wood. My friends did not believe that was possible as I was only using a 12V battery.

At resonance, the amount of energy that can be brought-in is theoretically infinite. We just do not know exactly how to control it yet.

May God bless you. Amen.

[toranarod]

zero point energy

Here is another down load.
http://www.thehydrogenshop.com/Over_...PDF/Edward.pdf
Any feed back on the PDF if you down load it

[toranarod]

an amazing photo

Here is a photo of an Edwin Gray motor I was sent.

[toranarod]

I have studied the concepts of Grays motor. Trying to replicate the motor to his exact plans would be impossible not in any time frame we have. We also have other technologies at out disposal that gray did not.

Gray appears to have used charged capacitors and discharged them into inductive loads creating large magnetic fields to push the motor armature with massive amount of force.

If we collect the energy from the collapsing magnetic field feeding it into a capacitor and then unload it into the motor coil and if I use the techniques from the Adams motor that I have presented in the other post to keep the system efficient as possible. We may able to replicate the grays techniques.

The problems to over come will be the charging time for the capacitors.
What I am going on is the cold current reversal of the multi pulse system will give a fastest charge time and no load to slow down the rotor. When the high voltage reaches a set potential it will get discharged into the coils. If the power of a coil gun or rail gun is any thing to go by it will be accelerated at a very high velocity. Then theoretically the faster the motor runs the quicker it will charge the capacitors.
Grays seem to have created a rotor with as many platters as possible. As v8 engines have 8 pistons and only fire one at a time.

The electronics to control this is now very possible actually I already have some of the systems. I will post a full functional schematic soon.

Things I am currently calculating are charge times and capacitor yield.
This is going to be very interesting because how long will it take to discharge the caps will be based on how much load the coils draw, If the discharge pulse is delivered in the same timing duration and timing to utilize cold current reversal. It may even be possible to use the collapsing magnetic field to charge the next capacitor bank.
This is all hypothetical at this time but I believe the concepts are sound.

[Shanjaq]

If all of the inductive element values are identical, with the inductive discharge of one coil charging a capacitor, the capacitive discharge will have "just enough" joules to charge the next inductor to the same level of saturation before the Source currents take over. The time constant for this inductive charge/discharge will be determined by the size of the capacitor(smaller = faster, higher voltage.) The more joules cycling through the system per second, the better...

[toranarod]

If all of the inductive element values are identical, with the inductive discharge of one coil charging a capacitor, the capacitive discharge will have "just enough" joules to charge the next inductor to the same level of saturation before the Source currents take over. The time constant for this inductive charge/discharge will be determined by the size of the capacitor(smaller = faster, higher voltage.) The more joules cycling through the system per second, the better...

I see the same problem. what I am hoping for is the faster the motor runs the quicker it will charge. I am projecting the motor will increase speed as it charges.

I have constructed and installed some of the circuits today. just need to do a little reprogramming of the micro controller. hope to test fire the first cap discharge tomorrow.

I have been very fortunate to gather some more information on Grays motor.
he was creating something truly amazing.

[ren]

Rod there are a couple of chaps myself included who have been looking at this concept for quite sometime. Weve been given some amazing ways to charge capacitors while isolating them from the source. I noted that Ed Gray employed a transformer to obtain high voltages quickly, as you say, the time it takes to charge the capacitor is vital, especially if this is to be discharging through motor coils in multiple phases.

So if one uses a 1:1 transformer one must push alot of current efficiently at a reasonably high input voltage at a reasonably fast frequency. Or one could have a multistrand oscillator with multiple capacitors being charged independently which are in turn discharged sequentially, giving time for the others to recharge. As you say the trick will be the management and monitoring of these methods, the ability to time and control the duty cycle of the capacitive discharge and the inductive discharge. Its entirely possible that when the capacitor discharges through the motor at higher voltages we can collect energy again and the cycle continues or is sent back to source or storage battery.

I made a simple video a while back, inspired by some of the conversations Ive had with chaps who have ventured a little father down the path. In it you can see a Bedini monopole charge 1040uF of capacitance to 300v with less than 12 watts input. Of course it takes time for the rotor to get up to speed, but once up and running it charges fairly well. Up that input voltage a bit and it would be even better. When shorted through the electro magnet it is very clear that if it was attached to a rotor we could get quite a kick. Repeating the process efficiently at high speed is the trick.

YouTube - Capacitive Discharge launcher


Ive been fiddling around with some solidstate stuff Im very interested to see what you come up with. I have a simple cap discharge circuit that should be good for 250-300v, the transistors are rated for 800v anyway. Something I found interesting, Im not entirely sure how the Toyota Prius is configured, but I have read that it has a 202v battery pack and a 500v electric motor. It would seem to me that that is a start, there must be some method employed to ramp up the voltage.



Regards

[toranarod]

Capacitors

Hello Ren
Very informative post I was pleased to read somebody has been thinking along the same lines.
Do you mind sharing your discharge circuit with me I would like to get some idea of what you have done it could be very helpful and time saving if I don’t need to repeat a already working circuit.
I will of course return the favor and share all my research data with you . Maybe some my design will assist your work.
What is the transistor type you have acquired that have an 800 volt rating?

I was informed by another researcher the primary OU output of the E.V.Gray technology was torque, not electron flow. He said the engine had several changes of state for each transition between poles. There were 27 changes of state in every revolution. That will take some vey serious electronics to achieve.

I run a few circuit simulations yesterday on my Robert Adams motor.
The force of the high voltage discharge destroyed the bearing in the rotor and the RF noise spewing out of the coils as the field collapsed scrambled the computers.
Today I build shielded boxes for the computers and install and industrial bearing in the armature. I am using 6000 gauss neo Magnets for torque and 0.5 ohm coils for High magnetic field discharge. Up till now I have had a 10 mm gap between my magnets and the coils with the new bearing that will close up to 1 mm.
I will also make changes to the computer to calculate capacitor voltage levels.
Yesterdays voltage was only 55 volts a very conservative figure.
I have 350 volts coming of the coils for charge but we can only realistically go to 70 % of a caps total charge. If we are to work with in RMS time constants

cheers

one other thing great video

[ren]

Hello Ren
Very informative post I was pleased to read somebody has been thinking along the same lines.
Do you mind sharing your discharge circuit with me I would like to get some idea of what you have done it could be very helpful and time saving if I don’t need to repeat a already working circuit.
I will of course return the favor and share all my research data with you . Maybe some my design will assist your work.
What is the transistor type you have acquired that have an 800 volt rating?

I was informed by another researcher the primary OU output of the E.V.Gray technology was torque, not electron flow. He said the engine had several changes of state for each transition between poles. There were 27 changes of state in every revolution. That will take some vey serious electronics to achieve.

I run a few circuit simulations yesterday on my Robert Adams motor.
The force of the high voltage discharge destroyed the bearing in the rotor and the RF noise spewing out of the coils as the field collapsed scrambled the computers.
Today I build shielded boxes for the computers and install and industrial bearing in the armature. I am using 6000 gauss neo Magnets for torque and 0.5 ohm coils for High magnetic field discharge. Up till now I have had a 10 mm gap between my magnets and the coils with the new bearing that will close up to 1 mm.
I will also make changes to the computer to calculate capacitor voltage levels.
Yesterdays voltage was only 55 volts a very conservative figure.
I have 350 volts coming of the coils for charge but we can only realistically go to 70 % of a caps total charge. If we are to work with in RMS time constants

cheers

one other thing great video

Thanks Rod.

The simple cap discharge circuit I use is just the solidstate cap dump circuit John Bedini designed. Basically a 555 timer regulates the dump frequency, with a little mod Rick F designed to allow some adjustment to the on time as well. The 555 sends its signal pulse through a LED for visual reference and then through an opto isolator, this one is the h11d1. From there it is a simple darlington arrangement, 2n3440 and parallel bank of HV transistors.

Erfinder got me onto these transistors, and I wanted to try them out, they are alot cheaper than the MJL21194's I was buying, I got 10 for $30AUD off ebay. They are the 2SC family, namely the 2SC5047 (800v, 25 amps) or the 2SC5244A (1600v, 30 amps). Designed for use in horizontal deflection output on CRT televisions. Ive yet to test them at anything over 120vdc. Im no chip guru, so I cant offer you much more than that. And my arrangements are fairly primitive compared to what they could be with the use of micro controllers and such. Im sure your design already surpasses what I have on the bench. Id love to see a simple PWM circuit that could trigger at a variable frequency, variable pulsewidth and also be triggered by a separate device, like a hall sensor. The output would simply need to pass through an isolator of sorts before triggering the HV HC switch.

I would recommend looking at the info Peter L has released on this motor, along with the "Gray Tube Replication" thread on this forum. While the tube may or may not be essential in this application (it is more geared towards commutation approaches) the thread is full of little gems and unusual behavior with a variety of circuits that mix high and low voltage discharges. The results are interesting, and often different to what one would expect.

I wanted to push the SG circuit hard to see what it was capable of with the above in mind. With the same motor as seen in the cap discharge video I ran 130VDC input, with a measly 24v bank charging on the backend (yikes ) Probably not the smartest way to go about it but nothing popped or exploded despite the batteries almost instantly jumping up over 16v each. It took perhaps 8-10 seconds in the last video for 1000uF to be charged up to 300vdc, with only 12v 1 amp max. @ 130vdc input those caps would be full almost instantly. And my input was still 1 amp. Could never figure that one out. Anyway here is the vid if you are interested.

YouTube - 120v Bedini monopole

And take a look at Erfinders too. A great little feature of charging the cap off one wire ala Bedini.

YouTube - SS SG driving shunt wound motor.mpg


Regards

[toranarod]

Thanks Rod.

The simple cap discharge circuit I use is just the solidstate cap dump circuit John Bedini designed. Basically a 555 timer regulates the dump frequency, with a little mod Rick F designed to allow some adjustment to the on time as well. The 555 sends its signal pulse through a LED for visual reference and then through an opto isolator, this one is the h11d1. From there it is a simple darlington arrangement, 2n3440 and parallel bank of HV transistors.

Erfinder got me onto these transistors, and I wanted to try them out, they are alot cheaper than the MJL21194's I was buying, I got 10 for $30AUD off ebay. They are the 2SC family, namely the 2SC5047 (800v, 25 amps) or the 2SC5244A (1600v, 30 amps). Designed for use in horizontal deflection output on CRT televisions. Ive yet to test them at anything over 120vdc. Im no chip guru, so I cant offer you much more than that. And my arrangements are fairly primitive compared to what they could be with the use of micro controllers and such. Im sure your design already surpasses what I have on the bench. Id love to see a simple PWM circuit that could trigger at a variable frequency, variable pulsewidth and also be triggered by a separate device, like a hall sensor. The output would simply need to pass through an isolator of sorts before triggering the HV HC switch.

I would recommend looking at the info Peter L has released on this motor, along with the "Gray Tube Replication" thread on this forum. While the tube may or may not be essential in this application (it is more geared towards commutation approaches) the thread is full of little gems and unusual behavior with a variety of circuits that mix high and low voltage discharges. The results are interesting, and often different to what one would expect.

I wanted to push the SG circuit hard to see what it was capable of with the above in mind. With the same motor as seen in the cap discharge video I ran 130VDC input, with a measly 24v bank charging on the backend (yikes ) Probably not the smartest way to go about it but nothing popped or exploded despite the batteries almost instantly jumping up over 16v each. It took perhaps 8-10 seconds in the last video for 1000uF to be charged up to 300vdc, with only 12v 1 amp max. @ 130vdc input those caps would be full almost instantly. And my input was still 1 amp. Could never figure that one out. Anyway here is the vid if you are interested.

YouTube - 120v Bedini monopole

And take a look at Erfinders too. A great little feature of charging the cap off one wire ala Bedini.

YouTube - SS SG driving shunt wound motor.mpg


Regards

I have a micro controller pwm to drive this with the variables you mentioned.
If your are interested in a data sheet on the controller Just say?

This is the drive circuit the MOSFETS will be changed for transistors when the voltage's get higher. Thanks for the Transistor data numbers I will get some of them and the price is good to.

[nodrog]

I watch with abated breath.

;-)

Kind regards, nodrog.

[toranarod]

me to

yes i agree its a long shot But somebody needs to have ago.
I have help on this on this.

[toranarod]

it worked

Today I ran the first test with the capacitor discharging into the second drive coils.
To my surprise it actually worked. I collected 350 volts from the main drive coils and stored it in a 47 uf capacitor. This really worked; it is possible to increase the RPM and torque of your motor with out drawing any more energy from the battery. I used all the same parameters as out lined in my Adams motor post. Except I used the back EMF to generate more power. It took 2 seconds to charge and then discharge the capacitor. Every time the capacitor discharged into the drive coils the motor under went shock acceleration the effect was very impressive. Like it was given a hit with a hammer.
The RPM was increase 3 time to what it was doing before the collected EMF system was activated. The faster the motor ran the quicker the cap charged. The interval time decreased until it seemed to reach a constant velocity. is this why Gray got so excited? I am going to be working on this with the intentions of expanding it.
My system is very conservative at this point and I have order my caps in higher ranges.
Another exciting thing was the collapsing felid of the second drive coils. This was an even higher voltage. At the moment it has not been easy to measurer because it’s off the scale of my scope and I have been more interested in the other parameters.
Lots of tuning to do and data to collect next post I will present some figures.

[penno64]

Hi Rod,

Looking good.

Sorry that I have not had much time to play with adams stuff.

Overly busy at work, and am hoping to get a go at the arduino micro controller
over the easter break. (Mind you, my other half has other ideas - holiday).

Great to see you going forward.

Penno