Possible working principle of Don Smith's device

[Jetijs]

Hi all.
I have an idea on which I need your opinion.
From the experiments with water spark plug circuits we know that it is possible to combine high voltage and low current with high current and low voltage and get high voltage and high current. This has been verified many times with many different circuits. The basic circuit that Aaron showed is shown here:

It uses a booster capacitor that is charged up to some 200-400V, this is then discharged through the thin thread of plasma, produced by the ignition coil. Result is a loud HV plasma discharge. So we know that both sources of energy (low voltage high current and high voltage low current) can be combined.

Now, lets look at LC resonance types. We have two types of resonance - series resonance and parallel resonance. Series resonance gives us increased voltage in the LC circuit which can be measured with a multimeter or seen with a scope. Parallel resonance gives high current in the LC circuit with almost no change in voltage, this can be measured with a sensing coil and a scope. So lets say we two LC circuits, one at parallel resonance and other at series resonance. And lets assume that their frequencies are the same and the phases match. Now we should be able to combine the high voltage from the series LC circuit with the high current from the parallel LC circuit just like this can be done in water spark circuits. Right?

Now, lets look at Don Smith's setup:


He has a high voltage primary LC circuit in parallel resonance. This is to excite the secondary part. Of course the primary capacitor is matched with the primary coil to resonate at the frequency the neon power supply puts out, this is to get the maximum energy transfer to the secondary part of the circuit. Now lets look at the secondary part. We have two inductors and a capacitor arranged in a interesting way. One inductor is parallel to the secondary capacitor and other inductor is in series. What does this mean? We have two resonance types in the secondary part - series and parallel, this means we have lots of voltage and lots of current. The best part is that the inductors are the same and thus resonate with the capacitor in the same frequency. Both resonances are in phase.




You know like Tesla coils have always high voltage on the top terminal of the secondary coil and the most current on the bottom grounded terminal? Here Don takes advantage of that fact getting voltage from one coil and current from other coil through the diodes to the last capacitor that stores the energy. The parallel LC coil might need to be wound in opposite direction. Also this concept makes it clear why by changing the position of the primary coil in respect to secondary part can adjust the output voltage and current. It all depends to which coil in the secondary part you give most of the energy, if the primary coil is put into the center of the secondary parallel resonance coil, then you will get lower voltages and higher current on the output. If the primary coil is put in the center of the secondary series resonance coil, the output will be of higher voltage and lower current.

So this is the proposed circuit:



Primary side needs to be in resonance. If your HV power supply has a set frequency that can not be changed, then you need to adjust the C1 and L1 value to match the LC frequency to that of the power supply. On the secondary part, L2 and L3 need to have exactly the same inductance, and C2 has to have a capacity so that the secondary part oscillates at the same frequency as the primary part. The C3 is just storage capacitor, needs to be rated for HV and high capacity.

So any thoughts? Seems very straight forward to me.
Thanks,
Jetijs

[Armagdn03]

I think this is a concept you should work on, however one small correction,

In a parallel LC at resonance both current and voltage are increased, voltage does not decrease.

watch the potential field increase as we hit the resonance of the coil in this video. this is a parallel LC circuit

YouTube - Resonance cont

[boguslaw]

Jetijs

Very good man. I think you are approaching solution
One important thing is missing : 1/4 wavelength resonance. Add it here and that's almost all I think.

[Jetijs]

Thanks for your input guys
Well, a friend of mine already tried a similar setup on low voltage using a signal generator with 20V peak to peak. All three coils were identical so that both the primary and the secondary capacitors can also be the same value, this way if you hit the resonance in the primary part, you automatically get resonance also in the secondary part of the circuit. He reported that something usefull came out only from the secondary parallel resonance part and series resonance did not contribute at all. Might work differently on HV. Maybe the thing is that the voltage on the secondary series resonance LC part comes from the primary part electrostaticly? Maybe the magnetic component in the air core supplies power to secondary parallel LC part and the electrostatical component supplies power to secondary series LC part, This would explain why this only works on high voltage input.
Anyway, knowing about parallel and series LC circuits and the fact that low current high voltage and high current low voltage can be mixed, Don's setup makes perfect sense. No mystical fields, ethers, electron spins and other stuff.
I will keep you updated about our experimental results

[Jetijs]

Jetijs

Very good man. I think you are approaching solution
One important thing is missing : 1/4 wavelength resonance. Add it here and that's almost all I think.

Can you elaborate more on this? I don't really get the 1/4 wavelength thing and why it should be needed.

[bboj]

1/4 wl. When the coil resonates it does so at nodes of a wave. It can also be 1/2, 1/1 of wavelenght. It depends on frequency of the discharges assuming that the disturbance travels at the speed of light. In short. The lenght of the secondary coil should be as close as possible to the 1/4 wl to resonate at highest possible q.

[Itsu]

no way

Hi Guys, there is no way the coils at the picture will resonate around 32Khz (neon PS frequency).

The Secondary probably resonates in the 4-7Mhz range, and the primary much higher (tens of Mhz).

Also the wavelenght story smells fishy, as the wavelenght for 32Khz is about 30750 feet, i would like to see you wrap that as an air coil.

I think you should forget the Don Smith picture/setup, but i guess Jetijs wants to explore the principle of the coil setup (parallel/series combination), but then with more realistic coil/frequency(wavelenght) values.

The question is, should you go up in frequency (several Mhz range), or more easier stay at around 32Khz and adjust your coils/core/capacity to that (15mH / 1.6nF) and forget about the wavelenght match.

Just my 2 cents. Regards Itsu

[Jetijs]

Why shouldn't the coils resonate at 32KHz? It is an LC circuit, coil alone wont resonate at that frequency, but if a large enough capacity is put in parallel to that coil, its natural resonating frequency will be lowered. In my tests I measured that primary coil like smith uses has an inductance of around 10-15uH. Smith uses a cap in parallel with a capacity of 2.2uF. So put those values into an LC calculator and you get a frequency of around 27-33KHz. So it is perfectly plausible. On the secondary side, he has a smaller cap, 0.9uF if I remember correctly. This is also understandable, because on the secondary coil he has higher inductance coils, higher inductance means lower frequency, so to match the primary side frequency he needs a smaller value cap on the secondary side than that of the primary side. Still very straight forward and logical.

[Joit]

I would -not- forget about the Picture/Setup from the Page, because it seems like it is the original Device from D. Smith.

L1 has its Reason to be shorter but thicker,
you can create in a Coil also enough Energy, when you only excite a certain Range at a Pickup Coil,
but the Exciter Coil should not be longer then 1/4 - 1/3 from the Pickup Coil.
You dont need to wrap 2 Coils over eachother. But here it seems to be importend, to get all in Resonance, even the Source like the HV Transformer to the other Coils. Also used D. Smith for L2 a spaced Coil,
what changes the Properties from the Pickup Coil also.
What i did now play around with it, i could light a 5 W lamp very dim with about the same Watt input (8V/0,6Ah Input) at L2 without a spaced Pickup. I can measure the same Voltage as in L1, and couple Ah but seems my DMM goes anyway crazy on it.
Right now i need better HV Source, because i burned a few with the Sparks, what i create anywhere. But mainly i think, you need to tune all 3 Coils well,
HV source, L1 and L2.

[Jetijs]

Yes, tuning is the key. A high capacity variable HV cap would be great, but I don't think there are such caps anywhere. Smith had the advantage of these caps specially custom made for him. He did not have to bother with tuning at all. He just wound the primary and secondary coils, measyred their inductances and the frequency of his power supply. From that data it is very easy to calculate the needed capacities, and if those caps can be custom made specially for you, you have no tuning trouble I think so far that the best method for us to tune the setup would be to use one big HV cap with the capacity a bit smaller than needed and then just put several smaller ones in parallel till the needed capacity is reached. The big capacitor could be a microwave cap for example, and the smaller finetuning caps could be those cheap HV creamic caps.

[Jetijs]

Another thing that leads me to believe that it wont work on low voltage and HV is needed in order to electrostaticly excite the secondary series LC circuit, is that Don does not use a PVC, cardboard or any other insulating material tubes on which the secondary coils could easily be wound. Why? I heard that these coils are made commercially and they are this way as is. But why buy them if you could wind one in few minutes? This could be because electrostatic component plays a major role here and an insulator between primary and secondary coils would just kill that effect.
Just brainstorming here

[Farmhand]

In one of Don Smiths video's where he is sitting in the backround and he has an assistant doing the demonstration ( possibly his son ) the demonstrator make's a point of mentioning the "casimir effect". I'm not sure what device they are demonstrating, But it seemed to be producing a lot of power. In the video they have a scope setup with about 5 traces on it. I'll try to link the video, but at the start of the vid he says if the video is not intended for you to turn it off now. I just assumed it was meant for me.

From wiki
Casimir effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Though this is disputable because I read a post by John Bedini where he says that the casimir effect wouldn't power anything much at all, and definately would not power a house.

One of them seems to be mistaken.

Here's the video- the demo starts at about 1.40 mins into the vid.

Don Smith Free Energy - Video

Cheers

[Joit]

Tuneable Caps
My Opinion, it is not electrostatic, but electromagnetic.
Source here at Chapter Induced Electrical Energy System

Collection and transfer of energy requires temporary storage, which occurs as capacitors and coils of a resonant circuit are cycled, on and off. The frequency at which the capacitors and coils are pumped, determines the amount of electrical energy that moves onward.

The amount of Energy transferred relates directly to the density of lines of flux present. The Kinetic Energy Formula is helpful in establishing the amount of energy present. This formula squares the velocity times mass. In the case of electrical energy, the intensity of voltage and amperes multiplied by the cycles per second, replace the velocity component.

Note that the "acceleration" of the Voltage "E" and Amperage "I", which increase as non-linear components, then obeys the Law of Squares.

Each unit of increase, causes a squaring of the flux lines present. The amount of energy transfer caused by this increase in flux lines is demonstrated below.

[bsibille]

Don Smith

I personally feel conflicted about Don's work, have studied/replicated it for a while and even in communication with him via email a couple of years ago, but unable to reach him of late. He claimed all of the mock ups you see out there were working OU models. Main principles were Radio Frequency operation (no resistance or heat loss) and resonance. But, as you see today, many replications fit this model but don't get the results as described. Get the Pat Kelly write-up if really interested. Best to all trying...

[Armagdn03]

@ jetis

Question:

In the water spark plug experiment, are they really "combining" high voltage and high amperage? Or....are they changing the impedance of air, by causing a phase change in plasma, reducing the ohmic resistance and causing a path for the high current to flow.

In my opinion ohms represent a balance in voltage vs current based on the properties of the medium in which the energy manifests. For example, I could easily mix 1 amp with 1000v in the same wire, right now, but would not have 1000watts.

I think this experiment was misunderstood. It has implications, how to stimulate high current flow, by leading with a HV phase changing pulse which brings the electrons in the medium into a conductive state in the outer valence shells. But, it does not combine them.

My guess is that if you could get the same current flow with the high voltage and without, the plasma would react the same. I dont know if this has ANY bearing on what you are trying to accomplish, I just personally think that wrong conclusions were drawn from that experiment.