Possible working principle of Don Smith's device

[dutchguy]

resonance coil length

I agree with Jetijs. If you do the numbers you need a large capacitance to get resonance with a low inductive coil.
The reason Don uses low inductive coils is because you get low resistance in your LC tank, hence longer current displacement in resonancecoil, hence more flux action.
Don also says the secondary coils need exact 1/4 or 4 times length of the primary and you get a automatic lock in of the frequency. The reason why is unclear to me, but it has something to do with the 1/4 wavelength.
Imagine a sinus, the action is not in the nodes but in the peaks and that is on 1/4 or 3/4 wavelength. Just at thought. @Jetijs, my build of your bedini charger (the straight forward one with 2N3055, a coil and some diodes) still works like a charm in my barn here in Holland) I used wound CAT-6 cable coil and 50V dc input, charges my bank of 12V1200Ah like a charm

[Aaron]

mixing high voltage and high current

In the water spark plug experiment, are they really "combining" high voltage and high amperage? Or....are they changing the impedance of air, by causing a phase change in plasma, reducing the ohmic resistance and causing a path for the high current to flow.

In my opinion ohms represent a balance in voltage vs current based on the properties of the medium in which the energy manifests. For example, I could easily mix 1 amp with 1000v in the same wire, right now, but would not have 1000watts.

Both - is makes the gap more conductive and hv and high current is
combining. But like you say, 1 amp with 1000v on the same line doesn't mean
it will be 1000w, but there appears to be an increase.

When charging inductors in this impulse, the impedance of the coil seems
to reduce, not just the resistance of the gap. The cap discharges faster
than an open air short/discharge.

When adding the joules of potential sitting in both caps from both sides,
it should only launch an object of a certain weight to a certain height
at 100% efficiency. I launched a magnet of a certain weight to a certain
height and the math says it requires x joules of work to lift it to that
height but I did it with less.

There is one old technology that mixed high voltage with high current
but in a different configuration. It has been mentioned in this thread but
we're not discussing it anymore. It causes a "synthetic" power gain
by blending the HV and high current from two separate sources. Again,
I agree with you, it will not simply multiply the HV by high current, but
there is a gain.

Anyway, ionizing the gap to make it more conductive is only one way.
This entire process can be done without any gaps if done correctly and
that applies to the water sparkplug circuits.

[7imix]

I tried to explain it visually. My understanding of this comes from Eric dollard's explanation in the video where he shows measuring the resonant frequency of the coil of coax and the tesla coil. Please let me know if this can be improved in any way.


Quarter wavelength by 7imix, on Flickr

Eric dollard also explains a bit more in the sbarc video where he talks about measuring atmospheric pressure at different points in space in the room. All the measurements of atmospheric pressure are the same even as the xyz positions of the measurement change. This is a scalar function. However if you measure the height of the person sitting in the room at a particular xyz coordinate, the height of the person changes as the xyz coordinate changes. This is not a scalar function.

In the case if a quarter wave resonant coil, if you measure at the open end of the coil, the voltage should be scalar (not changing) in time -- because when the waveform is flipped in polarity and travels back down the coil, it's phase and polarity matches perfectly with the next impulse from the driver circuit.

If you look at this image it's obvious why don smith used a center tapped secondary. It's at this point in space that there is a stationary wave of both reasonable voltage and current.

[Aaron]

clarification

Anyway, ionizing the gap to make it more conductive is only one way.
This entire process can be done without any gaps if done correctly and
that applies to the water sparkplug circuits.

Clarification - can be done with water sparkplug circuit if gap is replaced
with an inductor.

[Armagdn03]

Clarification - can be done with water sparkplug circuit if gap is replaced
with an inductor.

Very interesting, thank you for sharing your advanced knowledge of this. perhaps I will have to pick your brain sometime if you are open.

[Aaron]

@Armagdn

Armagdn, it is a little more involved than just that but the concept
is the same.

I'm looking forward to more of Jetijs' experiments.

If you have a cap and discharge it into a coil and the voltage of the cap
decreases to a certain voltage over a certain period of time and then
you do something that makes the same cap discharge into the same
inductor but this time, the cap discharges 2/3 of the voltage in maybe
1/5th the time, from your understanding, what allows a cap to discharge
faster than "normal"?

[Itsu]

Wow, this thread moves fast.....

Jetijs, i agree that you can calculate every frequency with the proper L and C input, however that is not what Don Smith himselve proposes.

He wants to stick as close to the natural frequency of the wire/coil as possible to keep the Q as high as possible, see http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Chapter3.pdf page 41 where he states:

b. Use natural frequency (coils have both capacitance and inductance), that is match the wire length of the wire in the coil to the desired frequency

In it he also states to work in Mhz range (24.7Mhz).

Furthermore you can see on page 47 and 43 that he uses a 47nF capacitor in L2 and a .2uF (200nF) cap on L1 (also to be seen on the picture of your starting post).

Together with your 15uH L1, (i measured 12uH on my own L1 coil) the resonance frequency will be around 91Khz.
For this frequency to be 32Khz, the L1 would need to be 130uH.

So i still doubt that the setup seen above is resonating on 32Khz.
Could it not be that it works on the xxth harmonic of 32Khz due to the Gas Discharge tube (spark gap) as also being mentioned on page 43 near the bottom where it says:
"and if the pulsing frequency matches the resonant frequency of the L1 coil (or a harmonic of that frequency), then" etc.

Best of luck with your experiments, regards Itsu

[Armagdn03]

Armagdn, it is a little more involved than just that but the concept
is the same.

I'm looking forward to more of Jetijs' experiments.

If you have a cap and discharge it into a coil and the voltage of the cap
decreases to a certain voltage over a certain period of time and then
you do something that makes the same cap discharge into the same
inductor but this time, the cap discharges 2/3 of the voltage in maybe
1/5th the time, from your understanding, what allows a cap to discharge
faster than "normal"?

That is a good question. i have not done the particular experiment and do not know because of this. However, I do know this....Phase changes, matter changing from one state to another, constitutes an octave jump in the material world. (plasma)

Quote:

"This is the phenomena (BEMF) noticed by
Heinrich Lentz but for which he had no substantial explanation. The events were chalked up to the idea
that nature always tries to conserve energy, and that in fact, no elemental energy is ever gained or lost.
Nature certainly wishes to conserve energy. Nature also wishes to make more energy at every
octave level."

[Jetijs]

Hi all
Armagdn03, you are right, the water spark circuit does not exactly multiply the voltage and the current, but still as Aaron pointed out, there is a gain. I see it like this, you have electrons - mass, and you have voltage - pressure. If you combine them in a clever way like in the water spark circuit, you essentially accelerate electrons and a mass that is accelerated up from a previous speed has more energy. Here is an example, think about sand blasting gun and what it can do, how it can remove rust or paint from metal suraces. How does it do that? It has two components combined. Sand - mass, and air pressure. If you have only pressurized air, you can blow it on a painted metal all day, nothing will happen. The same thing is if you have lots of sand and a showel to throw it on that painted metal surface. You will have to do it for very long time to get the job done. But if you combine the two, if you accelerate the sand particles using air pressure, you will remove that paint from the metal with ease and very fast, expending small amount of energy. I think the same happens in Smith device, you just need to supply the secondary side of the circuit with a mass to accelerate (current) and enough voltage to accelerate that mass. The concept of combining both resonances still stays valid. Another thing. I remember that Greg from water spark thread made some scope shots of the voltage on the capacitor that is being discharged through the primary of the ignition coil. You could see that the voltage decreases steadily to very low value in several uS. Now, if you put a HV diode and connect the positive of the capacitor through the diode to the positive HV output so that the diode points in the direction of HV and prevents it to pass to the cap, you see a different scope shot, at one instant you have full capacitor voltage and then just like that there is nothing there anymore, no steady decrease in voltage, just a vertical line as if the cap discharged in an instant. The same happens also in circuits where a booster cap is used. I mean that cap even if shorted by a piece of wire will need some time to fully dischargem but not in a plasma spark circuit, there it happens instantly. So what is that thing that accelerates the discharge? I think it is the high voltage or pressure. Another way to look at it would be a wind tunnel, you have a steady wind of 100km/h, now you throw in a small ball in that tunnel at a speed of say 50km/h. If the ball is light enough, it will accelerate.

Itsu, you are right, I had the cap values wrong on Smiths original setup. He uses different frequencies, but nevertheless the idea proposed in the first post still stays valid.

My friend who made the test on low voltage showed me scope shots of the load on the cap if both resonances are combined in the proposed way. Only if he used just the parallel resonance for the output, he had a perfect sine wave, if the series resonance was added, a high frequency ring was superimposed on that sinewave. It looks very similar to what I already saw in other experiments and it signals, that the series resonance coil resonates at its resonant frequency and does not use the capacitor in series. That is why both frequencies are different and mixes together. So maybe there needs to be an additional capacitor for the series resoance that Smith took out so that it wouldn't be obvious what he is doing. I might be wrong, but I read somewhere that Smith stated he deliberatelly left something out so that no one would be spoon fed. I could be wrong of course. But it makse sense. That is why on the low voltage nothing much could be obtained from the secondary series resonance part, the frequency just did not match. So I will need to test this out.
Thanks,
Jetijs

[boguslaw]

Jetijs

Don was throwing a lot of very tangled tips with all those various schematics.
I think he tried to tell us " I can't tell you but look at this schematic and that patent and listen what I'm taking about them then connect all dots"
Most his devices require grounding to get current.
Like this YouTube - The Lie

[Farmhand]

Jetijs, If you are talking about this Device it can be clearly seen that item #9 "Frequency control", is missing from the drawing. I think you may need to find out what the part is and where it belongs in the circuit. I mentioned this in one of the other Don Smith Threads. Why is this not a problem ? And how could it possibly be overlooked when trying to figure out the device ? Or is this what you are talking about ?

http://koyg9g.bay.livefilestore.com/...nSm.jpg?psid=1

I think this is the drawing for the device you are discussing, and I can't see item 9 can you ? If so could you point it out ?

Cheers

[Farmhand]

I don't know a whole lot but it appears the device in your drawing is wired like this.
http://koyg9g.bay.livefilestore.com/...002.JPG?psid=1

And Don's drawing is wired like this one below, except I added What I would try as item #9 and where I would try it. The secondary looks center tapped and wound from the center out the same way, as in if looking at it with one end to the left and one to the right the coil starting at the center tap go's down and around but winds to the right and the other goes down and around also but winds to the left. Or they both go under and around one left one right.

http://koyg9g.bay.livefilestore.com/...001.JPG?psid=1

I may be wrong I admit but the device in your picture is not wired the same as the Don Smith Drawing. I don't think he would have made the drawing completely wrong like that, he just omitted item #9 in my opinion.

Can i ask you who's device it is in the picture in the first post ?

Cheers

[Guntis]

Hi Jetijs

i don't know why, but i think Don Smith has make a Fake Device based on some Theory.
----
About Three potentials Sand & Air = Work (i like it)

if we looking at the coil then there are Two Magnetic potentials who give result and it represents as third potential.

"The one electromagnetic potential is a HARD medium (like sand)"
"Other part are Electrostatic magnetic field (like air)"
"Resulting part is Work potential and represents by itself Strong magnetic field"


Just for play and fun i like to post some my early experiments.




And Bigger: Tests_Archive-023.png.zip

[wayne.ct]

Good idea Jetijs

I have also studied Don Smith's work and I think the principle must include resonance AND length of wire in the coils (transmission waves) AND dual frequencies AND maybe something more. Good luck and I'm looking forward to hearing your newest results.

[boguslaw]

Hi Jetijs

i don't know why, but i think Don Smith has make a Fake Device based on some Theory.
----
About Three potentials Sand & Air = Work (i like it)

if we looking at the coil then there are Two Magnetic potentials who give result and it represents as third potential.

"The one electromagnetic potential is a HARD medium (like sand)"
"Other part are Electrostatic magnetic field (like air)"
"Resulting part is Work potential and represents by itself Strong magnetic field"


Just for play and fun i like to post some my early experiments.




And Bigger: Tests_Archive-023.png.zip

Hi
Regarding schematic you posted. If HV part ground would be insulated from low voltage ground would that work also ?
Also : what is inside copper pipe on schematic ?