Ignition Secrets by Aaron Murakami - *** NEW RELEASE ***

[mire]

I searched the post but may have overlooked

The reason i posted is because i didn't see the plug working in any motor.

i could not find what is claimed, or the benefits of its uses, other than producing a stronger spark?

perhaps I am missing the point here, but i do understand the combustion engine and how it works.

because some said it did not work with MSD is why i posted, not to be a critic of your devise.

i saw your movie, and saw you say the implosion of the spark is like a back emf or something. is there some type magnetic component?

i would like to see not the circuit that is being sold but the claim of why i should use it over conventional ignitions.

If its not broke don't fix it. does it give horse power? thats what guys like me are interested in, but the fact remains it would be very little gain.

does it give 30 extra MPG? that would be worth something.

thanks

[Aaron]

plasma ignition

The reason i posted is because i didn't see the plug working in any motor.

i could not find what is claimed, or the benefits of its uses, other than producing a stronger spark?

perhaps I am missing the point here, but i do understand the combustion engine and how it works.

because some said it did not work with MSD is why i posted, not to be a critic of your devise.

i saw your movie, and saw you say the implosion of the spark is like a back emf or something. is there some type magnetic component?

i would like to see not the circuit that is being sold but the claim of why i should use it over conventional ignitions.

If its not broke don't fix it. does it give horse power? thats what guys like me are interested in, but the fact remains it would be very little gain.

does it give 30 extra MPG? that would be worth something.

thanks

You didn't see it working in your motor? Please post pics and/or vids of your installation so we can all see your setup.

It is NOT a stronger spark - it is not even a "spark" at all. Benefits and claims? It is listed in about 40 years of government, SAE, etc... documents on "plasma jet ignition" systems. Leaner running for same power, reduced emissions, etc...

I understand the ICE as well but your comments still don't address the plasma itself. You keep saying "spark" or "stronger" spark, etc... that tells me you haven't researched anything on the subject.

You have misunderstood what I said about some saying MSD wouldn't work. I said some experts on the plasma ignition could not get the plasma effect work worth my method on an MSD, which I have succeeded 100% of the time. That is what I said.

I never said the plasma is an implosion that is like back emf or anything similar to that. But yes, there is a strong magnetic component to the plasma impulse.

The "why" of using the plasma again is spelled out in tons of literature over the decades. Bottom line, more power, more MPG, leaner mixtures no problem and reduced emissions. And if there is water added to the equation, it cracks that on contact.

The "fact remains there would be very little gain"? How do you know if you have never even tested it?

The only thing that can sabotage it is electronics like the o2 sensor, etc... there are other ecu chip enhancements that can get around the sabotage without altering sensors.

[mire]

Ill leave that up to you.

I am not going to go reading other patents on the subject.

I only asked what your claim was, in your words.

I am guessing it is untested as of yet? Posting numbers of gains, or fuel mileages has not been tested? I guess it is still in the works?

you simply have not made any claims, no real world testing?

I was interested in what could be claimed, and expected from using it.

To all the younger fellas building cars, MSD ignitions systems are designed to have the ability to adjust timings at WOT, and part throttle. Rev limiters and such that will allow for smooth power across the board, and prevent pre ignition, or detonation by advancing or retarding timing. The gain is in the range of 1 to 3 HP if you are lucky, but you also have options, and they are programmable.

For the novice Money should be spent on getting more fuel, and air into the system. Even A MSD system isn't going to make (much)of a difference at all.

I just wanted to see the numbers, because i have seen just about every devise on the market. All of them make real world claims.. None ever live up to them.

The split fire spark plug actually worked, it was years ago when I installed them into my car. slightly smoother idle, slightly better mpg. they cost about 3 bucks each.

Today i simply use copper plugs, and its just as good because i also have the MSD system, and a higher compression ratio, larger fuel injectors, fuel pump air flow meter. ETC..
I don't want to see any suckers pay hundreds of dollars for something, and get burned.

I hope you are able to work it out in the future what may be expected, and have testing in writing, and certified. good luck on your testing, and keep up the good work.. .

[masster]

very good points.
I myself would also like to see at least one video showing the installation on a car, and even more important, real honest-to-God numbers showing MPG, power, CO, etc.

[Athal]

Dyno's are nice but can be expensive if you don't have a free hookup.

Dear Aaron,

I've discharged the extra vids and I've found very interesting the approach of the "coldstart ignitermod.pdf" of the Canadian National Renewable Energy Laboratory about using leaner moistures and retarded ignition degrees:

"Retarding the spark timing to well after piston top dead centre was highly
effective for reducing hydrocarbon emissions when used in combination with
stoichiometric or slightly lean mixtures. This approach could increase exhaust
temperatures by about 200°C over the usual values, which would be expected to cause
the catalytic converter to “light-off (attain high oxidation efficiency) earlier than
normal. The ability to use such a calibration strategy was limited with conventional
ignition as engine stability would degrade excessively."

They focused on cold start engine emissions, but it would have been a fantastic opportunity with the engine hooked up on the dyno to test the plasma ignition itself and provide some comparative torque-hp dyno charts.

However, the charts comparing high energy plasma discharge with stock inductive ignition are priceless: High energy in short time (plasma) against low energy discharge and long spark duration of stock inductive ignition. In fact CDI ignitions only outperform inductive ignitions when multiple dicharge are enanced. I prefer a longer burning time of an optimal inductive ignition than a standard CDI multiple discharge system. But multiple discharge using Plasma is other thing...

Also they have tested firing after TDC: "Despite the control loop stability problems experienced while using plasma jet ignition, it was apparent that the engine was not operating at or near its misfiring or stalling limit with 0"
spark advance. Additional circuitry was added to the apparatus to delay the trigger pulse fiom the GM coil drivers that provided the spark timing signal for the plasma jet system. With this setup, spark-timing values as late as 30" after top dead centre (ATDC) could be explored. We have called the region of spark timing settings after TDC (i.e., during the expansion stroke while
the piston is descending) "extreme spark retard."

"The use of extreme spark retard proved to be a highly effective strategy for reducing hydrocarbon
emissions."

But they don't say nothing about torque generated by doing this.

"In summary, at equal lambda and spark-timing settings, results using plasma jet ignition
differed from those with inductive ignition in the following ways:
Higher exhaust unburned hydrocarbon concentrations and mass flow rates
Lower indicated specific fuel consumption
Lower coefficient of variation of indicated mean effective pressure
Lower exhaust temperatures."

But again nothing about engine output.

Please Aaron, release dyno tests as soon as possible!!!
Regards
Athal

[Athal]

Dear Aaron,

this guys have tested a plasma ignition in the dyno:

Plasma Ignition Dyno Testing - YouTube

But something in the vid makes me think that they dont have done a good ignition cable isolation work. Also they are not using modified "JET" sparkplugs.

But the gain they claim to have obtained I supose that is over a CDI Ignition (what they call "standard ignition" and not over the inductive stock ignition. So I think that gains over the inductive ignition would be more serious.

Also they have left everything untouched but the Ignition: they have not experienced with different (retarded) ignition curves, and moistures (leaner).

Serious dyno test with the right Minimum Advance for Best Torque and moisture have not already been done (or at least released) to public domain.

Best Regards,
Athal

[Aaron]

plasma ignition

@Mire,

It is obvious from many posts in this thread that different people go in different directions and have their own ideas about what they want plasma for. I make no specific claims because I CANNOT control what you do with it or how you do it. I cannot control your level of skill in putting this together, I cannot control your foot on the gas pedal when it is installed, etc... I provide the info on how to do it and the rest is up to you.

It has been tested in multiple applications from lawn mowers to generators to jet engines to cars. I know what it does but my results are irrelevant and you can want a dyno test but that doesn't mean anything to you in reality because there is no guarantee you're going to do the same level of quality installation, etc...

@Athal,

One of my partners was behind hat dyno test - that is one of many. And you have to understand the results are without any significant modifications. The fuel ratio is unchanged, no sensor mods, no water/hho injection, etc... so having ANY increase whatsoever proves that conventional ignition science and it's limitations are bogus. Obviously, with an increase, more energy is released from the same amount of fuel and that alone is "supposed" to be impossible.

@All, I have plenty of pictures and testimonials from customers who bought Ignition Secrets - I may post just a couple to show the installation but I have no desire to post any results, etc... because like I said, I have no control over how people will apply this information and with so many variables to consider in so many different engine types and ignition types, etc... posting claims are ridiculous.

The only thing I'm going to say the plasma will do is to allow more power from a leaner burn, get more out of water or hho supplementation, reduce emissions, increase power and increase mileage. How much of an increase or decrease in those? Obviously there is going to be a wide range of results for everyone so posting anything specific means absolutely nothing.

You can look at Greg's build in this forum using another variation of the plasma - another way to produce it but is the same exact plasma, and in an old VW bug with a 1300cc engine, he got 43% increase in gas mileage, which happened to also be 43mpg! He leaned out his gas jets and added a little steam to the intake.

[Athal]

@Athal,

One of my partners was behind hat dyno test - that is one of many. And you have to understand the results are without any significant modifications. The fuel ratio is unchanged, no sensor mods, no water/hho injection, etc... so having ANY increase whatsoever proves that conventional ignition science and it's limitations are bogus. Obviously, with an increase, more energy is released from the same amount of fuel and that alone is "supposed" to be impossible.

@All, "I have no control over how people will apply this information and with so many variables to consider in so many different engine types and ignition types, etc... posting claims are ridiculous."

Dear Aaron,

Yes of course, as you know I've made some tests and I'm sure about the potential of this plasma tecnology. I'm not questioning plasma ignition potential. I know also that in this stage most of the plasma exper¡ences are being done with prototipes. But this is is also interesting: if guys with different car setups and aproaches to plasma ignition have similar resoults, may be we can stablish general guidelines in order to make easy more people using this technology and save fuel and emissions in a near optimal way.

As my car has full control capability (megasquirt) on moisture (lambda) and advance timing, I will start tests, with a multispark CDI prototype with allows mods in an easy way:

http://www.molla.org/DIY-CDI/SC-DIY-...icle-hires.pdf

But still no easy access to dyno tests.

Regards,
Athal

[Athal]

@Mire,

I make no specific claims because I CANNOT control what you do with it or how you do it. I cannot control your level of skill in putting this together, I cannot control your foot on the gas pedal when it is installed, etc... I provide the info on how to do it and the rest is up to you.

It has been tested in multiple applications from lawn mowers to generators to jet engines to cars. I know what it does but my results are irrelevant and you can want a dyno test but that doesn't mean anything to you in reality because there is no guarantee you're going to do the same level of quality installation, etc...

@All, I have plenty of pictures and testimonials from customers who bought Ignition Secrets - I may post just a couple to show the installation but I have no desire to post any results, etc... because like I said, I have no control over how people will apply this information and with so many variables to consider in so many different engine types and ignition types, etc... posting claims are ridiculous.

The only thing I'm going to say the plasma will do is to allow more power from a leaner burn, get more out of water or hho supplementation, reduce emissions, increase power and increase mileage. How much of an increase or decrease in those? Obviously there is going to be a wide range of results for everyone so posting anything specific means absolutely nothing.

Dear Aaron,

if you are uncertain about others work and setups, and you prefer not to post other's results, I'll think you're very serious and a prudent person.

But also there's no reason to not posting YOUR results:

If you are capable to write a book with a resume about years of dicussions posted in this forum (wich I have bought and finded very interesting), this also means that you are plenty of confidence about YOUR plasma tecnology knowing, YOUR setups and YOUR prototypes. Writing this compilation performs you as an opnion leader and a relevant reference for most of the people in this forum.

May be I'm also not interested in others testimonials, but I found very relevant, knowing about YOUR results Aaron.

Again please Aaron, release YOUR dyno tests and conclusions as soon as possible: we need just basic data as camshaft duration, compression, 2 or 4 valves, moisture (air-fuel ratio and other adds like water mist or vapour) and advance used, and charts comparing to the stock setup. I think your e-book won't be complete until some dyno tests in several setups and car examples will be released by you.

Regards,
Athal

[Aaron]

plasma ignition

Athal,

The book/video package was never offered by making claims (hence the fact that claims are absent on the page) - the package is to show people how to make the plasma ignition - that's it. People get in trouble making claims that they can't guarantee for other people. Look at all those bozo products out there claiming this and that for gas mileage, etc... and most people can't even come close to getting those results. I prefer to underpromise and overdeliver.

Go look at gmeast's setup in this forum - he shows everything he did. It is a different circuit arrangement, but the plasma is identical. He does really good work and got 43% increase in MPG which was also 43mpg in an old bug.

This is a test on a lawnmower Peter and I did a while back - obviously the capacitor is bigger than what is in a CDI or MSD but we were able to turn the gas jet ALL THE WAY IN so that the only fuel that can come in is from the idle jet - Water Sparkplug Test on Lawnmower - YouTube with that being turned all the way in, we could still get FULL power. Literally, it is running on fumes at full power. We also adjusted the timing.

My jet has the same setup shown in my package with the streetfire module: How to Build a Jet Engine - YouTube Normally in a jet engine you turn on the ignitor long enough to get the flame tube up to temp, then you can shut it off because the fuel will burn as soon as it touches the hot flame tube. However, there are other mods that I'm not going into but I leave the plasma ignition running non-stop even after the flame tube is up to temp because I get more benefit. In the beginning, this jet required propane at about 8 psi for a certain fuel nozzle to even idle. With the plasma on and a few other mods, the needle is sitting at 0 psi in order to keep it idling. The gauge is too big to see it accurately at that level. I need a 1psi range gauge to see what fraction of 1 psi it is operating at. Obviously it isn't 0 psi but somewhere between 0.1 psi and 1.0 psi. I also need a more precise metering valve at that same level in order to fine tune. In any case, if it is 0.9 psi for example, I have been able to reduce the fuel consumption almost 90% - this is no small feat. This already blows away every result any diy jet engine builder has ever shown anywhere!

For automobiles, I rely on Arvind's testing since he has dyno resources, etc... it works on any engine, any compression ratio, etc... the only thing that may need modifying is timing, fuel ratio and possible sensor or ecu chip mods. But even on some testing, timing didn't even need changing. Perhaps timing can be delayed to get more benefit but isn't required.

But I still believe MY results don't mean anything to anyone. There are plenty of free reports you can find online by the govt showing how it improves cold starts on E85 gas, reduces emissions, etc... all the reports on how it extends the lean burn limit - obviously meaning it really gets more btu's out of less fuel, etc...

[gunebakan]

hi Aaron.Im from Turkey.Im a electronics engineering student.Im wondering about electronics components.I cant find some components in my country.will i need expensive or cannot finding components when triying your method?
I really want order your book.

[jtanguay]

I am not going to go reading other patents on the subject.

Then why not just pay Aaron for his research efforts to see what he's offering? If you can't even do your own research, then why are you here asking for testing and numbers? That's not what Aaron is selling. He's just selling his own research into plasma ignition.

I only asked what your claim was, in your words.

I'm pretty sure his claim was plasma ignition.

I am guessing it is untested as of yet? Posting numbers of gains, or fuel mileages has not been tested? I guess it is still in the works?.

Do some quick googling and searching of youtube. The info is out there. Heck go search for aqua pulser. They sell a whole kit and have dyno numbers if you want! Woah so difficult!

you simply have not made any claims, no real world testing?

Who are you anyways? Did you not see his video's demonstrating his tests? Did he claim to install it into his car yet? Maybe he's busy. On the other hand, you can easily find people who have installed plasma ignition and seen some decent gains from it.

I was interested in what could be claimed, and expected from using it.

Aaron was very specific with what you can expect with plasma ignition. I don't see how there could be any confusion. He said that you could run leaner air fuel ratio's which mean better fuel economy and less emissions. And I got all that just by reading! Isn't that fantastic?!

To all the younger fellas building cars, MSD ignitions systems are designed to have the ability to adjust timings at WOT, and part throttle. Rev limiters and such that will allow for smooth power across the board, and prevent pre ignition, or detonation by advancing or retarding timing. The gain is in the range of 1 to 3 HP if you are lucky, but you also have options, and they are programmable.

MSD is good to about 3k rpm and then it stops working. It helps provide good low end torque where the timing isn't as advanced because the fuel takes a while to burn with such a pathetic spark. The plasma ignition system will (in theory) ignite the mixture rapidly and therefore timing must be altered to realize the full potential and gains. This is why you see gains, but not spectacular ones, unless they are messing with timing. Even cam timing should be modified...

For the novice Money should be spent on getting more fuel, and air into the system. Even A MSD system isn't going to make (much)of a difference at all.

Yes, we should all just do what everyone's been doing for the past 100 years. We're all stuck with the options of a big v8 gas guzzler if we want extra power. Or wait, how about no. How about we challenge the system? I'm pretty sure it's just the indoctrinated people like you who cry and whine.

I just wanted to see the numbers, because i have seen just about every devise on the market. All of them make real world claims.. None ever live up to them.

The split fire spark plug actually worked, it was years ago when I installed them into my car. slightly smoother idle, slightly better mpg. they cost about 3 bucks each.

So there you go. Spark plugs do make a difference.

Today i simply use copper plugs, and its just as good because i also have the MSD system, and a higher compression ratio, larger fuel injectors, fuel pump air flow meter. ETC..
I don't want to see any suckers pay hundreds of dollars for something, and get burned.

I hope you are able to work it out in the future what may be expected, and have testing in writing, and certified. good luck on your testing, and keep up the good work.. .

Testing in writing and certified for what purpose? Do your own leg work for you? Provide you a nice neat packaged product that you go to a store and buy that will give you at least 10% more efficiency? Are you a consumer *****? Do you realize how much time and money this would cost?

As far as I'm concerned you are not sincere and you should go back to whatever it is that you do and forget plasma ignition. As for the hundreds of dollars; if you can't afford it, then why not build your own? I bought two high output ignition coils (the 50kv ones from procomp) and they are very powerful. Even without the diode on CDI it gives a bright spark. I'm really busy with other things at the moment, but I intend on sharing my results with this forum. My goal is to actually remove the throttle plate and use actual fuel to meter engine speed just like a diesel. If this can be accomplished, then I fart on your grave.

[Aaron]

plasma ignition parts

hi Aaron.Im from Turkey.Im a electronics engineering student.Im wondering about electronics components.I cant find some components in my country.will i need expensive or cannot finding components when triying your method?
I really want order your book.

The diodes are inexpensive and can be ordered from a lot of different countries.

CDI's or MSD's can also be ordered from many distributors.

All the details are in Ignition Secrets.

[Amin]

Dear Aaron,

1). What is the minimum, maximum and optimum value of LV (may be obsolute value or in relative to HV)?

2). For DIS due to the nature of current flow, is it right to have just one string of diodes per each coil pack (of two plugs)?

3). For DIS, what should be the strength of spark/plasma distribution between these two plugs (of the same coil pack)?

4). Regarding the way oxygen sensor reads lean/rich air/fuel ratio explained in your book under Bonus/EFIE topic, I think you should elaborate more whether it is based on wideband or narrow band type because the reading seems to be opposite in my opinion.

Regards.

[Aaron]

capacitor

Amin,

Please email me the cap questions.

You have to simply get an EFIE for your particular car. There are many manufacturers these days for both narrow and wide and they can help you out. I'm only pointing out that the EFIE can help you get more of the benefit that can be sabotaged by the o2 sensor.