Muller generator replication by Romerouk

[mariuscivic]

ALL

Try to put a magnet behind the driving coil. In my setup it boosts the rpm at the same input power
(about the gold;I would like to have a coil with gold wire to see if there is any difference)

[qvision]

As i said here :

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post155378

Looking at the impedance formulas fat, high inductance coils should be best.

[ron48]

Hi guys great going as usual hope to see a design for a free energy generator soon.

Some comments from romero about the speed up under load/shorting below
hope this helps you rod and elias and co???

The RPM has not only one critical window where the speed up takes place, in my experimenting I found more windows for that, all depending of the coil and other components. The magnet behind the coil will change the inductance and that can help too.
As for now I cannot see anyone having speed under load with a magnet behind the coil...

Regards,
Romero

Hi,
toranarod has a good progress and for now he is second in my list who has started to understand more of these effects.

One small tip for all who are working on speed under load, if you understand what I mean that can help a lot:
every coil has an inductance but when the rotor with the magnet is in front of the coil the inductance is changed. Think of a system to keep the coil natural inductance when the rotor magnet is in front of the coil.

Best regards and success all,
Romero

ron

[Shadesz]

I am going to install that coil in the Muller setup next. have been planing this for some time just need to work out the core type. what would you suggest?

I know the question wasn't directed to me, but I have been wanting to try this design for some time. I haven't had time to build anything yet and figured I would let you guys run with the idea if you want.

I am as sure that this will increase the results just as sure as I was when I suggested that you try a MuMetal core. It may need some tweaking, but I bet it will work.

IF SOMETHING DOESN'T MAKE SENSE PLEASE ASK



The idea is that as current starts to flow in the pickup coil, it creates a magnetic field that interacts with the rotor magnets in a positive way. Going along with Elias' theory of the need to minimize resistance and maximize inductance this is one idea I have come up with.

Basically you use large copper pickup wire along the length of the coil. This is hooked in series to a pancake coil or two that is made out of Litz wire. The Litz wire will help increase induction while minimizing resistance. It all can be Litz wire I suppose. Anyways, the pancake coils are in series with the pickup wire, and are connected in series (parallel to each other though) AFTER the pickup wire.

An even better idea than the pancake coils would be to build this particular version of the Rodin Starship coil. Check this out. (This would really maximize induction while minimizing resistance.)

Anyways, the design should work if coil inductance is participating the way I think it is. Like I said we may have to dial in the exact layout, but you should get the idea.

Oh, one other thing to note. IMHO the direction you should wind your coil is directly related to the pole you have facing the coil from the rotor magnet. The direction of winding will determine which coil induced pole faces the rotor magnet at certain times. If your coil isn't working like you want, try flipping the rotor magnets over. (Elias, that one was for you). Notice that in a Muller design, you will need to wind the coils on one side of the rotor opposite from coils on the other side. If I have it right, clockwise wound coils should face south poles and counterclockwise would coils face north poles.

This is already a lot to put in one post so I will cut it off there. Please ask any questions you may have.

[Slider2732]

I like that idea
The direction of wind is indeed very important, well, from own tests. In my present series configuration, the rotor would slow when connected one way, speed up when connected the other. 3x speed ups and you get the *cough* Formula 1 motor in my last vid
As i'm already using the same sort of coils that Romero used, I see great benefit to at least trying out your pancake method...i'd be very tempted to put them on the back though, same as the recent doubled coil, with thicker wire behind the main drive coil ?

To update on my own progress with the mini-rotor type setup, here's where i'm at.
I've added 4x relay coils to the setup, with 1N4148 based FWBR's on each.
Input is 3.6V from a house phone Ni-Cd pack, output is 5.65V DC
Milliamps are only 14mA though, rising to 30mA with 4700uF capacitor..though i'm unsure on the milliamp reliability. I need to be at 63mA to break even.

Of most note then perhaps - the 90 degree mounted pickup coil.
By placing a relay coil directly on top of a powering coil, I can return about 1.6V DC, enough to light an LED. There is no interaction with the spinning rotor and this doesn't slow it down. Maybe a bit of a tip for some extra juice out of systems.

Here's the vid I just uploaded, before tearing down to try out amp bumping ideas:
More DC volts out than in + pickup tip - YouTube

[toranarod]

Hi guys great going as usual hope to see a design for a free energy generator soon.

Some comments from romero about the speed up under load/shorting below
hope this helps you rod and elias and co???

The RPM has not only one critical window where the speed up takes place, in my experimenting I found more windows for that, all depending of the coil and other components. The magnet behind the coil will change the inductance and that can help too.
As for now I cannot see anyone having speed under load with a magnet behind the coil...

Regards,
Romero

Hi,
toranarod has a good progress and for now he is second in my list who has started to understand more of these effects.

One small tip for all who are working on speed under load, if you understand what I mean that can help a lot:
every coil has an inductance but when the rotor with the magnet is in front of the coil the inductance is changed. Think of a system to keep the coil natural inductance when the rotor magnet is in front of the coil.

Best regards and success all,
Romero

ron

any thing Ferrous will change a coils inductance. I was a TV technician back in the days when people got there TV repaired. we would always find little magnets on coils for tuning.

I noticed along time ago any change in the magnetic filed near a coil would change its inductance.

Is this a clue how Romero tuned his coils. If it is it makes good sense and it s the first I have heard of it.

Thank you

[toranarod]

I know the question wasn't directed to me, but I have been wanting to try this design for some time. I haven't had time to build anything yet and figured I would let you guys run with the idea if you want.

I am as sure that this will increase the results just as sure as I was when I suggested that you try a MuMetal core. It may need some tweaking, but I bet it will work.

IF SOMETHING DOESN'T MAKE SENSE PLEASE ASK



The idea is that as current starts to flow in the pickup coil, it creates a magnetic field that interacts with the rotor magnets in a positive way. Going along with Elias' theory of the need to minimize resistance and maximize inductance this is one idea I have come up with.

Basically you use large copper pickup wire along the length of the coil. This is hooked in series to a pancake coil or two that is made out of Litz wire. The Litz wire will help increase induction while minimizing resistance. It all can be Litz wire I suppose. Anyways, the pancake coils are in series with the pickup wire, and are connected in series (parallel to each other though) AFTER the pickup wire.

An even better idea than the pancake coils would be to build this particular version of the Rodin Starship coil. Check this out. (This would really maximize induction while minimizing resistance.)

Anyways, the design should work if coil inductance is participating the way I think it is. Like I said we may have to dial in the exact layout, but you should get the idea.

Oh, one other thing to note. IMHO the direction you should wind your coil is directly related to the pole you have facing the coil from the rotor magnet. The direction of winding will determine which coil induced pole faces the rotor magnet at certain times. If your coil isn't working like you want, try flipping the rotor magnets over. (Elias, that one was for you). Notice that in a Muller design, you will need to wind the coils on one side of the rotor opposite from coils on the other side. If I have it right, clockwise wound coils should face south poles and counterclockwise would coils face north poles.

This is already a lot to put in one post so I will cut it off there. Please ask any questions you may have.

Great work and great diagram I know this takes time to draw up and post.
So thank you.

I have taken on board all your designs. When my Iron powder arrives I will have a go at making this type Of coil. Starting to look like the Bill Muller coil.

can you suggest more about the number of turns type of wire gauge.
Making coils is expensive the closer we can get to the right design the better
.

[Shadesz]

Great work and great diagram I know this takes time to draw up and post.
So thank you.

I have taken on board all your designs. When my Iron powder arrives I will have a go at making this type Of coil. Starting to look like the Bill Muller coil.

can you suggest more about the number of turns type of wire gauge.
Making coils is expensive the closer we can get to the right design the better
.

You are welcome. Thanks for considering the idea. It will take me a week or two till I can get you some decent numbers. I will have to do some learning and digging.

Question with that, how do you plan to make your iron powder cores? What dimensions? What weight of Iron powder? What weight of resin? Oh, also, what size and strength of rotor magnets are you using on your Muller? (These numbers may help us calculate the ideal coil design for minimal resistance, maximum inductance, and the most power output)

I have to run to class now but will be back on later. Oh, while I am here, thank you for the program. I would love the diagram for the circuit as well. E-mail away.

This forum has a good team guys keep it up.



Oh, while I am at it....

These two links might be of value when you start talking about casting cores...
http://www.energeticforum.com/131820-post9.html
The Energy Experimenting People. - Mixture for the best core for your coil. - Powered by ForumCo.com - The Forum Company

[toranarod]

Hello Shadesz Thanks for the links about making sores.
Yes you are right, there is a very dedicated group working for a common goal.

I have a PCB for that program I sent you. I assume you are competent with reflow soldering Tech.

The MU metal so far supplies the best results and switching the generator coils as Bill Muller did for the best way around Lenz drag. By switching the gen coil at exactly the right time it is possible to charge a bank of caps to 200 or more volts form one generator coil in a quick time. If there where 18 generator coils there would be plenty of current available at a high voltage for very little if at all Lenz drag. There is the anti cogging of the 8 magnets and 9 coils to be considered in the final build.

I have been testing coils and cores all day. All that needs to be done now is to find the exact choice of coil to go with the core. I have most of the other data. I could build a reasonable generator now with MU metal cores. If I could work with the MU metal and get my hands on a good supply that I could afford.
So I am going with the magnetite core cast in epoxy and see how it goes.

In the mean time I will keep working on the speed under load. This is a very interesting area and the more we learn the better.

[RAMSET]

A core issue??

Gents
I don't know if you noticed this post at OU.com [post #52 Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect ]
From Gutoluc
RE:Nanocrystaline cores

Quote,

Hello Overunityguide, everyone,

I have had my eye on your topic for a few days now and I find you're doing an excellent job.

It coincides that I have lately been thinking of applying what I personally learned while working with Thane Heins at the Ottawa University a few years back. I'm now considering of re-testing with new core material and biasing magnets.

I'm mostly thinking of applying this. A little over a year ago a researcher posted a
YouTube video: ToroidInductance.wmv - YouTube
and also shared his findings at this
Forum: Proximity of permanent magnet increases toroids inductance?

What he found was that a coil wound on a Finemet toroid (nanocrystaline) core would increase in Inductance as much as 3 time when approached to a magnet (up to a certain point)

I do have 2 of theses Finemet toroids and will soon be confirming his findings.

The idea here (if this information is correct) would be to use Finemet as core material on Thane's delayed Lenz coil technique. This would give a huge advantage as we could achieve higher than expected Inductance using minimal wire lengths since High Inductance is the Key factor to Thane's coil effect. The benefit to use less wire is cost but more important is that Thane later found reducing coil resistance boosted the coil current output.

I will soon post my findings.

Great work there toranarod! I have also been following your research and progress for some time.

Thanks for sharing
---------------------
appologies if this is Old news!
or inappropriate for this application!

Chet

[mariuscivic]

Hi guys!
I made another video; maybe someone has a better explanation for this
strange behavior of the coil - YouTube

[Lidmotor]

The Lenz barrier

Hi guys!
I made another video; maybe someone has a better explanation for this
strange behavior of the coil - YouTube

This reminds me of breaking the sound barrier in an airplane. Maybe we should call this the "Lenz barrier". Excellent video.

Lidmotor

[obelix]

Hi all,

For Toranarod :
You can test another "metal" for your core : amorphous metal !
In your country you can have a look at "Preformed Line Products " who have transformer with cores in amorphous metal ....
Preformed Line Products (Australia) - News - PLP Launches Amorphous Metal Distribution Transformers in Australia
Perhaps a distributor or a local dealer can send you an old core .......

Obelix

[thaelin]

Hi guys!
I made another video; maybe someone has a better explanation for this
strange behavior of the coil - YouTube

Hi mariuscivic:
I am going to throw my idea out on the table here. I have seen and been watching this go on for some time now. If you have a scope to see it with, then you will notice the frequency that the passing magnets generate in the coil. At the low setting you are not within reach of the natural resonance of the coil. As you speed it up and a higher magnet pass per second hence a higher frequency you approach this. The speed up is definately linked to the natural frequency of the coil in use. Just remember the magnet is changing the inductance of the coil as it passes so must be taken into account.
I am in the process of having 1/2' plastic laser cut for my next build and I am going to have a very good test bed to run now. My old wood system was ok but lacked the precision this one will have. Not to mention 8 magnets and 10 coils each side.

Play with the amount of load for the coil size and I think you will see great promise. Off to bed now for work.. take care and keep on.

thay

[toranarod]

Hi all,

For Toranarod :
You can test another "metal" for your core : amorphous metal !
In your country you can have a look at "Preformed Line Products " who have transformer with cores in amorphous metal ....
Preformed Line Products (Australia) - News - PLP Launches Amorphous Metal Distribution Transformers in Australia
Perhaps a distributor or a local dealer can send you an old core .......

Obelix

Thank you this is very helpful.