Muller generator replication by Romerouk

[elias]

@Farmhand

Really thanks for posting that book! I like reading old books, they seem more honest to me. And a confirmation that Tesla was on these stuff makes us even more faithful.

Elias

[elias]

Farmhand Well done!

This is what Tesla says:

CHAPTER XV.

MOTORS WITH CIRCUITS OF DIFFERENT RESISTANCE.

As lias been pointed out elsewhere, the lag; or retardation of
the phases of an alternating current is directly proportional to
the self-induction and inversely proportional to the resistance of
the circuit through which the current flows. Hence, in order
to secure the proper differences of phase between the two motor-
circuits, it is desirable to make the self-induction in one much
higher and the resistance much lower than the self-induction and
resistance, respectively, in the other. At the same time the
magnetic quantities of the two poles or sets of poles which the
two circuits produce should be approximately equal. These
requirements have led Mr. Tesla to the invention of a motor
having the following general characteristics : The coils which
are included in that energizing circuit which is to have the
higher self-induction are made of coarse wire, or a conductor of
relatively low resistance, and with the greatest possible length
or number of turns. In the other set of coils a comparatively
few turns of liner wire are used, or a wire of higher resistance.
Furthermore, in order to approximate the magnetic quantities of
the poles excited by these coils, Mr. Tesla employs in the self-
induction circuit cores much longer than those in the other or
resistance circuit.

Sounds Familiar?

[Farmhand]

Farmhand Well done!

This is what Tesla says:

Quote:
CHAPTER XV.

MOTORS WITH CIRCUITS OF DIFFERENT RESISTANCE.

As lias been pointed out elsewhere, the lag; or retardation of
the phases of an alternating current is directly proportional to
the self-induction and inversely proportional to the resistance of
the circuit through which the current flows. Hence, in order
to secure the proper differences of phase between the two motor-
circuits, it is desirable to make the self-induction in one much
higher and the resistance much lower than the self-induction and
resistance, respectively, in the other. At the same time the
magnetic quantities of the two poles or sets of poles which the
two circuits produce should be approximately equal. These
requirements have led Mr. Tesla to the invention of a motor
having the following general characteristics : The coils which
are included in that energizing circuit which is to have the
higher self-induction are made of coarse wire, or a conductor of
relatively low resistance, and with the greatest possible length
or number of turns. In the other set of coils a comparatively
few turns of finer wire are used, or a wire of higher resistance.
Furthermore, in order to approximate the magnetic quantities of
the poles excited by these coils, Mr. Tesla employs in the self-
induction circuit cores much longer than those in the other or
resistance circuit.

Sounds Familiar?

Hey No Probs, We are all on the same team, anything that helps anyone should help everyone.

One difference I see there in the passage you quoted is, that the higher
inductance has the thicker wire with lower resistance, more wire and turns.
and the lower inductance coils have less but thinner wire with higher resistance,
less turns.

Interesting. EDIT: Seems this way the higher inductance coil can still make
good output or carry more current. Because of the thicker wire. Though this is
for a motor. Maybe still usefull.

I'm glad you can understand the old timer speak, I find it difficult to understand and need to look up the meaning of a lot of words.

[Shadesz]

you should check out this vid...looks interesting


syncopetra's Channel - YouTube

Part 2 The evolution process to the source of Murray's ultra efficiency - YouTube

that is interesting.. a bit over my head at the current moment. Have you built anything like it?

[qvision]

@ MonsieurM
@ Farmhand

Brilliant links, thankyou both

[quantumuppercut]

Great book Farmhand! Thanks for the link!

@all,

It appears too much to explain my phase shifting theory today. On that same note, it appears like we may actually be talking about two different phase shifts.

Traditionally the phase shift relates to voltage and current in an inductor. Right now I am working on a power point to post that will explain my theory on that.

But more importantly there appears (at least I hope) to be a different phase shift. This isn't so much a phase shift as a sinewave time delay from the primary coil to the secondary coil. IE, if the current is measured on each the primary and secondary and is compared, there should be a delay time on the secondary.

Can anyone PLEASE confirm suggestion this? It has great application if we can figure out how to delay the current wave by say 90 or 180 degrees.

Ps, I will post the powerpoint (would you like it as a pdf instead?) when I finish it up.

I've always think this Lenz delay in term of force and mass. Force is voltage, velocity is current. When the mass is stationary and you apply a force, the greatest force is experience by the mass initially and as the mass go up in speed, the force drop. Now assume a force F is acting for time t, to stop the mass, you will require an opposite force F acting for a time t. The product Fxt is such that equal to to the original Fxt to cancel out momentum, hence fly back EMF on inductor discharge. We just trying to do it fast enough to beat friction (resistance).

[qvision]

According to my results it's nothing to do with the speed that the magnet passes the coil, myself and others have the effect at low RPM's where there is no way the magnet is going fast enough.

I think it's all to do with the coil, in which case a transformer would be an easier device than a pulse-motor to take advantage of the effect.

Results :

AUL EFFECT 0.5 VOLTAGE RANGE TEST.xls

DSC01433.JPG

[Rubberband]

Not Exactly

Interesting idea. I'm not sure I grasp your idea completely so if I don't please continue to elaborate. Mechanics are hard to convey in text and 2d image format.

Essentially are you suggesting spinning the magnets in one direction and the coils in the opposite direction? That's a great idea!! It is more mechanical in nature, and will be difficult for testing stages, but once this generator is fully understood you could design a generator requiring half the RPM by spinning the magnets and coils in opposite directions! It would need brushes, etc, but with a good design I think it would help us achieve lenz tricking with half the RPM (danger). Nice!

Another thing this would do is allow you to mechanically time the firing and load time of each coil. You could do this by designing your mechanical brush switches carefully. I think there is potential with this idea in the future!

As far as phase shifting, the phase shift we are looking for is only within the generator coil itself. Essentially we are trying to control the time from when the magnet creates a changing field around the coil to the time that the coil receives the magnetic field and generates an electrical current to the time that the new electrical current creates a counter magnetic field in reverse of the one the magnet is creating. Changing coil location wont help this, but it can help us reduce the magnet bypass time!

Sorry for not getting back sooner, no, the coil plate is fixed, though I like your idea of having less RPM, It would be complicated to build that way, I just didn't draw the mount. The bearing in the middle of the coil plate is just to support the magnet rotor shaft because of the rotors design. Holding that roror stable at RPM would be hard to do with just one bearing. I"ll try to explain my thoughts better, The coils on the coil plate are turned 180 to each other for their pick up location. the outer ring of magnet's coils used in repulsion mode, the inner ring in attraction. Wouldn't this serve to offset lenz?, especially since the outer magnets are on the longer arm with torque?

[Rubberband]

Bismuth?

you should check out this vid...looks interesting


syncopetra's Channel - YouTube

Part 2 The evolution process to the source of Murray's ultra efficiency - YouTube

Since Bismuth is diamagnet, would it make a good shield material?

[Shadesz]

According to my results it's nothing to do with the speed that the magnet passes the coil, myself and others have the effect at low RPM's where there is no way the magnet is going fast enough.

I think it's all to do with the coil, in which case a transformer would be an easier device than a pulse-motor to take advantage of the effect.

Results :

AUL EFFECT 0.5 VOLTAGE RANGE TEST.xls

DSC01433.JPG

I don't know if I would write it off that quickly. Your math doesn't consider the hysteresis loop of the core material. As I have been stating, I feel this will also effect delay time. Especially if you are using same pole faces and magnets that are not strong enough to saturate the core.

[Shadesz]

Since Bismuth is diamagnet, would it make a good shield material?

Actually the pull force relies on a shield that uses a high permeability (it doesn't really shield it so much as shorts it). Thus any diamagnet would be counterproductive. Does that make sense?

[Shadesz]

Sorry for not getting back sooner, no, the coil plate is fixed, though I like your idea of having less RPM, It would be complicated to build that way, I just didn't draw the mount. The bearing in the middle of the coil plate is just to support the magnet rotor shaft because of the rotors design. Holding that roror stable at RPM would be hard to do with just one bearing. I"ll try to explain my thoughts better, The coils on the coil plate are turned 180 to each other for their pick up location. the outer ring of magnet's coils used in repulsion mode, the inner ring in attraction. Wouldn't this serve to offset lenz?, especially since the outer magnets are on the longer arm with torque?

I'm not sure

[Shadesz]

I don't know if I would write it off that quickly. Your math doesn't consider the hysteresis loop of the core material. As I have been stating, I feel this will also effect delay time. Especially if you are using same pole faces and magnets that are not strong enough to saturate the core.

Ok, here is an example. Talking about transformers with steel cores we learn...

A steel core's magnetic hysteresis means that it retains a static magnetic field when power is removed. When power is then reapplied, the residual field will cause a high inrush current until the effect of the remanent magnetism is reduced, usually after a few cycles of the applied alternating current.

There is a little more to it than that (which is why I started the hysteresis loop thread; I will get to the idea as I have time). But basically it is like the above quote states. If your core has a fat loop (the steel core above), it will retain some flux (at the expense of power) when your magnet leaves the core. However, just like a fat loop core on an electrically induced transformer will cause an in-rush of current, a fat loop core on your magnetically induced transformer will cause an in rush of the next magnet (while ignoring lenz at the same time). This is one reason I think most speedup effects are observed while using steel bolt cores.

I don't want to crowd this thread but figured I would at least give you guys the basic idea.

If you want something to relate this to, think of it as the same exact thing as using a biasing magnet. Functionally, they are the same thing. I however feel that using the proper core is more desirable than using biasing magnets, and probably cheaper.

[Shadesz]

Phase angle difference - YouTube

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ - Does this video get you thinking about how we can control the phase shift under variable loads?


Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't this proof that we can control, to some extent, the timing of current flow in the pickup coil thus the timing of lenz? That would be great information if my understanding is correct!

[qvision]

@ Shadesz, yes i agree, we can control the phase relationship, it's just getting power out of it after that stage that is difficult.

Don't we have anyone here that really knows their stuff, like an electrical engineer ?

Again i link this video, noone has commented on it yet so i am assuming noone has watched it but it's all about reactive power :

RE-partI.mpg - YouTube