Muller generator replication by Romerouk

[Shadesz]

read this and think on it..... (see Dave's Proposals )



Constructal theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

how do you suggest we apply that? Also, I am not sure I understand Dave's proposals yet.

[Shadesz]

Hi Guys,

Qvision, Shadesz, thanks for the nice feedback.

Shadesz, yes i said i tried it on severall coils, bi-filar and uni-filar, but also tri-filar.

For the uni-filar i had to "couple in" the HF by coupling the coil with another coil,
but it gave similar effects (capacitive on lower frequency and inductive on higher frequencies, which is logical).

So what hoptoads is saying about the Adams motor upper part of page 11 here:
http://www.totallyamped.net/adams/#top that: "capacitive reactance (Xc) is usually negligable" is not quite thru, at least not in my coils.

happy building, regards Itsu

Sorry, but what do you mean by the bold text above?

Also, relating to an inducting phase shifter in series with your pickup coil, I learned something yesterday...

You can't use it like a transformer, it has to be a strictly a single wire inductor in series. SO much for using it to transfer the load. Bu that's ok.

See the sim circuit I made to show what I mean.

Also, you will not get the correct current lag effect if your pickup coil output is not a smooth sine wave. It would be like trying to swing on a swing wile having to stop between each cycle. Your inductor will have time to catch up between every cycle, hence no real delay. In other words, if your magnets are too far apart, you wont be able to see any phase shift.

Just theory still

[Dave45]

how do you suggest we apply that? Also, I am not sure I understand Dave's proposals yet.

Shadez my proposals use bucking coils as in the Muller setup and the Don Smith device maybe thats what is throwing you off.
Take care
Dave

[Shadesz]

This my brand new 24 pole rotor 110 mm in diameter with four 5x10x2mm Neos stacked at one pole. The poles are facing outwards.
I used billboard type of sheets (2x3mm) to make it. It is pretty strong an easy to cut.
A small outrunner motor is driving it pretty well. Arduino uC is just for controlling the ECS. I get 1300 Hz at generator coil which is around 6500 RPM.
I don't want to test higher speeds at this stage. It is pretty stable although I 'carved' the holes with just a knife using a printed template.
There are several layers of tape around the edge to make it stronger. There are going to be 20 generator coils around. I can't wait to make
a complete setup for the tests to begin...

I like it alot! Very good design for testing stages! Let us know how it holds up.

[MonsieurM]

this was posted on http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...nerator-2.html

what interests me in this post is the highlighted part:

You are recycling the pulse by sending the kickback to the source and topping it up with a generator coil. The magnets are there to increase inductance by saturating the cores, that's all. The only reason you have to reach such high speed is because of internal resistance. Build bigger coils of lower resistance and it will work better.
.

because it reminded me of the set up i mentioned earlier




Felix Ehrenhaft: Magnetic Current --- 9 articles

it is the saturating part that caught my attention

[gyula]

Folks,

I do not get it. Whenever you approach or attach a permanent magnet to a coil's ferromagnetic core, then the coil's inductance changes to a LOWER value, it does not increase. Core saturation means the original permeability reduces to a lower value (the operating point on the B/H curve is shifted towards the flattening sides where B cannot get higher any more howerer much amperturns you pump in. At over-excitation, a core can fully lose its permeability and the coil would behave as an air core coil.

So how is it meant?

Thanks, Gyula

[MonsieurM]

this is just to have it as a reference:

from Felix Ehrenhaft: Magnetic Current --- 9 articles

Magnetic Current ~

Ehrenhaft discovered that a magnetic current is surrounded by circular electric lines of force and that the magnetic charge of the magnet could be set free by making it release oxygen gas from acidulated water.

Interestingly, as John W. Campbell, Jr. pointed out in his article on Ehrenhaft in the May 1944 issue of Astounding Science Fiction, electrically charged particles do not rotate detectably around the gap between the poles of a permanent magnet. He noted the reason for this was: "[T]he permanent magnet represents stored magnetic energy --- static magnetic field energy, pretty solidly tied down", similar to an electret, the magnet’s counterpart (The electret has stored electric-field energy that it cannot release as current). "The permanent magnet does not, therefore, have a magnetic current associated with it. The observed lack of rotation, then, conforms with theory". (Ref. 1)

Measuring Magnetic Current ~

Assuming the existence of magnetic current, Ehrenhaft wanted to measure it, and he did it the same way Ampere first quantified the nature of electric current. Ampere stated that a single magnetic pole would whirl around a wire carrying an electric current, the intensity of which was measured by the work done by carrying a unit magnetic pole once around the entire electric current.

In an experiment described in Physical Review 1944 (Ref. 12), Ehrenhaft learned that permanent magnets lose a portion of their pole strength during the magnetolysis process:

"Dr Ehrenhaft has set up an alnico magnet, and drained the pole strength by approximately 10% in 60 hours in one case, and with another magnet the same pole-strength reduction was accomplished in 24 hours". (Ref. 1)

This is the counterpart of the loss in pole-strength of Volta’s pile during electrolysis, indicating the average intensity of the magnetic current flowing between the pole faces in what Ehrenhaft termed "absolute magneto-static units" or msu. In the magnetic version of Ampere’s statement, he observed:

"The intensity of the magnetic current measured electrically is equal to the work done in carrying a unit electric charge once about the electromagnetic current". (Ref. 5)

For example, the numerical value of the magnetic charge on a single particle of nickel in gas could be smaller than 5 x 1-10 msu.

found this while browsing Tesla's patent

[Shadesz]

Alright guys! I finally finished it! Well, there is a ton more I wanted to add, and it needs a lot of revision, but I am sick of it and wanted to get it posted. Feel free to read it and discuss what I present. Thanks in advance.



David

[garrypm]

Folks,

I do not get it. Whenever you approach or attach a permanent magnet to a coil's ferromagnetic core, then the coil's inductance changes to a LOWER value, it does not increase. Core saturation means the original permeability reduces to a lower value (the operating point on the B/H curve is shifted towards the flattening sides where B cannot get higher any more howerer much amperturns you pump in. At over-excitation, a core can fully lose its permeability and the coil would behave as an air core coil.

So how is it meant?

Thanks, Gyula

At over-excitation, a core can fully lose its permeability and the coil would behave as an air core coil.


Garry

[elias]

At over-excitation, a core can fully lose its permeability and the coil would behave as an air core coil.


Garry

Yes magnets reduce the inductance of a coil, in fact a generator coil does not have a constant L, and it is changing all the time.

[elias]

Alright guys! I finally finished it! Well, there is a ton more I wanted to add, and it needs a lot of revision, but I am sick of it and wanted to get it posted. Feel free to read it and discuss what I present. Thanks in advance.



David

That is good David!
Phase shift of about 90 degree means completely no drag, but it seems that in the adams type rotor, Rod is getting acceleration, so the current is becoming assistive. If we utilize a system that makes use of the perpendicular force of the delayed current in the coil (eg a piston), then that current will work for us instead of against us or being neutral, that is what I think the Adams type rotor is all about. Think of mounting a magnet on a spring and making it oscillate really fast on top of a coil, don't you think that if the frequency of oscillation is enough it will become self running? I do think so.

BTW: if we take into consideration the phase lag caused by the core itself then we can go beyond 90 degrees of phase shift, although I think that 90 degrees of phase shift more than enough to lead to COP>1.

[MonsieurM]

@all , it would be nice if you could watch the following vid

particularly @ 1 min 40 s, keep in mind Muller set up..that angle is crucial

Nature by Numbers - YouTube



besides you'll learn in 4 min the golden mean and what it means in Nature

[Shadesz]

That is good David!
Phase shift of about 90 degree means completely no drag, but it seems that in the adams type rotor, Rod is getting acceleration, so the current is becoming assistive. If we utilize a system that makes use of the perpendicular force of the delayed current in the coil (eg a piston), then that current will work for us instead of against us or being neutral, that is what I think the Adams type rotor is all about. Think of mounting a magnet on a spring and making it oscillate really fast on top of a coil, don't you think that if the frequency of oscillation is enough it will become self running? I do think so.

BTW: if we take into consideration the phase lag caused by the core itself then we can go beyond 90 degrees of phase shift, although I think that 90 degrees of phase shift more than enough to lead to COP>1.

Thanks.

The kicker is, rod is seeing that acceleration without an inductor phase shift. Inductor phase shifts only happen in coils powered by electricity. Coils that pickup a magnetic field, pickup voltage and current at the same rate/time. Hence no inductor phase shifting.

[quantumuppercut]

Thanks.

The kicker is, rod is seeing that acceleration without an inductor phase shift. Inductor phase shifts only happen in coils powered by electricity. Coils that pickup a magnetic field pickup voltage and current at the same rate/time. Hence no inductor phase shifting.

Very sharp. Maybe it's...invisible. Spooky. lol

[Shadesz]

I've upped a video of acceleration-under-load rather than just short-circuit.

The rotor speed rises by only a few Hz, and the milliamps only go down by a few but the effect is there and will be amplified with higher impedance coils.

Acceleration under load - replicating the Heins Effect ... - YouTube

Nice! now we just need to figure out how to get it to use less power than no coil.