Muller generator replication by Romerouk

[elias]

photo of the assembly and rotor height adjustment, i used rigid 12mm plastic studs but have s/steel studs made if these need outchanging later.
Have everything bar the litz wire which ill make, raided computer psus for the ferrites and have constructed the hall switching per roms circuit.
You guys are doing some great work here too, really good to see

http://img860.imageshack.us/img860/9...eightadj01.jpg
http://img848.imageshack.us/img848/6...ssembled01.jpg
http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/8...ssembled02.jpg

Be careful with your plexiglass rotor, it might break, mine exploded and I was so lucky. It might be better to change your rotor material at a later time, after you have made your initial tests.

[hadcat]

Probably the best thing to use is a Fiber Phenolic Resin product such as Micarta.

High Performance Thermoset Composite Materials

Machines like hard wood and is laminated cloth like canvas or paper. Depends on the application. I have machined oodles of this stuff. The military uses it for Ballistics and is used in electronics as a nonconductor. Pretty much like the material used in a circuit board.

The material is made using very high pressure..sure at some point everyone has seen this material somewhere. Knife handles if no where else.

[totoalas]

CP Muller gen rotor using ring magnets

Another rotor in progress using microwave oven Berillium oxide magnets
trying to levitate on the second pic
cheers

totoalas



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YouTube - ‪Muller gen rotor 220511.avi‬‏

[toranarod]

is Romerouk device going to be the one?

hello to all

Been running my replication today for the first time.
I have already seen some of the most promising figurers I have seen on any Pulse motor.

I have been running in attraction mode and getting 900 to 1500 rpm
while drawing 5.3 mill amps. This is more complex than than Romero could explain in a post on a forum.

I would like to offer some help by saying Look very closely at the timing
the timing is so important and its very sensitive. 1 mill second ether way is going to mean the difference between success or failure.

I have been only experimenting today with the drive coils.

[Joit]

Totoalas

In case you wanna go for magnetite core. Just dont forget to place Magnets left and right side on the Resin, when it is hardening.
Like it is mentioned here
Since Resin has not much effect at Coil, i think it does not really matter, which one you use, its just, to keep the Powder together. Ferrit Cores are usually pressed, and dont even know, if they use any Glue there.

Konehead over at OU.com mentioned, that B muller said, he did use Cores with the same Size as the Magnets are.
So probatly, this will be an advantage, even, when i guess, i would make one with about 3/4 or half from the Magnets.
A Core can increase the Power from a Coil, but i do not trust only in the Core. The Magnet on the Coil do imho a better Job.

Further, at Mullers Motor, the Coils and Magents are all very close, that means for me, that his distance or arrangments,
except the uneven one are maybe not to critical.

[totoalas]

In case you wanna go for magnetite core. Just dont forget to place Magnets left and right side on the Resin, when it is hardening.
Like it is mentioned here
Since Resin has not much effect at Coil, i think it does not really matter, which one you use, its just, to keep the Powder together. Ferrit Cores are usually pressed, and dont even know, if they use any Glue there.

Konehead over at OU.com mentioned, that B muller said, he did use Cores with the same Size as the Magnets are.
So probatly, this will be an advantage, even, when i guess, i would make one with about 3/4 or half from the Magnets.
A Core can increase the Power from a Coil, but i do not trust only in the Core. The Magnet on the Coil do imho a better Job.

Further, at Mullers Motor, the Coils and Magents are all very close, that means for me, that his distance or arrangments,
except the uneven one are maybe not to critical.[/QUOTE]
Hi Jolt
thanks mate
Magnetite core is a go for me as Slider stated that it is one of the key components to achieve our objective
Will pour the mixture on the coil and press with magnets as you mentioned
Hope somebody can whisper the litttle secret of the Muller coil core lol
An analysis or lab test will be better to identiify the chemical or ores
Another idea is to use a solid aluminum in place of the cores
Hope some replicators can test this

cheers

totoalas



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[Joit]

Aluminium or Copper or any other Material what slow down Magnetism very much is not good for cores.
Any other thing may would be better, what is high magnetic.
The last Ironoxide i did order is from Xinxiang, so you are may now the Source anyway.
At the other side, i dont thing, that the Cores alone do the Magic.
Its may importend too, to make good Coils. I will stay with this with at not to wind each layer left right, but go back straight, that the windings only go mostly to one direction.
Also it s may a good idea for me, to make the typical Muller coils with more windings at the Bottom and lesser at Top.
Not sure, if flat Coils will give much more advantage. But for the deep of the Coils, i think Konehead has a Point too, when he do mention the Paper clip test with a Magnet.

[quantumuppercut]

hello to all

Been running my replication today for the first time.
I have already seen some of the most promising figurers I have seen on any Pulse motor.

I have been running in attraction mode and getting 900 to 1500 rpm
while drawing 5.3 mill amps. This is more complex than than Romero could explain in a post on a forum.

I would like to offer some help by saying Look very closely at the timing
the timing is so important and its very sensitive. 1 mill second ether way is going to mean the difference between success or failure.

I have been only experimenting today with the drive coils.

Hello toranarod,

Very interesting result. Is there anyway you can provide the coil inductance and resistance? I'm very interested in this ratio (L/R). I believe to achieve OU, the factor L/R must be greater than 1 with standard unit ( if you boost inductance with core, hysteresis losses also increase I think).

QU

PS: you driving it with a FET which has a body diode, right? Thanks again.

[totoalas]

to make good Coils. I will stay with this with at not to wind each layer left right, but go back straight, that the windings only go mostly to one direction.
Also it s may a good idea for me, to make the typical Muller coils with more windings at the Bottom and lesser at Top.
Not sure, if flat Coils will give much more advantage. But for the deep of the Coils, i think Konehead has a Point too, when he do mention the Paper clip test with a Magnet.

Hi Jolt
you read my mind????
I want to do the coils one time shot
Bottom coil extend wih Teslas Bifilar to boost output

Gud night and dream on
Quote from Zerofuel

Did anyone notice that the Gen II version of the Muller motor alternates rotor magnet polarity? I've got a feeling that by doing this there will be a speed or frequency at which the generator coils become self resonant, ESPECIALLY if they are bifilar wound. Should that occur, power outputs should fly off the map!

Just an observation.

Z



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[synchro]

Mopozco replication.

Apparently Mopozco has a Muller type self runner replication at this time.

Check his latest video out:


YouTube - ‪Mopozco's Channel‬‏

[synchro]

Hot wired Litz.

Bruce TPU has his Muller Litz hot wired, and he got me pink ticketed at the OU site. Just for information to help avoid electrical fires!



6. Think about Ohms law! Use it to your advantage! 30 volts .010, add a strand for amperage, to 30 volts .020 and you have just DOUBLED your wattage. Treat the strands like little batteries."

Double your strand, double your wattage and double the drag on your magnet rotor!

Bruce TPU's false inference is that you can double your power for free. This just amounts to "FLUMMOXING".

"Ohm's law states that the current through A CONDUCTOR between two points is directly proportional to the potential difference across the two points, and inversely proportional to the resistance between them."

A CONDUCTOR means A SINGLE CONDUCTOR! Not a relationship between two or more wires. You can't "use Ohms law to this advantage'". This is where Bruce TPU has violated Ohms law. I want him to admit he's wrong and I want my status returned to normalcy.

Does anyone think there'd be any advantage to wrapping Muller dynamo output coils with wires of different gauges, then coupling the outputs of different strengths so that 2 times 2 equaled 22? Imagine two output coils: One with thin wire of many turns for high voltage and another with thicker wire of fewer turns for more amperage. Both the same watts. How can it be possible to use Ohm's law to multiply the high voltage from one coil times the high amperage of the other to calculate actual output? This is delusory! The output can't equal more than the combined watts of the two coils!

This misguided approach would merely add to overall system entropy, not a gain in power! Ohm's law applies to current and voltage in a single wire ONLY, not together from seperate wires. That kind of mistake is extremely childish, and should not be pampered!

Splitting, seperating and coupleing Litz wires to diodes for the same reason only adds increased loss to resistance along with the increased system entropy. This simply amounts to backwards engineering!

How would one begin to FACTOR OUT system loss from first view?

[lespaul109]

Well laws don't mean too much around here, I have violated lenz's law in my living room

[lespaul109]

If there is no advantage to litz wire, why do companies produce it at a premium

[synchro]

Litz.

Here's a table of recomended Litz wire operating frequencies by thickness:


60 HZ - 1 KHZ 28 AWG

1 KHZ - 10 KHZ 30 AWG

10 KHZ - 20 KHZ 33 AWG

20 KHZ - 50 KHZ 36 AWG

50 KHZ - 100 KHZ 38 AWG

100 KHZ - 200 KHZ 40 AWG

200 KHZ - 350 KHZ 42 AWG

350 KHZ - 850 KHZ 44 AWG

850 KHZ - 1.4 MHZ 46 AWG

Here we see confirmation of my point that there is no reduced resistance per unit length for a given diameter:

"In reality, the real advantage of Litz wire is NOT reduced resistance per unit length for a given diameter. The advantage is less slope in resistance with frequency and reduced eddy current when the conductor is in a multi-layer coil or transformer. The individual strands are like laminations in a transformer core, and below a certain frequency they greatly reduce eddy currents by decreasing the "short circuit" path distance for magnetic flux induced currents that are not in the normal current flow direction."

There's no advantage at all to operating 32 Awg Litz wire below the 10 KHz range over solid wire of the same thickness and length.

[toranarod]

Hello toranarod,

Very interesting result. Is there anyway you can provide the coil inductance and resistance? I'm very interested in this ratio (L/R). I believe to achieve OU, the factor L/R must be greater than 1 with standard unit ( if you boost inductance with core, hysteresis losses also increase I think).

QU

PS: you driving it with a FET which has a body diode, right? Thanks again.

Thank you for your questions
I don,t have an inductance meter I can only calculate Inductance.
I will run the math today.