Muller generator replication by Romerouk

[toranarod]

time to put out results

Hello all
I have many measurements watts current
I will share them with you. I need some time to put them into a comprehensive format.

But over all the OU is not working at the moment. I have run the motor on 1 coil and 2 coils. On 50 volts, 12 volts 24 volts.
collected back emf. tried PWM timing tried diffident coils may types of magnets on top under neath.
have seen some amazing results watched it do things I did not expect. But no OU. I will make a video very soon.

the other point is there are still many test to do and configurations to try. its not over by any means. I work on.

I would like to hear from others with there results. Not theory black and white
recoded information.

Rod

[Prio]

Muller generator replication by Romerouk

Just an idea

Why not use the Imhotep Oscillator Fan as driving units for the Muller generator. Some people already could run them as self runners. That mean no power losses on the drive of the generator. The Imhotep Radiant Oscillator can be considered too as driving unit.

[toranarod]

During recent tests I was pondering the possibility of using two paired sets of drive coils all wired in series configuration to be driven from the one pick up sensor.
As seen in the picture below, drive coils pair 1 is magnetically aligned to attract the magnets on the rotor disk. Drive coils pair 2 is magnetically aligned to repel the magnets on the rotor disk. This meant drive coils 1 and 2 would be wired in series to double overall inductance and coil resistance, consequently halving their power consumption. In turn this would give us the opportunity to create a repelling and attracting force simultaneously to the rotor disk.
The only technical issue with this configuration was working out the phase of the two coil pairs, so that when they engaged they did not electrically oppose each other in circuit.
This is where it got interesting…I experimented with the coils in phase with each other and out of phase with each other. When the two drive coil pairs generated a charge induced by the magnets and the polarity of the charge was in opposition to itself, drive current dropped to 25 m Amps. Motor RPM was 1250. When I reversed the phase of the two coils motor RPM increased to 2200, drive current escalated to 180 m Amps.
I found this to be a very interesting result and something that needs a lot more work. I am posting this result in the hope that others may replicate this experiment and refine the technique.

[ashtweth]

Hello all
I have many measurements watts current
I will share them with you. I need some time to put them into a comprehensive format.

But over all the OU is not working at the moment. I have run the motor on 1 coil and 2 coils. On 50 volts, 12 volts 24 volts.
collected back emf. tried PWM timing tried diffident coils may types of magnets on top under neath.
have seen some amazing results watched it do things I did not expect. But no OU. I will make a video very soon.

the other point is there are still many test to do and configurations to try. its not over by any means. I work on.

I would like to hear from others with there results. Not theory black and white
recoded information.

Rod

Rod the reason why you WILL get it one day is because you have that attitude and drive, thats as much of a respect for us to watch as your hard work like Clanzers. We are going to do the same as you on the 8X SEC and JT variants ASAP .. busy on the cancer cures course (as much of a rabbit hole as FREE energy) . Rod all respect its not over yet lets keep learning. Thank you for this my friend never seen you work so fast Rod.

Ash

[ren]

Hi guys,

Something to report I found interesting.

Im driving the rotor at 1900 rpm with the coils unloaded. If I place any of the coils in series with any other coil besides their opposite I do get an increase in voltage and current but when loaded I loose about 300-400 rpm. With each coil in series with its opposite, like Romero had essentially, all to bridges I get an increase in power with each one and a very minimal decrease in rpm. In one case I only lost 20rpm. I had 4 coilsets with bridges charging another battery and I was still at 1750 rpm.

The unit is 7 pole all north rotor, 6 coils each side, all air core.

So it was interesting to see that all coils to their respective bridges loaded down the rotor less. I get increases in no load voltages each time I parallel another bridge. I think with 3 bridges it was around 35v. I still need to get a current meter, as the other one is monitoring the input of the SG.

Regards

[gyula]

Hi Ren,

It is interesting you left out the ferrite cores from the coils. Of course any experience counts and is many times useful, thanks for sharing.

On your missing current meter: until you obtain a real one and you have got an extra voltmeter of any kind, you could still use a series resistor of 1 Ohm, or 5 Ohm etc and connect the voltmeter across it to see the voltage drop, from the voltage changes you can see whether the output "current" draw increases or decreases. For the tests it is not so important what is the actual value of a current, only watching its changing up or down can be a big help too.

Still that you do not have ferromagnetic cores, you may wish to place a permanent magnet near the outer end of the generator coils and see how the drag or the output changes.

In your tests when you found the RPM decreased say 300-400, did the input current draw increased accordingly? (indicating normal Lenz drag) The same question to the lost 20 RPM case too. Romero wrote he needed 1 month to get there...

Thanks, Gyula

[ren]

Hi Gyula,

Good to hear from you again.

My device is a little unorthodox, it should perhaps have a separate thread started. But I thought my last post relevant to the muller build being done here so I shared.

The muller is in full gen mode, meaning it has no drive coils. To rotate the shaft I am using a 3 coil multiple transistor SG. So my input is variable up to 150v and I have kept the SG output separate for now. So any decrease in rotor speed due to drag from the generator costs me no more on the input to the SG.

I did some tests with a removeable core on one coil. I do note an increase in output with a magnet on the core but with air cores I haven't seen any improvement. I will be looking at cores again soon now that I have all coils in place. I was reading a link on magnetic amplifiers and I saw that saturating a core with a magnet lowers inductance and allows more ac current to pass. I believe this is the reason for the effect.

I have tried some various loads there 12v 3 watt led, and 12v batteries. I will do some tests with resistors. Pretty happy with the results so far, the coils are wound on homemade wooden bobbins there is much space wasted not only on the ends but in center. If the center wasn't so large (40mm diameter, 20mm hollow center) I could fit more turns and most likely increase the capabilities. As it is when the magnet is tdc it actually doesn't have any windings directly opposite. But I can't complain, these coils were left overs and were the only reason I was able to get something up and running quickly.

I will do a video soon, almost ready

Regards

[woopy]

Hi all

hope this can helps

good luck at all


YouTube - ‪romero-muller 4.wmv‬‏


Laurent

[ashtweth]

Hi guys,

Something to report I found interesting.

Im driving the rotor at 1900 rpm with the coils unloaded. If I place any of the coils in series with any other coil besides their opposite I do get an increase in voltage and current but when loaded I loose about 300-400 rpm. With each coil in series with its opposite, like Romero had essentially, all to bridges I get an increase in power with each one and a very minimal decrease in rpm. In one case I only lost 20rpm. I had 4 coilsets with bridges charging another battery and I was still at 1750 rpm.

The unit is 7 pole all north rotor, 6 coils each side, all air core.

So it was interesting to see that all coils to their respective bridges loaded down the rotor less. I get increases in no load voltages each time I parallel another bridge. I think with 3 bridges it was around 35v. I still need to get a current meter, as the other one is monitoring the input of the SG.

Regards

Thx Bro

[toranarod]

under load

Hello Ash, Ren and Gyula,
When I find the time I must visit the Panacea website and read up what you are doing in the cancer research area – sounds amazing. But you know me, Ash…I’ve got to stay focused.
Ren, just reading through your post on your series coils. Because of the odd/even number of magnets/coils phasing them in series is tricky business and that is one wiring configuration I have not tried. I thought I would leave that alone for now. In my post above I mentioned phasing of the drive coils in series. It worked well but I have gone back to the standard Romero configuration. After all, the idea was to replicate Romero’s work, so trying to stay on track.
There’s been some discussion on the forums about Romero’s work prior to him building the Muller generator, about his research with shorting out the coils and violating Lenz Law. The one constant draw back with our current OU research is loading of the generator coils, creating Lenz drag, as you all have experienced. Romero and other researchers have demonstrated they can violate Lenz Law and overcome drag. The hypothesis put forward by others contributing to the Romero post is that precise timing of a load condition can turn Lenz Law around and have it work to our advantage.
If you have seen some of my earlier postings about my Robert Adams Motor work you will recall that I am in favour of using the multi-triggering pulse each time the magnets are engaged with the coils at TDC. The oscilloscope wave form diagram represented below shows two trigger pulses per event cycle.
Since I started using this technique I have noticed very clearly that while switch 1 pictured below was in the closed position allowing D1 to conduct back to the supply the motor would always run faster and slightly more efficiently. I have been analyzing and testing this phenomenon for some time now and have discovered some basic electrical principles. It is interesting to point out that the wave form generated by the drive coils is the same as the wave form induced by the generator coils. In other words there are no electrical differences between the generator coils and the drive coils, except for the 500 micro second switching pulse induced into the coil.
I wish to draw your attention to the wave form diagram below and the arrow labeled P1 in red, where we see the drive being switched off and the induced voltage being conducted back through D1 to the battery. In the diagram this is a 51 micro second pulse with an electrical charge of 350 volts. This 350 volts is obviously in a reverse polarity creating a load situation to the supply. I hypothesize 2 things are occurring at this precise moment :-
1. We are collecting 350 volt charge from the coil and recharging our battery supply; and
2. This load creates a magnetic field within our coil for those 51 micro seconds that works in our favour giving the motor the increased speed.
We then see the whole process repeated again at P2 in our wave form. It is important to have very precise control at this point so as not to allow the P2 wave form, being the last pulse generated, to go past TDC because if we allow that collapsing magnetic field to be induced on the other side of the zero volt line of the AC wave form P2 then acts as a break to the motor.
I now draw your attention to P4. We can see the top of the wave form of P4 being clipped as the diode conducts. This clipping of the conducting through the diode is standard Lenz Law drag at this point. And even though the motor generator experiences drag generated by this load the energy gained by P1 and P2 are still easily able to overcome it. This is where is gets very complicated. By adjusting the inductance of the drive coils, generator coils, etc we can control the output voltage of our coils in relation to the total potential of our supply. I have test data recording these effects which I will publish in a more comprehensive document at a later date.
Back to Romero’s coil shorting under load – I hypothesize that the same can be achieved in the other 8 generator coils. In the last 24 hours I have been frantically constructing all the necessary electronics to conduct these tests.
As Romero is no longer available to support these projects I guess we have to hypothesize and read between the lines on what may have been the functional parameters of this motor generator. And who knows…we may end up creating a whole new machine or a very accurate replica. We may never know but the goal still remains the same - OU

Ash your support has been what keeps us going.

Rod

[minoly]

Ive been thinking the same thing also Minoly. Exactly that. It kind of reminds me about one of JB's patents. This is kind of what I was saying at the beginning of the thread. Very similar to ED's work. which in turn is similar to JB's work. Not that anyone is copying anything. But if its the type of system that works then they would be similar in many ways.
Ive been thinking of casting a few magnetite C type cores the way you drew em. I really think, thin acrylic tube that can be bent with a heat gun should suffice for the core form. wind coils. put over acrylic tube. bend to desired shape. stuff with as much magnetite/resin as possible.

Read your recent post today @ OU about possible coil shorting on top of the Kromrey stuff, excellent questions.
I did a small limited test last night with my son's amplified coil short.
after the rectifier I put a cap and shorted it:
YouTube - ‪Muller Bolt coil short speeds up‬‏
I think this is the key to the big lock on this door, only a couple more to go...

Patrick

[tutanka]

some ways but you need splitting the positive

You can use some ways for obtain BEMF or cold energy but in all case you need splitting the positive and add gravity mass for obtain an OU device. That is clear example of electronic scheme I think that help you a lot.

Circuit Simulator Applet

[Lidmotor]

Woopy's Discovery----a big clue on how Romero did it???

@Woopy
I downloaded your new Romero circuit diagram this morning and studied it. You may be onto something. Paralleled generator and drive circuits may indeed be part of this mystery. You should post the diagram here also. I was able to somewhat replicate the "event" that Romeo showed in that first video where the amp draw did not go up when the light bulb load was applied. I just have a small "testing" unit to work with but the idea should work on others full scale units. Well done Laurent.
Here is the video of my test:

YouTube - ‪RomeroUK Muller----Woopy discovery!!.ASF‬‏

Cheers,
Lidmotor

[penno64]

@Lidmotor,

Have a look at my post over at OU.

Regards, Penno

[Lidmotor]

Caps

@Lidmotor,

Have a look at my post over at OU.

Regards, Penno

The use of capacitors (and what kind and size) may be very important for this thing to work right. In my testing setup I have a large cap on the drive and a small one at the Joule Thief load. Romero may have been very right about "over thinking" what is going on here and getting stuck. There may have been a great deal of trial and error in his build. No matter WHAT one thinks about the validity of it -----there had to have been hundreds of hours of work put in to get where he was when the MIB showed up.

Lidmotor