Muller generator replication by Romerouk

[woopy]

Hi Lidmotor

always a fun of your great videos

And i thank you very much to point out and test what is in my "out of the box " thinking.

I tested today some different power and some different config of the driving coil

And it seams to me that the better would be to have a separated motor to drive the rotor. So we can exactly see what is going on in the generative coils coupled to an input power.

So we can study the BOXING CURRENT ( or perhaps this bloody matching impedance ) that a lot of people are speaking of but surely have not very practical knowledge of what it is , and that included me of course.

Fantastic thread here and lets go on

Thanks

Laurent

[gyula]

Hi Laurent,

You mentioned using Romero's exact driver circuit that involves a Hall device and a PNP transistor. I made a post at ou.com where I suggested using a series resistor in the base of the transistor to reduce the base current a little which will reduce the collector current, hence the driving coils current, this way a possible input power reducement can be had with a probably negligible RPM reducement.
Muller Dynamo

Keep up the very good out of box thinking,

Gyula

[totoalas]

External driver Circuit

Hi Lid and Woopy
Great results you have there
Just finished my neogen coil set up with hd magnets on the rotor
Now for the connection generator options?????
Parallel dc as Woopy did
Star for high speed rpm or Delta for low rpm and coonect to a single bridge rect from an alternator

Driver Options will try
Replace core with
1, NILS ferrite rod Slayer circuit
2. Lid Simple Muller driver with additional coil fitted to the inside of gen coil
3.Wrap a pancake coil on the Neogen coils using Slayer circuit and another ferrite rod wit coil inside the Neogen coil as L1

Other options
two separate series windings top and bottom coils connected to 12 v or 20 vac ac transformer to 220 v ac output
Looper circuit
1. Slider or Jonnys pick coil on top of neogen coils

Lots of tests
Hope you can try this also

My hd rotor have 8 single S N on surface of neodyne gued to magnetic shield and the bottom of the rotor is the same 8 hd magnets N S parallel to te top
Winding direction
Top left hand rule bottom right hnd rule
Biasing magnets
Wll put ferrite disc 3 25 mm by 1 mm magnet on the neogen coils 30 deg inclination on the clockwise rotation
N facing bottom and S facing top

Have a nice weekend

totoalas

[polkin]

wiring diagramm

hello all
my English is not so good so i try not speak a lot but to give some points with diagrams.
Unfortunately i don't have an actual dynamo because it needs an amount of money to make it, but i think that i will make it soon.

very nice work from all and thank for searing

@Lidmotor and woopy
i love your work indeed but i have questions

is this the woopy diagram?
http://www.energeticforum.com/attach...1&d=1307276897

can you please tell me were we have to place the cap and the dc-dc supply?

also
this is the original diagram:
http://www.energeticforum.com/attach...1&d=1307277223

we can see 2 caps. is there an error? or we have to think far out of the box and maybe with no logic at all and make that???? :

http://www.energeticforum.com/attach...1&d=1307277635

thank for your time and everything!!!

good luck at all!!!

Regards Pascal

[elias]

@Rod

Can you test the drag on your coils on different speeds, when shorting the coils?
Also you can perform half bridge tests with diodes, and see on which half the drag is less. On the positive half or the negative half, that is the attracting half or the repulsing half. Is the drag more when the magnet approaches the coil or when it leaves the coil?

Good luck!
Elias

[toranarod]

@Rod

Can you test the drag on your coils on different speeds, when shorting the coils?
Also you can perform half bridge tests with diodes, and see on which half the drag is less. On the positive half or the negative half, that is the attracting half or the repulsing half. Is the drag more when the magnet approaches the coil or when it leaves the coil?

Good luck!
Elias

Hello elias

I have almost finished building the electronics.
the motor creates a lot of RF noise so earthing and shielding the system from false triggering was more of a problem than i have seen before.

I am going to answer all your questions very soon . I hope I see a move forward with this next round of tests

cheers

[blackchisel97]

Post from Romerouk on OU

There is a post from Romerouk on OU forum.


V

[gravityblock]

Romerouk

There is a post from Romerouk on OU forum.


V

Thanks blackchisel

Here's the link to Romerouk's. post on OU forum. I copied and pasted his post below for an easy reference here.

Hi all,

I am here not to give you any info or directions regarding the Muller device, that is not going to be anymore but I am seeing a lot of people spending a lot of time and money thinking that just looking at my device is enough to make a 100% replication.
I hate to see people spending money on something they don't understand completely.

Most of the time is not what you see, is not in front of your eyes it is a bit more than that.

My advice to all of you is to stop working on the Muller device and just play with a simple rotor and 2 coils, one driving and one for collecting. When you will make that to speed under load or shorted then you can apply that to different even more simpler setups.

I know that most of you will say that the speed up will bring the rotor to the original speed where we don’t have the collector coil in place and there is no gain. Try and measure the speed before adding the collector coil then do the same when you shorted the coil. I think that is easy enough.

If you cannot get this effect then you will not be able to get to the next step and better stop before wasting any more time and money. My Muller device had a little bit from all of my discoveries during many years of building and testing and most of the time I failed in getting my goal but every time I have learned a bit more.

This arrangement is a complicated one and requires thousands of adjustments but it can be built in simpler ways.

Lately I have tried different toy size arrangements and I will build a total different type hopping that I am not going to upset anyone now.

I’ve got all the parts I have ordered before, thinking to get a bigger size Muller device and I will use them towards a different concept, nothing related to Muller idea.

Now again, I hope people will think many times before starting any project then decide what to do and please do not take my devices or ideas like an invitation to replicate, that is your decision, don’t blame me if you fail, we are all the same but still, not all can play football but we like to try and maybe we will learn.

Best Regards to all,
Romero

[nueview]

geshbeddin on you tube

Hi Lidmotor

always a fun of your great videos

And i thank you very much to point out and test what is in my "out of the box " thinking.

I tested today some different power and some different config of the driving coil

And it seams to me that the better would be to have a separated motor to drive the rotor. So we can exactly see what is going on in the generative coils coupled to an input power.

So we can study the BOXING CURRENT ( or perhaps this bloody matching impedance ) that a lot of people are speaking of but surely have not very practical knowledge of what it is , and that included me of course.

Fantastic thread here and lets go on

Thanks

Laurent

i want to thank you for your suggestion to lidmotor and him for making the you tube it got me thinking about something i saw when working with induction motors and so i had to try it on the new motor project as there was something bothering me about it when a current is sent through the field coil it pulls the approprate magnet to the pole face but when a capacitor was added in paralell with the coil and a dc was applied to the coil it would resonate on the top of the steady DC and several magnetic poles would pass until the resonance rang down then it needed to have a reverse shot of current to run again the sound is different for the two different directions as well.

you can see the video at my you tube channel ( geshbeddin ) it is motor test 3 RDTPPM


YouTube - ‪geshbeddin's Channel‬‏

i should make a better video to post showing it both ways.
thanks to all of you here is a gift for all of you,
Martin

[toranarod]

It works

hello every one

It works.
Now we start work ?

I was right about my early observations. At last we are moving in the right direction.

I was able to draw 32 m amps from one coil with out any load on the motor.

There was no change in RPM or drive coil load.

just a small point the RPM needs to be right. full speed is not always the correct speed.

It was worth all that time building all that electronics.

I will post some important wave form diagrams. and give a brief explanation of how i see it .

[elias]

hello every one

It works.
Now we start work ?

I was right about my early observations. At last we are moving in the right direction.

I was able to draw 32 m amps from one coil with out any load on the motor.

There was no change in RPM or drive coil load.

Congratulations! Were you using resistive loads, or just shorting the coils?

[gyula]

Hi Rod,

thanks for the good news and congratulations!

In the meantime a member at ou com posted his 3D simulation findings and it sounds in accord with RomeroUK hints on the need for precise fine tuning, a narrow optimal RPM window for the rotor and also limits on the amount of the useful loads.
Here is his post if you have not read it:
Muller Dynamo

Thanks, Gyula

[toranarod]

timing

The wave form diagram below represents the timing required for this exercise.
The green wave form represents the AC voltage being generated by one generator coil pair before the bridge rectifier. This is what the AC wave form looks like before we short or load the coils.
The yellow wave form represents the timing of the trigger pulse of exactly where the MOSFET transistor will be switched to engage a dead short across the green wave form, being the generator coil.





Now the wave form as the coils are shorted.

[toranarod]

Hi Rod,

thanks for the good news and congratulations!

In the meantime a member at ou com posted his 3D simulation findings and it sounds in accord with RomeroUK hints on the need for precise fine tuning, a narrow optimal RPM window for the rotor and also limits on the amount of the useful loads.
Here is his post if you have not read it:
Muller Dynamo

Thanks, Gyula

Thats going to take a lot of understanding and maybe some people will never
find it.

if this is what RomeroUK discovered it may never be rediscovered with out an accident.

it does explain the DC to DC converter. I have never really been happy about why it was there but this explains it.

how do you know what direction to go in. How do you read the signs.

[woopy]

Hi Rod

very nice trace, impressive spikes. Do you use the circuit of your post 400 here above or a dedicated one ?

Do you get acceleration under load with those shorted coil

Thank's

@Penno

nice work

could you please some more elaborate on your wrapping coil.
If i understanf well you take a standard MO fan motor coil with the central core, and than you wrap some turns of copper wire around this originel coil,

Than i do not understand what you do exactly.

Do you short with a reed the originel coil and pickup an eventual generated voltage through the second wrapped coil, or is it the contrary or something else.
Thank's to take the time to precisely discribe your setup it is important.
And remember we are not in your head and we can not see your thoughts.

Manythank

@nueview

Thanks for your comment and video

Can you also elaborate by perhaps making a new video and showing better what you exactly do with your motor very interesting indeed

Thank's

And at all thanks for the great work

good luck at all

Laurent