Muller generator replication by Romerouk

[Lidmotor]

Hand held walk around Muller Dynamo -----toy

@All
I don't know about you other folks but this project is getting a little too long sooo--- Today I just put what I have done so far into a hand held walk around unit. It will be a rememberance of the weeks spent in this study and a good conversation piece. I'm not going any further unless there is a major breakthrough from someone. If there is then I will be back on this in a flash.

Here is my hand held toy:

YouTube - ‪Hand held walk around Muller Dynamo---toy.ASF‬‏

Cheers,


Lidmotor

[hadcat]

@All
I don't know about you other folks but this project is getting a little too long sooo--- Today I just put what I have done so far into a hand held walk around unit. It will be a rememberance of the weeks spent in this study and a good conversation piece. I'm not going any further unless there is a major breakthrough from someone. If there is then I will be back on this in a flash.

Here is my hand held toy:

YouTube - ‪Hand held walk around Muller Dynamo---toy.ASF‬‏

Cheers,


Lidmotor

Bare foot and all...Nice job!

There has been a major change discovered that was not disclosed. The coils are bifiler using multi strand..not what everyone thought or assumed.

Have to wait and see if this is a game changer which it should be.

[blackchisel97]

@All
I don't know about you other folks but this project is getting a little too long sooo--- Today I just put what I have done so far into a hand held walk around unit. It will be a rememberance of the weeks spent in this study and a good conversation piece. I'm not going any further unless there is a major breakthrough from someone. If there is then I will be back on this in a flash.

Here is my hand held toy:

YouTube - ‪Hand held walk around Muller Dynamo---toy.ASF‬‏




Lidmotor

And even bare feet
Looks good. I'm still trying to grasp this concept and will not stop until I'll understand how to adjust everything in order to replicate what Romero did.
I have changed things around so many times that I feel like running in circles and repeating what I already tried. Almost melted two coils and rotor wobbles a bit but I don't want to spend $ until I understand what needs to be done. I was able to get 12V5W bulb glowing and charge motorcycle battery from 12.55 to 12.64 in an hour from 2 sewing bobbin gen coils at 1700rpm but this isn't running right yet. I need to go through everything again and try more ideas.


V


V

[blackchisel97]

Bare foot and all...Nice job!

There has been a major change discovered that was not disclosed. The coils are bifiler using multi strand..not what everyone thought or assumed.

Have to wait and see if this is a game changer which it should be.

Actually, I thought of that but don't remember Romero saying anything about so I stopped thinking on my own and followed on info being available. Where did you find this out? Are they connected "Tesla way"?

How in the world did he manage to wind 300T 7 strands of #36 bifilar on sewing bobbin??


Vtech

[hadcat]

Actually, I thought of that but don't remember Romero saying anything about so I stopped thinking on my own and followed on info being available. Where did you find this out? Are they connected "Tesla way"?

How in the world did he manage to wind 300T 7 strands of #36 bifilar on sewing bobbin??


Vtech

On the OU forum here:

Muller Dynamo

The bifilar is done using the litz and matching ends of each strand or wind your own multi strand.

Nothing has been shown as a result yet...Rumero left out this detail and has confirmed in a PM to one of the members. Still waiting this out for more details.

[Steve220]

Roebel conductors

I talked about this before, but I think R UK early on had a picture of the wire he was using in his coils. They looked like Roebel Conductors to me.

Roebel conductors are used in AC power generators because of their ability to reduce the current loss in AC generator (alternator) windings.

It it not Litz wire.

Roebel Conductors is a fancy way to say single strands of insulated wire ran in a nontwisted bundle.
If you were to lay out say, seven long strands of insulated 30 Ga magnet wire and group them together as one without twisting them, you would have Roebel conductors.
Each single wire is its own circuit within the coil.

I am not sure why, but in AC generators (alternators) they work very well.
The bundle is used in AC generator coils.

If I remember right, R UK said about the wire he used in his coils, he got the wires that looked like Roebel conductors from deflection coils used in old CRTs.
I did not know that they used this type of wire in CRT deflection coils, but I guess they do.

This may be a factor in the operation of the R UK device.

Steve

[gravityblock]

Roebel conductors

I talked about this before, but I think R UK early on had a picture of the wire he was using in his coils. They looked like Roebel Conductors to me.

Roebel conductors are used in AC power generators because of their ability to reduce the current loss in AC generator (alternator) windings.

It it not Litz wire.

Roebel Conductors is a fancy way to say single strands of insulated wire ran in a nontwisted bundle.
If you were to lay out say, seven long strands of insulated 30 Ga magnet wire and group them together as one without twisting them, you would have Roebel conductors.
Each single wire is its own circuit within the coil.

I am not sure why, but in AC generators (alternators) they work very well.
The bundle is used in AC generator coils.

If I remember right, R UK said about the wire he used in his coils, he got the wires that looked like Roebel conductors from deflection coils used in old CRTs.
I did not know that they used this type of wire in CRT deflection coils, but I guess they do.

This may be a factor in the operation of the R UK device.

Steve

Excellent post!

Thanks,

GB

[Joit]

Zerofossilfuel did do a small test with bifilar wound Muller type Coils,
bifilar wound like wire by wire, not the Picture at OU.com from dave?
and he saw not much advantage in it. Single or bifilar did generate
pretty the same amount. Its seems the Point is somewhere else to go.
And i think too, bifilar has her advantage at other Setups,
maybe more as Flat Coils.

[hadcat]

The driver coils were made from the crt and the generator coil wire is the wires.co.uk : Stranded Enamelled Copper Wire 7 X 0.125MM SOLDERABLE STRAND EN.Cu 500g wire from this site.

The painful thing about this approach is the size of each strand and the connecting.

I see no evidence of this in the pictures from RUKs device...don't know for sure.

[Lidmotor]

Litz wire

@All
I tried using the Litz wire and found no advantage over regular magnet wire. Other people tried it also with the same results. I got mine from Nebraska Surplus and is the same stuff that Lasersaber is using. When I add the two generator coils to my "rememberance" toy unit I will use that just as a reminder of one of the "secrets" that didn't work for me. As far as trying to "rewire" the tiny Litz wire strands into a bifilar coil ----well you better be a brain surgeon. The wire strands are very fine. I know why Romero is mentioning that method now and very early on he referred to a video where a guy was doing that kind of rewiring. You get a voltage gain by doing it but I have examined Romero's photos and videos closely and see no evidence of him doing that on the OU unit. If he did then he is hiding THAT very well also. I looked at the photo of his latest project and enlarged it. You can tell that he is still using the Litz wire but it is all solder tinned at the coil ends. The coils all appear to be wrapped in the same direction also. In a very early post he said that he started using the Litz wire after he had wound a Bedini bifilar coil and found that it had better performance over another identical one wound with regular magnet wire. I may try that and see what happens.

@Hadcat & Blackchisel97
I was sure that if I just took my shoes off and walked around the house with my device-----that it would just keep running. THAT had to be the secret. It wasn't.
I wish that I could just let this whole project go but way down inside I still believe that Romero didn't fake this. Too many things had to line up just right in that series of videos (and all the written postings) to pull it off.

We are (or even he is) still missing something.

Lidmotor

[ewizard]

I would tend to be a bit cautious about drawing the conclusion that Romero's secret was bifilar or multifilar winds. Based on how Penno64 presented the info and then PM'd Romero to validate it's correctness I think there may be some liberal interpretation being taken in this. I asked Penno to clarify the PM and have had no reply. Penno also claimed several weeks ago he had found the 'secret' or something to that effect and then no one heard from him for a long while. And as Lidmotor said there was no clear indication from the vids or pics that this was done this way. Also Ben K4ZEP said he had tried bifilar, trifilar and some other xfilar with no real good results. While I do believe the mulitfilar or bifilar has some advantages IMO I doubt it was used in Romero's looped project. Without knowing the exact details of Penno's PM with Romero I would not jump to that conclusion anyway.

[blackchisel97]

@All
I tried using the Litz wire and found no advantage over regular magnet wire. Other people tried it also with the same results. I got mine from Nebraska Surplus and is the same stuff that Lasersaber is using. When I add the two generator coils to my "rememberance" toy unit I will use that just as a reminder of one of the "secrets" that didn't work for me. As far as trying to "rewire" the tiny Litz wire strands into a bifilar coil ----well you better be a brain surgeon. The wire strands are very fine. I know why Romero is mentioning that method now and very early on he referred to a video where a guy was doing that kind of rewiring. You get a voltage gain by doing it but I have examined Romero's photos and videos closely and see no evidence of him doing that on the OU unit. If he did then he is hiding THAT very well also. I looked at the photo of his latest project and enlarged it. You can tell that he is still using the Litz wire but it is all soldered tinned at the coil ends. The coils all appear to be wrapped in the same direction also. In a very early post he said that he started using the Litz wire after he had wound a Bedini bifilar coil and found that it had better performance over another identical one wound with regular magnet wire. I may try that and see what happens.

@Hadcat & Blackchisel97
I was sure that if I just took my shoes off and walked around the house with my device-----that it would just keep running. THAT had to be the secret. It wasn't.
I wish that I could just let this whole project go but way down inside I still believe that Romero didn't fake this. Too many things had to line up just right in that series of videos (and all the written postings) to pull it off.

We are (or even he is) still missing something.

Lidmotor

In my opinion to be able to tell the difference between twisted or plain AWG we would have to have tuned and well working device. I'm not good in theories unless I have something working and I need to come up with one to explain given phenomenon. I have just a mere feeling that splitting and running in branches even if they are connected at the ends maybe superior to plain wire. Frequency may be a factor too. You may recall J.Bedini telling to use few paralleled diodes in the output of SSG instead of just one. This wasn't aimed at making beefier diode. It may be irrelevant but sometimes evil is in details. I cut another rotor and darn thing wobbles tiny bit as well. Not a big deal but causes scope wave fluctuations. Today I was able to see the wave like Romerouk as well as sine wave with two 100uF caps connected in bipolar mode. Core magnets strength and distance is very important. I tried 4 LED paralleled with FWBR, all lit bright. I found that no magnets are needed on drive coils. I also tried to extend some cores above the stator plate to see the difference. My cores are hollow ferrites 6.6mm x 10mm. I'm hoping to get another testing setup done today which will allow me to test different coils without taking my main device apart each time. I want to have ability to play with distance and Bloch Wall on one set of gen coils only and swap them easily. Personally, I have no doubt in Romerouk claim being legitimate and I understand why he was so scared. This had nothing to do with MIB.
I just hope to figure this out. Don't like unsolved mysteries and cold cases.


V

[nueview]

I am a bit amazed that some folks think that this is a waiste of effort as i have seen more new thoughts brought together on this project than on any other.
1: EMF and MMF having been demonstrated as have definite physical differences. (coil shorting at phase point)
2: resonance reduction of power input for reduced power input ( not fully mastered with motors yet )
3:series and paralell capacitor (voltage current phase shifting)
4: impediance matching for load responce .
5: current flow direction verses field contact with coil wind direction.
6: virtual pole action to ferrite materials and there permiance reaction.

this is deffinitly a good project for learning and i for one give it a top rating.
Martin

[SkyWatcher]

Hi folks, I set my setup aside for the moment, though I want to point out some possible similarities I see.
1) Don Smith rotary generator with the large magnet at back of coil and rotating shield that probably shifts the bloch wall within the coil just right to create large output, this probably has to be tuned very precisely just like romerouk's device.
2) magnicoaster, pretty much same idea, magnet at back of coil and I read that it is very difficult to tune the proper bloch wall shifting to get large efficient output.
3) Garry Stanley motor, although not a generator, I think it may have similar actions going on, like when coils attract magnet, the permanent magnet flux is pulled in a direction through the air coils that is the opposite direction of the incoming attracted magnet, which causes a forward emf, aiding input supply. Though again, this probably requires fairly good tuning with coil distances to magnets and such.

At the end of the day, the reason this is so tricky, is because it's the same as tuning in a radio station, though we don't have a tuning dial that is so easy to adjust, we have a multitude of various parts and everyone has different parts, so it is difficult to hit on the right radio station.
That's my theory for now, for what it's worth.
peace love light
tyson

[blackchisel97]

Hi folks, I set my setup aside for the moment, though I want to point out some possible similarities I see.
1) Don Smith rotary generator with the large magnet at back of coil and rotating shield that probably shifts the bloch wall within the coil just right to create large output, this probably has to be tuned very precisely just like romerouk's device.
2) magnicoaster, pretty much same idea, magnet at back of coil and I read that it is very difficult to tune the proper bloch wall shifting to get large efficient output.
3) Garry Stanley motor, although not a generator, I think it may have similar actions going on, like when coils attract magnet, the permanent magnet flux is pulled in a direction through the air coils that is the opposite direction of the incoming attracted magnet, which causes a forward emf, aiding input supply. Though again, this probably requires fairly good tuning with coil distances to magnets and such.

At the end of the day, the reason this is so tricky, is because it's the same as tuning in a radio station, though we don't have a tuning dial that is so easy to adjust, we have a multitude of various parts and everyone has different parts, so it is difficult to hit on the right radio station.
That's my theory for now, for what it's worth.
peace love light
tyson

Yes, I agree. Even more similarities in J. Bedini (1984) with DC motor running gen part and switching controller.
In normal circumstances energized coil looks like a magnet - both poles and neutral wall in the middle. Coil can be used in attraction or repulsion mode. What if back magnet allows to push Bloch wall towards the rotor and may cause the rotor to run in near neutral zone. The only force would be the "kick" from collapsing EMF which is also assisted by Bloch Wall expanding. I may be wrong, just the way I imagine. Could this be enough to fool uncle Lenz?

I'm almost done with my experimental rotor which is the same as in my replication setup. Got driver coil and few gen coils done. I need to make some sort of adjustable support for small bobbins. I want to test same coils which I have used in the device but one set only. While I was soldering driver circuit I thought (again ) about short video which John Bedini showed on youtube almost a year ago; small, blue rotor with small neo magnets and 1/2 bipolar switch triggered by hall. John ran this without a core first and piece of iron later. This rotor was running on couple mA. There is not much torque required to spin this generator. My testing setup pulls 40mA and I could spin this with much less. For some reason I can't get this bipolar switch out of my mind. What you guys think about that?


V