Muller generator replication by Romerouk

[toranarod]

Hi toranarod,
please don't forget, that in slider's new coil there is an additional strand which is not connected. That non-connected strand may function as a capacitor plate related to the other (connected) stands and it may be important that this non-connected strand is in place. So to replicate the effect you would need more than 9 strands.

Maybe you can try your 7 stranded wire, of which you use 6 strands (instead of 9) for the multi-filar connection and leave one strand non-connected.

Good luck and thanks for Slider2732 for pioneering this.

thank you
you have a point

cheers

[Steve220]

thank you
you have a point

cheers

May be a variable capacitor with one side attached to this wire and the other attached to the coil wire or ground could give your coil some tuning ability.

Steve

[Joit]

Slider,
Thank you for your nice Video, but its a kind different by me.
I got thicker Wire and way lesser Windings at the Coils.
The Energy what i need to run it is to much, the resistance in the Coils to less.
I would make a Video, to show you the Motor, but its takes a Hour, dont had the time yet, instead i played again at this Thing.

What did comes out.., well. Compared to your Coil, you may wanna try this.
I assume your Plus is connected the Start of the Coil, your Transistor is (NPN-Mosfet), i assume at the finnish,
take a Diode, connect it at the finnish of the Coil, and go to different Strands with the Diodes, that some of the Energy get redirected into the Strands torwards to Plus again.



Marxist,
One Wire act as Capacitor. O rly. ? With open Ends? How much Farads do you think will this Wire have. Do you even know, how a Capacitor Works?

Steve,
And well, Burning Coil? Seriously. What else can happen with it? Explosion with Fireworks, or.. Rom will burn again?
Heating a Coil is allwas a Matter, how much Energy does run through, and/or a cause of unbalanced Systems.
The Advantage from pulsed Systems is, that you can control the Pulse, and drive the Coils to the Limits, and not endless over it, like its done in most other Systems from EE's, what dont care about efficience or losses, because they put only a Shild or a Fan to the Coils, when they meet the 'Biiig Problem' of Heat.


But you got a Point with a Capacitor even when a wrong Value can mess anything up, but i suggest, to connect it not only at the End to fnnish, but try it it at the different Strands, and even with a Diode.

[Steve220]

Positive feedback

"Steve,
And well, Burning Coil? Seriously. What else can happen with it? Explosion with Fireworks, or.. Rom will burn again?
Heating a Coil is allwas a Matter, how much Energy does run through, and/or a cause of unbalanced Systems.
The Advantage from pulsed Systems is, that you can control the Pulse, and drive the Coils to the Limits, and not endless over it, like its done in most other Systems from EE's, what dont care about efficience or losses, because they put only a Shild or a Fan to the Coils, when they meet the 'Biiig Problem' of Heat."

Hi Joit,

The coil uses positive feedback, it is regenerative, if the coil has no outlet for it's energy, it could over heat. It is an internal short circuit as the coils are shorted internal to themselves. Like any short circuit, high current and voltages could cause over heating due to wire resistances.

In the case of sliders coil, during the ringdown of the coil under positive feedback conditions, the increasing internal frequencies of the current created during decay causing a increased resistance in the wire that is turned in to heat.

This is why a external magnetic load to the core or a external electrical load to the coils should to be used so as to reduce the internal heating of the coil.

The excess energy being generated in the coil has to go somewhere.

If you should create the perfect balance of capacitance and inductance in the coil, you could also create the perfect short circuit and damage the coil as the internal stresses could be severe.

I will let Marxist explain more how the capacitance in one wire can help control the operation of the coil. The coil uses positive feedback, it is regenerative, it is a unstable LC circuit, so a little capacitance goes a long way.

I hope this helps.

Steve

[Slider2732]

Something akin to the Nathan Stubblefield coil is how I think of that spare strand...it goes nowhere, sits with both ends just free to the wind...yet put an LED across it when running at 7.5V and the thing blows !
So, in that light, if such a coil was used as a driver coil, we might find that 2 or 3 extra wires produce very usable voltage as well as current. Is it a free capacitance related energy effect ? can we use that energy and keep the coil properties ?

I know that what i've ever seen of HV works to illuminate an LED or a neon to no more than their running levels, to the point that an LED and a neon can be parallel and neither will blow, both will illuminate yet are vastly different devices. See it all the time in Slayer circuit Tesla coil experiments.
I may have it wrong, but see HV as meeting a load and DC as crashing through anything in its way. And, as discussed with Steve recently, am wondering why these generators aren't primarily tuned frequency AC based, rather than current hammering DC.
To ripple ramp and resonate in a harmony seems the domain of AC, where a device needs to meet the loads introduced to it.

I'll do the diode thing Joit, I like that idea
Also going to run 3 coils on the same motor as yesterday, all 120 degrees or so apart, 2x 7 strand and 1 nine. Such that the motor runs on any of them before all are connected.
If the motor runs well it may be called 'Voyager' - in reference to Star Trek and the Seven of Nine character lol

[Xenomorph]

Something akin to the Nathan Stubblefield coil is how I think of that spare strand...it goes nowhere, sits with both ends just free to the wind...yet put an LED across it when running at 7.5V and the thing blows !
So, in that light, if such a coil was used as a driver coil, we might find that 2 or 3 extra wires produce very usable voltage as well as current. Is it a free capacitance related energy effect ? can we use that energy and keep the coil properties ?

I know that what i've ever seen of HV works to illuminate an LED or a neon to no more than their running levels, to the point that an LED and a neon can be parallel and neither will blow, both will illuminate yet are vastly different devices. See it all the time in Slayer circuit Tesla coil experiments.
I may have it wrong, but see HV as meeting a load and DC as crashing through anything in its way. And, as discussed with Steve recently, am wondering why these generators aren't primarily tuned frequency AC based, rather than current hammering DC.
To ripple ramp and resonate in a harmony seems the domain of AC, where a device needs to meet the loads introduced to it.

I'll do the diode thing Joit, I like that idea
Also going to run 3 coils on the same motor as yesterday, all 120 degrees or so apart, 2x 7 strand and 1 nine. Such that the motor runs on any of them before all are connected.
If the motor runs well it may be called 'Voyager' - in reference to Star Trek and the Seven of Nine character lol

@Slider:
Thanks for your experiments with series bifilar driver coils.
I actually went ahead and did some measurements on a 15 strand 0.1mm Litz wire coil (Litz wire is 15x 0.1mm Block Trafo CLI 200/15 FA-NR.: 40008)

Without the series connection it measured:

Resistance: 16 Ohm Inductance: 1.95mH

and in series bifilar connection using 7 and 8 strand pairs:

Resistance : 17.9 Ohm Inductance : 8.42 mH

But the best thing is that i replaced my old unifilar drive coil in my test pulse motor which had also around 8-10 mH inductance with the
series bifilar coil and i managed to run the same RPM (!) with about 30% less i/p current.
80mA before, 55 mA after.

In the same way that used as an electromagnet it picks up more needles, if used as a drive coil it gives a higher flux push to the rotor magnets.

Keep it up

[quantumuppercut]

@Slider:
Thanks for your experiments with series bifilar driver coils.
I actually went ahead and did some measurements on a 15 strand 0.1mm Litz wire coil (Litz wire is 15x 0.1mm Block Trafo CLI 200/15 FA-NR.: 40008)

Without the series connection it measured:

Resistance: 16 Ohm Inductance: 1.95mH

and in series bifilar connection using 7 and 8 strand pairs:

Resistance : 17.9 Ohm Inductance : 8.42 mH

But the best thing is that i replaced my old unifilar drive coil in my test pulse motor which had also around 8-10 mH inductance with the
series bifilar coil and i managed to run the same RPM (!) with about 30% less i/p current.
80mA before, 55 mA after.

In the same way that used as an electromagnet it picks up more needles, if used as a drive coil it gives a higher flux push to the rotor magnets.

Keep it up

I'm also reading up big time on the skin effect. Seems like Tesla bifilar coil patent aimed at neutralizing the skin effect thus increase coil efficiency. This is all very interesting. Thank you all.

[Slider2732]

Got skin sweat effect here lol, 106F today. If the Earth returned to resonance would it cool down ?

Quick video, just showing how rotor rotation isn't needed for back spikes.
Thanks to Joit for the diode idea, here it's an LED - plus another LED on the spare strand.
Might not be much power, but the speed of rotation when the motor is running isn't affected with both LED additions...so it could be usable energy being outputted as a freebie, if indeed someone with one of those posh speed sensors confirms.
Facts and figures for power used:
4.5V - 12mA
6V - 23mA

YouTube - ‪Wobbly power - Pulse Motor‬‏

[Slider2732]

Sorry for the awful pic below (again), but I wanted to try something out...that's now been found to work great. It's not really Muller related, yet does show the use of that spare strand.
While several experiments were to be conducted this evening anyway, I decided to see about charging a very old Ni-MH cell that was found on a circuit board, one of those battery backup sort of things.
It has sat in series with an LED on the 2 ends of the spare strand for the past hour or so...voltage now - 1.2V

Just thought folks might like to expand on the idea some time in the future, for a desulfator/charger concept.

[toranarod]

Hello slider
Nice work on the coil charging the battery
And another good video.

I am working on the new coil. Been doing the calculations for the former
Turns out I need a large ferrite core for this one. The bobbin is going to be large
It may look like this.

I think I will try to reduce its size. I need the turns for the voltage. Just getting to big?
What to do?

[Joit]

"Steve,

I hope this helps.

Steve

Help what? Make me Laugh?

I suggest you to build such things, and not playing the Armchair scientist,
before i start ranting, like 'positive Feedback', go and learn something about Galvanic Batteries, and observe, if your so called Pluspole really change, especially Graphite, or your balancing a Circuit, where it seems you have no Idea, what it is all about, or your 'perfect Short'.

Fire from Coils, One unconnected Wire-Capacitor from 1/10 Strand, yeah sure.
I think, Peoples here are mature enough, that they can estimate by her own what they do build and where the limits are, Plus, HOW to fix Problems.

[Joit]

Slider, yes, the Diode does not much, just help a little Bit, i tried it at the Muller Coils as i had 2 Pairs in Serie, but it still gives something more back and made the Rotor run better.



Toranarod, i would cut the Core to the Size from the Coil, a to large Core gave me no advantages at other Coils. I think anyway, most of the Cores i build are to large. It is even may better, you build the Coil higher as larger, but it still depends a bit to the Size of your Magnets.
Even a adjustable Core is may a Idea, what you can move in and out.

[yx630514]

Hi Slider2732 toranarod,
Thanks again for help.
I changed to use 220V 13W energy-saving lamp as the load, Speed is no longer slow down, But also a slight increase of about 5rpm.
Problem:
1) Why very little increase in speed?
2) Why energy-saving lamp can only flashes. Not continuous light?

PS: Energy-saving lamp flashes speed to follow the rotor speed changes, Rotor speed slow when the, Energy-saving lamp flashes is also slow, When the rotor speed up to a certain speed when the, Energy saving lamp flashes fast, However, if the rotor speed continues to increase, Energy-saving lamp will stop flashes, Not the slightest light.

[Slider2732]

Ah, interesting yx.
What you seem to be experiencing is similar to an effect noticed on my motors.
Only at a certain range or during a speed up would a neon illuminate. Before that speed and voltage there was nothing, after that speed and voltage was nothing. It lit for just a short period inbetween.
I fixed that problem with series HV capacitors, It might not work for you, but I added a 0.1uF and a 0.22uF HV capacitor between the positive rail and 1 leg of the neon (which would be your bulb). After doing that, the spikes remained for long enough to illuminate the bulb at anywhere from 6V and above. On the FanGen unit I saw that the neon only had 1 leg lit until adding the caps, then both were lit.
Might be worth trying that and you might find that different sizes of HV capacitors work better than some others.

[Joit]

Sorry, i had to steal this Picture and turn it 90°, because i did still think about it.

Now when i figure this as one Coil, so isnt that like, that it is a Phase shifting inside the the Wires/Bundles, because the Current from the first Windings get Delay with the Resistance from the Wire,
but connecting them to the Start makes a pysical Start Point at the beginning again, but with a delayed Current.
Anyhow it seems like, there are 3 Waves created.
Putting the Load on the Coil makes the BEMF and makes the Field stronger,
where the BEMF restrict it, that it can use more Power for consumption.