Muller generator replication by Romerouk

[Shadesz]

Here are some vids about the bifilar coil.

How to Wind a Bifilar Coil - YouTube
Make a Joule Thief - YouTube

It's the same as normal coil except there are 2 wires instead of 1. There are 4 ends total.

1s---------------------------------1f
2s---------------------------------2f

1s= wire 1 start end
1f= wire 1 finish end
2s= wire 2 start end
2f = wire 2 finish end
-------------------------= wire

I left the 1f and 2s alone and just connect the 1s and 2f to a full bridge rectifier. The current draw should be proportional to flux change and wire capacitance and the coil should be lenzless if capacitance and magnet speed is not too high, but need testing to confirm.

Interesting. Thanks

RPM results with no coil, un-loaded coil, and loaded coil would be interesting to see. Note: if you do this can you also show the input wattage on each? (not looking for over-unity, just to see which ones increase draw)

[quantumuppercut]

Interesting. Thanks

RPM results with no coil, un-loaded coil, and loaded coil would be interesting to see. Note: if you do this can you also show the input wattage on each? (not looking for over-unity, just to see which ones increase draw)

I agree that's the way to test it. I've tried some experiment along the line.

I inserted a 10 Ohm resistor in series with the input to monitor the current (Sorry, lacking of sophisticated equipment). If current go up, we have speed decrease, if current go down, we have speed increase.

With the coil in place unloaded, it reads .833V . When I dead short the coil, it still read .833V. I don't rely too much on this result though. The system is sensitively small so the observation band is also small.

When I remove the coil from the setup, it reads .867V This shows a speed decrease. Later I found out that the board vibrate which burn energy. Having the coil in place clamped down with weight makes it less vibrate. Hope we can test this on an accurate level.

[toranarod]

Rod,

I'm having a problem seeing how the RPM's you have in this test relate to the frequency. At that RPM I calculate that a magnet should pass the gen coil 541.2 times per second, but this doesn't reflect your 663 cycles per Microsecond.

Can you help me understand the relationship? Thanks in advance. PS, I hope your build is coming along nicely.

One thing i have had difficultly explaining. The first three columns of data are only related to the drive coil and has nothing to do with the generator coil.
This data only represent how much energy is used to achieve drive speed.

I have been trying to find away to achieve the 4000 RPM and reduce these figures, lower the duty cycle and you lower current consumption. The drive pulse time determined how many watts is required to get the RPM needed. I use this data tune the motor to the same specification each test.

[marxist]

Hi toranarod,
thanks for the clarification about the columns on the left side of your data sheets.

I understand that in the first column "Duty Cycle in micro Sec" you give the "ON-time". That is the duration, for which you supply energy to the drive coil.
But what actually happens to the drive coil during the time which is quoted in the second column "Frequency in micro Sec"?
What does the quoted period (663 micro Sec) signify?
Thanks

edit: After pondering over it, I think I know what the figures in the second column mean: The second column gives the period between drive pulses. And that parameter only comes into play, when you use multiple "drive pulses per event", as you initially did.
But since you went back to basically "1 drive pulses per event", the second column is more or less meaningless. Right?

[Zooty]

Hi toranarod,
thanks for the clarification about the columns on the left side of your data sheets.

I understand that in the first column "Duty Cycle in micro Sec" you give the "ON-time". That is the duration, for which you supply energy to the drive coil.
But what actually happens to the drive coil during the time which is quoted in the second column "Frequency in micro Sec"?
What does the quoted period (663 micro Sec) signify?
Thanks

edit: After pondering over it, I think I know what the figures in the second column mean: The second column gives the period between drive pulses. And that parameter only comes into play, when you use multiple "drive pulses per event", as you initially did.
But since you went back to basically "1 drive pulses per event", the second column is more or less meaningless. Right?

If this was the period between drive pulses, would it not change when the rpm changes?

[toranarod]

If this was the period between drive pulses, would it not change when the rpm changes?

No the time is delivered by a processor and is not controlled by speed.
So if the conditions of the load change the delivered current cannot.
The display below in the photo should explain this.

This system enables control of motor drive coil with great precision.
The processor also control's timing like the ECU does in a car.
When you manipulate all these factors it is possible to get the best efficiency and RPM and come back to the parameters to make test and determine the success of your next coil design and so on

Thank you marxist
you are correct.

[marxist]

edit:
deleted. contained simultaneous posting

[toranarod]

edit:
deleted. contained simultaneous posting

what did I ?

[marxist]

Sorry.
I seem to have caused a missunderstanding. (That is my specality)
It was just, that I posted my last posting at the same time you did yours, and so mine proved to be irrelevant, which is why I deleted it.

[Shadesz]

Ahh. I see. Thanks Rod you're the man.

What hardware and software are you using to do that? About how much did it cost you?

[quantumuppercut]

I've done some more experiments today.

The same setup as before. 10 Ohm series resistor to monitor input current to determine speed change. It reads about .880V unloaded.

This time I tested with several AC caps in series with coil to estimate the tolerance of Lenz. Coil and Cap connected and short out while monitor RPM.

102K --- 1 nf or .001 uf
103J --- 10 nf or .01 uf
104M --- 100 nf or .1 uf
1 uf --- 1000 nf or 1 uf
1.0K --- 1000 nf or 1 uf
.82 uf --- big 2100VAC cap from microwave

When short without any cap, reading increase to .885V . This shows a speed decrease as expected by Lenz. When testing each capacitor, there is no measurable change in RPM. I would implies we can continue to increase coil and cap size to increase power until Lenz kicks in.

[toranarod]

The controller

Ahh. I see. Thanks Rod you're the man.

What hardware and software are you using to do that? About how much did it cost you?

The controller I use to run the drive coils is PIC 16F648 and about 30 dollars worth of support electronic components. The software I wrote my self .

I am more than happy to send you the program the components are available from any supplier. Good fun to play with on your motor.

[toranarod]

I've done some more experiments today.

The same setup as before. 10 Ohm series resistor to monitor input current to determine speed change. It reads about .880V unloaded.

This time I tested with several AC caps in series with coil to estimate the tolerance of Lenz. Coil and Cap connected and short out while monitor RPM.

102K --- 1 nf or .001 uf
103J --- 10 nf or .01 uf
104M --- 100 nf or .1 uf
1 uf --- 1000 nf or 1 uf
1.0K --- 1000 nf or 1 uf
.82 uf --- big 2100VAC cap from microwave

When short without any cap, reading increase to .885V . This shows a speed decrease as expected by Lenz. When testing each capacitor, there is no measurable change in RPM. I would implies we can continue to increase coil and cap size to increase power until Lenz kicks in.

I have been trying the same thing with caps please keep posting your results

[quantumuppercut]

I have been trying the same thing with caps please keep posting your results

Thanks Rod, but you're the tanker here. I'm just a supporter. Mondrasek said the waveform looks like Romero so I searched minoly channel to find the waveform. I think this is the one.

Resonance in a Bifilar Coil - YouTube @3:50

Please keep us updated with your work.

[toranarod]

I’m back on the Romero trail with my DC to DC converter.

The DC to DC converter came in on Friday and I spent today testing a variety of load conditions and output voltages from the DC converter.
The useful function of the DC converter that I was able to take full advantage of is…that one can set up an output voltage condition of a desired potential and draw large amounts of current from a very low voltage potential input, creating the required condition of what would be an almost short circuit across the generator coil. This takes advantage of the high current being drawn, which in turn creates the desired effect of the acceleration under load, e.g. in one test conducted today, 3.6 volts at 350 mille amps going into the DC converter was able to see an acceleration from 4120 RPM up to 4199 RPM. The output of the DC converter was a usable, regulated voltage of 13.2 volts. This is exciting because, as we have seen, the greater the load across the generator coil the lower the voltage potential is across the generator coil, the better we are able to negate Lens drag.