Muller generator replication by Romerouk

[ewizard]

toranarod said: "No load No coil and no side magnets 4106 RPM
No load with coil and no side magnets 4099 RPM
Full load 190 m AMPS at 6 volts 4145 RPM very quick acceleration. "
Now I really like that

toranarod said: "Now here the bit that has got me in a spin. short the coil 4088 RPM I got no idea why." Well that's an oddity but the real important find is that a full load is at higher RPM and that is HUGE! Nice work!

[toranarod]

I'd like to ask you something concerning your process of making the cores.
Did you also anneal the mu-metal after putting the mechanical pressure on it or are you calculating the losses in while still reaching an improved core operation with the mu-metal?
Thanks

No i did not anneal the mu metal. Its just as I described in the post above.
Chopped up a sheet of Mu metal into strips and glued them together to make a core the size that would replace the iron core. Very time consuming and messy
but at the end came out OK. I don't fancy making 9 cores like this.
Anyway NOW What do we do.
The more I work on Lenz law the more I understand it. Start to see other possibilities and ways to manipulate it. the thing with Lenz law it is very predictable. I want to lower the speed of the generator so it would work at any RPM imagine the applications for wind generators.
I am thinking about this all the time. If we are to release an OU device onto the market
We need to sneak it in the back door. How about a wind generator that is basically OU because it is lenzless bit is powered by the wind. A device that nobody knows is over unity. Anyway getting a bit ahead of my self back to the work at hand.
I saw a generator on YouTube that was claimed to be Lenz less. What he was doing was not moving the magnet or the coils. He was chopping the magnetic field with an impeller. What a good Idea I thought. Combine this with what we have already learned and I have a few new ideas as well.

[Farmhand]

I saw a generator on YouTube that was claimed to be Lenz less. What he was doing was not moving the magnet or the coils. He was chopping the magnetic field with an impeller. What a good Idea I thought. Combine this with what we have already learned and I have a few new ideas as well.

You mean something similar to this Don Smith Device I mentioned in this post earlier in the thread ?
http://www.energeticforum.com/141441-post251.html

Seems like a good idea. Can't see why it wouldn't work. An interupter disc to interupt the flux paths or whatever, it should only require the energy to spin the interupter disc and it could be spun very fast without fear of flying to pieces because it would be a solid single piece.

Cheers

[quantumuppercut]

From Overchuss at OU:

Hi folks,

i've just achieved speed-up with shorted coil and also with a 'normal' (light bulb) load, at relativ low RPM (~ 1200, sorry no tacho ). And no Lenz, if no acceleration occurs !

That's absolutely cooool ! I've never seen this before.

My setup:
A rotor (12 cm dia.) with 7 NEOs, 20 mm (dia.) x 5 mm thick (N52), NN Arrangement.
6 Coils (1 Motor-Coil, 5 Pick-up Coils)

I've achieved this with a Steel (V2A ?) screw, 45 mm long, 10 mm dia.
3 mm Distance to the Rotor. The speed-up effect occurs with both low inductance, as well with high inductance.
The higher the inductance - the better the acceleration, though.

The Dimensions of my coil bobbins: 36 mm (dia.) x 11 mm (thick), with a 10 mm hole (for audio crossover applications).

(Test) Coil Inductance, Resistance: from 470 uH, 0.8 Ohm (0.6 mm Gauge) to 2.55 mH, 6.55 Ohm (0.3 mm Gauge).


The coil to rotor distance is ~ 25 mm to end of the screw (head).

The solution to achieve OU is (most likely): A Iron Laminat Core !!!

I think, we are very, very close to OU !

Gerald


P.S.
Sorry for my lousy english, this is not my native language.


Seems like more successful replications. Yes, I think if we can do it at standard walmart fan speed. We can just make those coils and sell them. lol We just need to pin down how it works. So far we can generate some parameters:

Inductance - the higher the better
Resistance - the lower the better
Core type - high mu?
current - higher the better (too high Lenz kick in again?)
position - adjusting needed

[toranarod]

From Overchuss at OU:

Hi folks,

i've just achieved speed-up with shorted coil and also with a 'normal' (light bulb) load, at relativ low RPM (~ 1200, sorry no tacho ). And no Lenz, if no acceleration occurs !

That's absolutely cooool ! I've never seen this before.

My setup:
A rotor (12 cm dia.) with 7 NEOs, 20 mm (dia.) x 5 mm thick (N52), NN Arrangement.
6 Coils (1 Motor-Coil, 5 Pick-up Coils)

I've achieved this with a Steel (V2A ?) screw, 45 mm long, 10 mm dia.
3 mm Distance to the Rotor. The speed-up effect occurs with both low inductance, as well with high inductance.
The higher the inductance - the better the acceleration, though.

The Dimensions of my coil bobbins: 36 mm (dia.) x 11 mm (thick), with a 10 mm hole (for audio crossover applications).

(Test) Coil Inductance, Resistance: from 470 uH, 0.8 Ohm (0.6 mm Gauge) to 2.55 mH, 6.55 Ohm (0.3 mm Gauge).


The coil to rotor distance is ~ 25 mm to end of the screw (head).

The solution to achieve OU is (most likely): A Iron Laminat Core !!!

I think, we are very, very close to OU !

Gerald


P.S.
Sorry for my lousy english, this is not my native language.


Seems like more successful replications. Yes, I think if we can do it at standard walmart fan speed. We can just make those coils and sell them. lol We just need to pin down how it works. So far we can generate some parameters:

Inductance - the higher the better
Resistance - the lower the better
Core type - high mu?
current - higher the better (too high Lenz kick in again?)
position - adjusting needed

I am very happy to hear of your results, this is great news. The more information we can accumulate on this the better.
YES its a great feeling to see it on your own work bench.
I would like to see any data you have about the experiment.
well done

[elias]

Yes Iron is the solution to beat the lenz law at lower RPM, WOW! I think that we can safely say we have made it, only the fine tuning is what remains to be done.

It was all embedded in the Iron symbol (ferrum): Fe = Free Energy !!! coincidence? I think not! Interestingly, Iron also is the source of biological life. I can't be more excited.

[Slider2732]

Reading along here. I liked the Fe link to Free energy...cool !
Time to iron this out.


.

[toranarod]

Yes Iron is the solution to beat the lenz law at lower RPM, WOW! I think that we can safely say we have made it, only the fine tuning is what remains to be done.

It was all embedded in the Iron symbol (ferrum): Fe = Free Energy !!! coincidence? I think not! Interestingly, Iron also is the source of biological life. I can't be more excited.

one other very important point. I think this has been covered before
but just to recap this.

The coil needs to be set back from the end of the core. just far enough to stop the lenz field from the copper having to great an effect but to far and you drop to much voltage.

MU metal works a bit better but not worth the extra fuss at this point.



Slider HA HA.. iron this out.

[quantumuppercut]

I am very happy to hear of your results, this is great news. The more information we can accumulate on this the better.
YES its a great feeling to see it on your own work bench.
I would like to see any data you have about the experiment.
well done

Oh it's not me. hehe It's a guy over at OU name Overchuss. But this is good, we need independent and more replications of this effect, then we could involve physicists to derive a model for this. The engineer can follow the model and improve the design.

One thing I notice is both Overchuss and Marius use bolt. That would have more eddy current than laminated core. They both achieve the effect at relatively lower speed. Therefore, I wonder if eddy current is a desire property for this effect along with high mu.

[kEhYo77]

Now when I look at the Neo-Gen/Muller design of coils some things become more obvious. So for this effect to manifest at relatively low RPM there has to be a part of the core sticking out in the front, ha? Hmm...
What I also see is that the core, made from magnetite dust is encased with a pipe, that looks metallic (Maybe for those eddy currents to help things out).
The guy from THIS video uses similar design (a pipe around the core) to achieve the acceleration effect. He says that the clue to use metal/aluminium bobbin for generator coils came from Ed Leedscalnin's notes on magnetism.

[Mark]

Hey Guys,

I have for the first time been able to see rotor speeds increase when shorting a coil out. Was a very simple setup, I have Ricks Classic 3-Pole kit. I was just runinng a simple SSG circuit to get my rotor up to 3,000 rpm's. Then I took the supplied generator coil and mounted it on the frame but instead of bolting it down normally I flipped it upside down so the coils is 1.75 inches away from th erotor instead of .25 inches.

Then I inserted some 3.5 in. welding rods down thru the coil and about .35 in. from the rotor. This of course lowered the rotor speed to 2823.

If I short the coil out the rotor speed increases to 2844. Not a big increase but easy to replicate if you have the same kit. It worked with many different starting speeds for me.

If I attach a load to the coil the rotor does slow down though.

[mondrasek]

I finally had some free time today. Made a new rotor. (8) .5"x.5"dia n42 (or at least that is what I bought several years ago), all same pole facing out from the edge of the rotor.

Because of the new aero drag conditons I can only get ~2230 RPM max. I am sure I could increase that if needed by placing air shields close to the rotor.

So, Rod, what do you need tested? I have variable RPM control, BTW.

M.

PS. 6lb of 7x36 Litz arived last Friday. The buck/boost DC/DC convertor is in transit with Speed Mail from HK.

[toranarod]

steal bots

hello to all.
That's a good idea. I have tested every thing else.
I can quickly inset bolt of the same dimension into my coil to replace the laminated core. that will be interesting if what we thought was the worst set up became the best setup. An OU device you can build from your Hardware store.
that will freak out the energy company's

[toranarod]

Now when I look at the Neo-Gen/Muller design of coils some things become more obvious. So for this effect to manifest at relatively low RPM there has to be a part of the core sticking out in the front, ha? Hmm...
What I also see is that the core, made from magnetite dust is encased with a pipe, that looks metallic (Maybe for those eddy currents to help things out).
The guy from THIS video uses similar design (a pipe around the core) to achieve the acceleration effect. He says that the clue to use metal/aluminium bobbin for generator coils came from Ed Leedscalnin's notes on magnetism.

thanks for the Photo
It all makes complete sense now? So now we know how to do it.
Who is going to be the first to build an OU motor
who is working on a full prototype for a full size working generator.
I did some drafting on the weekend. there are just few unknown dimensions but will have that sorted out soon.

[toranarod]

looking back

Just looking back at Romero's setup I would like to say some of his design makes good sense, but there are other parts that don't I guess we will never know?
If it didn't work he was very close. and if it did its his secret.