Muller generator replication by Romerouk

[stevie1001]

@ Stevie how big is big ?

@ Sky, oh i see 10 coils meaning 5 per side.

@ Rod thanks for photo, very nice.

@ Elias, a hose or plastic tubing ! I never thought of that, what do you use to keep it tight ?

ROTOR = 36 CM DIAM.
1CM THICK PVC
8 NEOS OF 20MM BY 10MM TYPE N40 Pull max 11kg each

[SkyWatcher]

Hi folks, Hi gyula, I don't seem to recall much if any heat last time i used a setup like this with bolts, though I'll definitely check and let you know once I get these 4 other coils finished and the drive motor setup.
I know what you are saying about the eddy currents, though I think with all same magnet polarities out on a rotor, it is not as significant, since hysteresis is less because of that also.
Though sometimes I get the feeling that in typical motors, they use such a small amount of copper for the coils, that much of the heat actually comes from the coils being pushed into releasing more heat than magnetic field by using too many amps.
Joseph Newman explains this observation about copper pretty well, if you exceed a certain input threshold for a given amount of copper, all you get is a higher ratio of heat instead of a magnetic field.
peace love light
tyson

[abdlquadri]

Thane C. Heins

Thane Heins' Regenerative Acceleration Generator Goes Instead of Stopping

[scratchrobot]

Thane Heins' Regenerative Acceleration Generator Goes Instead of Stopping

Is he using high voltage low amps and low voltage high amps on one coil (two windings), before magnet is at TDC HV and then at TDC he switches the coil to LV ?

[SkyWatcher]

Hi folks, Hi scratchrobot, from what I've researched of thanes work, unless he has changed some aspects of his main device principle, he uses a thinner gauge wire and a lot of it on the main core.
Then he used a heavier gauge wire coil wrap on top of that to recover a lower voltage output to power small bulb.
Though just the inner main, thin high gauge coil shorted out, accelerates on its own.
peace love light
tyson

[Shadesz]

So I was able to skip 4 semesters of math last week but man my brain hurts now lol. Good reading so far. Interesting idea to use those rc motors to drive the system. Question...

They seem to prefer lower voltage higher current correct? Is this partly what makes them attractive to use as OU drive coils (using the dc to dc converter to do this)?

[stevie1001]

ROTOR = 36 CM DIAM.
1CM THICK PVC
8 NEOS OF 20MM BY 10MM TYPE N40 Pull max 11kg each

Small update:
I made a new control circuit with monostable 555 chip for controlling pulse duration of the hall pulse.

The rotor is now doing 975 rpm on 2.5watts on one set of drivercoils

[qvision]

Stevie, try putting your drive coils in series, if they are already, try adding another one, sometimes you can get the same or more RPM for less input current.

[stevie1001]

Stevie, try putting your drive coils in series, if they are already, try adding another one, sometimes you can get the same or more RPM for less input current.

Hi QV,

The drive coils are already in serie.
I will try soon an extra set of drivecoils.
I ll guess we are on the same level

Tonight, i want to play with recovery of bemf. The fet is becoming a bit warm and thats energy waist from bemf. The 2.5watts could be cut in half if the bemf recovery
is done properly.
Keep you updated!
I will be soon up to the level of beating lenz up ..........

[scratchrobot]

Hi folks, Hi scratchrobot, from what I've researched of thanes work, unless he has changed some aspects of his main device principle, he uses a thinner gauge wire and a lot of it on the main core.
Then he used a heavier gauge wire coil wrap on top of that to recover a lower voltage output to power small bulb.
Though just the inner main, thin high gauge coil shorted out, accelerates on its own.
peace love light
tyson

Thanks for the info I will try that

Regards

[elias]

Hi

I made some calculations to see what type of coil has the maximum delay ~ L/R.

A typical coil inductance is:

L ~ u * K * N^2 * A / l

by substituting A = pi*r^2:

L ~ u * K * N^2 * r^2 * pi / l

where u is the permeability, K is Nagaoka coefficient, N is the number of turns, A is the coil surface area, and l is the coil length.

R ~ pi * r * N, where r is the coil radius and N is the number of turns.

Now we will omit the constants for simplicity and calculate L/R:

L/R ~ K * N * r / l

According to the graph below we will derive a forumula for K:


K ~ 1 - exp( - l / 2r )

Then:

L/R ~ (1-exp(-l/2r) * N * r / l

By substituting a = l / r, we get:

L/R ~ (1-exp(-a/2)) * N / a

As you can see there are two terms that needs to be maximized to maximize the response delay: N, which can only be limited by the physical dimensions, and (1-exp(-a/2))/a,

According to this formula, as a gets smaller, The delay gets bigger, so the pancake coil has the maximum delay. We are limited by physical dimensions. If we are to increase the number of turns so we have to increase the coil length, but we must not exceed a = 1. In a = 1 we have lost 20% of the coil inductance already. For a = 0.5 we lose about 11% of coil inductance, which is more preferable. As the coil length increases Inductance approaches zero.

a = 1 means that our coil length to radius ratio is about equal. Romeros coils were close to these dimensions.

In short, on order the maximize L/R we need to minimize l/r.

Elias

[toranarod]

Hi

I made some calculations to see what type of coil has the maximum delay ~ L/R.

A typical coil inductance is:

L ~ u * K * N^2 * A / l

by substituting A = pi*r^2:

L ~ u * K * N^2 * r^2 * pi / l

where u is the permeability, K is Nagaoka coefficient, N is the number of turns, A is the coil surface area, and l is the coil length.

R ~ pi * r * N, where r is the coil radius and N is the number of turns.

Now we will omit the constants for simplicity and calculate L/R:

L/R ~ K * N * r / l

According to the graph below we will derive a forumula for K:


K ~ 1 - exp( - l / 2r )

Then:

L/R ~ (1-exp(-l/2r) * N * r / l

By substituting a = l / r, we get:

L/R ~ (1-exp(-a/2)) * N / a

As you can see there are two terms that needs to be maximized to maximize the response delay: N, which can only be limited by the physical dimensions, and (1-exp(-a/2))/a,

According to this formula, as a gets smaller, The delay gets bigger, so the pancake coil has the maximum delay. We are limited by physical dimensions. If we are to increase the number of turns so we have to increase the coil length, but we must not exceed a = 1. In a = 1 we have lost 20% of the coil inductance already. For a = 0.5 we lose about 11% of coil inductance, which is more preferable. As the coil length increases Inductance approaches zero.

a = 1 means that our coil length to radius ratio is about equal. Romeros coils were close to these dimensions.

In short, on order the maximize L/R we need to minimize l/r.

Elias

Good post
somebody is doing it right. I will copy the Photo if THAT'S OK.

I haven't posted for a while Have been having problems with balance at 7000 RPM, the noise and vibration was no good for prolonged use. I got it all sorted now. I am waiting on my magnetite to arrive.
hope to show a video.

good work
Rod

[toranarod]

Is he using high voltage low amps and low voltage high amps on one coil (two windings), before magnet is at TDC HV and then at TDC he switches the coil to LV ?

just a point about this motor. he also talks about high RPM before he engages the generator coils.

[qvision]

Hi Rod,

what did you do to minimise vibration/noise ?

[hello_all]

interesting fact..

seen some more videos , most of the people have 2 coils one for high current and one for high voltage .. they short the high voltage low current coil and it speeds up the rotor and then they get the high current on the 2nd coil , which they put the load... So 2 sets one to speed up and the second to put load .. Some people have one coil made in which the inside is for high current and outside for high voltage .. Short the high voltage one and then speed up to get the current out.. this way they don;t loose the rpm..