Muller generator replication by Romerouk

[SkyWatcher]

Single Ferrite Bead Core/Coil Test

Hi folks, I tested my single ferrite bead core/coil in repulsion and it works pretty good.

Though I have confirmed that the coil still gets warm at 24 volts when holding the shaft to draw the same current as with all 5 steel bolts and 1 drive before.
So I was exceeding the amp capacity of this wire and still am with this core/coil.
Though I would say, the pulse on time is probably on far too long and that would solve the issue.
I noticed the flyback charging is much better though and also that when I'm using 24 volts input, normally if one charges a 12 volt battery off the flayback, it tends to increase the input amps.
Though my setup is not doing that.
I will now make the other 9 core/coils, since I'm using the 5 core(10 total) 6 magnet rotor configuration for now.
Here's a pic of the single coil test setup.


Uploaded with ImageShack.us
peace love light
tyson

[toranarod]

Toranarod,

I doubt he would be using a voltage step up converter if he was trying to prevent it from burning up the coils. It would only make sense that he was trying to limit power flow hence the reason that in the video he kept putting his hand on the converter to see if it was hot.

I don't think I'll be adding to your rotor machining order. My sister might be able to get me access to her company's Machine shop. Thanks anyway.

Dave

thanks for your interest. I have decided not to get ten units made there was not enough interests. I am only having two made for me.

My Bobbins are in.

[Slider2732]

Great work being done here and over at the other forum.
I'm jumping in
Please do forgive, right from the outset, my lack of test equipment or time here posting. Folks may know me from the Joule Thief/exciter circuits big thread.
I saw all this happen with the original video from Romero, copied everything fearing it would be ripped from us and then started thinking to do something...zero budget, little in the way of test equipment.
So I don't have an exact replication and couldn't, but am hoping to offer any insights that I run into and gain experience within this thread and project.

Built my first ever pulse motor today and have just had a 10 minute run from a 1F Carborundum capacitor
I've got a video, will be uploading it to YouTube shortly.
I would like to know, from your experiences, whether such a thing is normal. But, more so, how on earth a bridge rectifier could work with just 1 input lead from the coil outputs ? I'd disconnected 1 of the leads while running tests on magnet placements, to reduce cogging etc as we've all been reading about. With just this 1 wire connected It would spin down after 5 rotations of the little rotor. But then, with a certain magnet configuration, as will be seen in the video (will post link as soon as it's uploaded, if indeed it's something not 100% normal), the thing did the 10 minute run
Circuit is ultra simple and is explained in this first video linked below. The second video has the 10 minute run and has to be uploaded yet. 2SC2240 transistor, Hall Effect sensor and coil.

YouTube - Pulse Motor - 3 magnet experiment

Attached is the original circuit, before I added the 1F cap and sat that under a 1000uF 16V cap that was originally to be used.

[toranarod]

Great work being done here and over at the other forum.
I'm jumping in
Please do forgive, right from the outset, my lack of test equipment or time here posting. Folks may know me from the Joule Thief/exciter circuits big thread.
I saw all this happen with the original video from Romero, copied everything fearing it would be ripped from us and then started thinking to do something...zero budget, little in the way of test equipment.
So I don't have an exact replication and couldn't, but am hoping to offer any insights that I run into and gain experience within this thread and project.

Built my first ever pulse motor today and have just had a 10 minute run from a 1F Carborundum capacitor
I've got a video, will be uploading it to YouTube shortly.
I would like to know, from your experiences, whether such a thing is normal. But, more so, how on earth a bridge rectifier could work with just 1 input lead from the coil outputs ? I'd disconnected 1 of the leads while running tests on magnet placements, to reduce cogging etc as we've all been reading about. With just this 1 wire connected It would spin down after 5 rotations of the little rotor. But then, with a certain magnet configuration, as will be seen in the video (will post link as soon as it's uploaded, if indeed it's something not 100% normal), the thing did the 10 minute run
Circuit is ultra simple and is explained in this first video linked below. The second video has the 10 minute run and has to be uploaded yet. 2SC2240 transistor, Hall Effect sensor and coil.

YouTube - Pulse Motor - 3 magnet experiment

Attached is the original circuit, before I added the 1F cap and sat that under a 1000uF 16V cap that was originally to be used.

great to have you on this project we all think this could be the one that may get things going.

Good work

cheers

[Slider2732]

Thanks and yes indeed...we know it can be done and that may well be the thing, knowledge not just speculation. Tip the mental connected conscious into positive action

I've just repeated the experiment...and it works again. I'm running a 1 wire Tesla style AC rectification it would seem. The power comes out of the collapsing coil into the 1 wire, that goes only through half of the bridge rectifier. It works best at 12V (poor supercap lol) but it may be totally fine for the cap, as it shows as 5.5V on my meter. At 4.5V the effect isn't there, the rotor stops in about 5 rotations. At voltages above, the removal of power from the wall see's the circuit settle into the cap value output of 5.5V and sit there for that long while.
Currently working on removing the 'kick', such that it doesn't have to fight at 1 point of the rotation.
Romero said each coil and magnet had to be tuned. I see what he means completely, you have to change the configuration to remove the cogging and noise of magnetic interactions, on a magnet by magnet basis, while all the while the others interact to the new position.

YouTube - Pulse Motor - 10 minute run - no power in

[marxist]

photos of excess

Phantastic effect, you show in your video, slider.

Regarding the biasing magnets in romeroUK's setup:
Attached is a screen shot of plengo's video, to which Lidmotor linked in his last post.
Plengo's video to me proves the two effects of the biasing magnets:
1) reduction of cogging
2) creation of excess energy

The screen-shot is from 9:37 into the video. It shows the voltage on the generator coil when the biasing magnet is in place oriented in opposition to the rotor magnet.
With the biasing magnet aligned like that, cogging is reduced and when scoped under load the AC-voltage-wave in not symmetrical any more. It now extends further down from the zero-line (valley deeper than height of mountain). So I conclude that:
the coil outputs more power while the rotor-magnet approaches, as compared to when the rotor-magnet recedes. The difference in height of the two half-waves depicts the excess energy that is created during approach due to the presence of the biasing magnet.

edit to add:
Please also note, that on the scope shot RomeroUK had provided and posted on overunity, the trace is not symmetrical to the zero-line. Just as the the trace of plengo's pickup coil.
You can find romeroUK's scope shot here:
http://freeenergylt.narod2.ru/muller_dynamo/Out_AC1.jpg

edit 2: In the meantime also whoopy has posted a scope shot of coils under load:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?a...ch=52958;image
And the same effect is visible: under load mountains higher than valleys

Now imagine rectifying such a wave. The rectification of such an asymmetrical wave will give a higher peak voltage than a rectified symmetrical voltage-wave.

[toranarod]

the coil turns

I keep going over this because something is not right.
I have been going over the wire figure's We are all wondering about the Dia of the wire and keep coming up with the wrong answer.
the other point is we also cannot figure out why the voltage is low if we go by his coil specifications.
I have been going over the figures time and time again. What if its the turns are wrong.
The coil dimension and the voltage out and the wire used would imply the turns are wrong. I calculate the tunes to be around the 700 mark to fill the coils how they look in the photo's if he used 7 X .125.
He said his coil had 6 mm core you can see in the photo they are lager than the
magnets that are 20mm. he said the width of the coils was 10mm + 5 for the ferrite rod to be inserted into the plastic base it looks to be a coil of 26 X 10 mm
this also explains the voltage on the DMM in the Video.

[elias]

Hi friends,

After I was left with an exploded rotor, I thought to give myself a bit time until I start a full scale Muller replication. Now I am so glad that there has been really good developments in this area.

Muller's generator is definitely an answer to our problem as I concluded from the numerous experiments I did with my device.

I hope to be able to start a replication in the coming weeks.

Good luck to all!
Elias

[nvisser]

My early test so far with one of Romerouk coils is 4v 0/P thats the best I can get out of it. Two in series maybe 8. this why he said a DC to DC converter is a must. I think?

My 18 coils arrive today

Hi Toranrod.
What resistance do you measure on a single coil.
Somebody mentioned that Romerouk's coil resistance was measured at around 1.7 to 2 Ohms per coil.
Vissie

[plengo]

I keep going over this because something is not right.
I have been going over the wire figure's We are all wondering about the Dia of the wire and keep coming up with the wrong answer.
the other point is we also cannot figure out why the voltage is low if we go by his coil specifications.
I have been going over the figures time and time again. What if its the turns are wrong.
The coil dimension and the voltage out and the wire used would imply the turns are wrong. I calculate the tunes to be around the 700 mark to fill the coils how they look in the photo's if he used 7 X .125.
He said his coil had 6 mm core you can see in the photo they are lager than the
magnets that are 20mm. he said the width of the coils was 10mm + 5 for the ferrite rod to be inserted into the plastic base it looks to be a coil of 26 X 10 mm
this also explains the voltage on the DMM in the Video.

Hey Tornarod, may be the biasing is the key for making such small coil produce more voltage. You could do a test on your setup and try different manets as biasing and see for yourself.

Fausto.

[toranarod]

Hi Toranrod.
What resistance do you measure on a single coil.
Somebody mentioned that Romerouk's coil resistance was measured at around 1.7 to 2 Ohms per coil.
Vissie

1.3 to 1.5 ohms
I am not finished with he coils more test before i commit to 18 of them

[Lidmotor]

The BIG problem----The generator coils

@Toranarod & All
You are right. The problem that I am seeing is in the generator coils. I worked with them today and something just doesn't add up. In Romero's device EACH pair of generator coils produced at least the same amount of voltage as the source voltage. When they were all paralleled the total amperage was enough to exceed the input. That seems to be extremely hard to do based on what I am seeing on my testing unit.
I did get the Hall circuit working yesterday and it made a great improvement in the "motor" part of the device. I played with the "generator" part today trying out a ferrite core in one coil and biasing it with a neo. It is very interesting work but----she ain't gonna run herself ----ever I'm afraid.


YouTube - Muller Dynamo with electronic circuit.ASF

Lidmotor

[toranarod]

@Toranarod & All
You are right. The problem that I am seeing is in the generator coils. I worked with them today and something just doesn't add up. In Romero's device EACH pair of generator coils produced at least the same amount of voltage as the source voltage. When they were all paralleled the total amperage was enough to exceed the input. That seems to be extremely hard to do based on what I am seeing on my testing unit.
I did get the Hall circuit working yesterday and it made a great improvement in the "motor" part of the device. I played with the "generator" part today trying out a ferrite core in one coil and biasing it with a neo. It is very interesting work but----she ain't gonna run herself ----ever I'm afraid.


YouTube - Muller Dynamo with electronic circuit.ASF



Lidmotor

Thank you for your confirmation. Now I know what I will do?
My coils will have all the wire specs he had but they will have 900 turns.

will test this and let every body know.
he made mistakes with other measurements so we will see?

cheers

[plengo]

@Toranarod & All
You are right. The problem that I am seeing is in the generator coils. I worked with them today and something just doesn't add up. In Romero's device EACH pair of generator coils produced at least the same amount of voltage as the source voltage. When they were all paralleled the total amperage was enough to exceed the input. That seems to be extremely hard to do based on what I am seeing on my testing unit.
I did get the Hall circuit working yesterday and it made a great improvement in the "motor" part of the device. I played with the "generator" part today trying out a ferrite core in one coil and biasing it with a neo. It is very interesting work but----she ain't gonna run herself ----ever I'm afraid.


YouTube - Muller Dynamo with electronic circuit.ASF

Lidmotor

Great video Lid, as the usual.

Two things Romero said were very important for his design, rotor size and magnets size. If you look he was using 250mm diameter rotor while you are using a CD around 120mm. He was also using 3/8" x 1" magnets (give it or take), I don't know the size you are using but I assume much smaller.

He also said to make everything proportionally bigger.

Now, you are using a coil that seems to be the size Romero is using but the rotor and magnets are not, so I would think you will not see the same voltage generation at all.

Interesting to see that you were able to almost double the voltage by having the biasing magnet in the handed coil. Pretty cool.

Fausto.

[toranarod]

Great video Lid, as the usual.

Two things Romero said were very important for his design, rotor size and magnets size. If you look he was using 250mm diameter rotor while you are using a CD around 120mm. He was also using 3/8" x 1" magnets (give it or take), I don't know the size you are using but I assume much smaller.

He also said to make everything proportionally bigger.

Now, you are using a coil that seems to be the size Romero is using but the rotor and magnets are not, so I would think you will not see the same voltage generation at all.

Interesting to see that you were able to almost double the voltage by having the biasing magnet in the handed coil. Pretty cool.



Fausto.

I am using the same Magnets he is and if you take into account the coil size and wire dimensions there are twice the turns on is coils than stated.
look at the space on his Bobbins using 0.125 x 7 strand wire you can go to 700 turns.
Anyway its worth a try Because 300 is not enough.
This increases resistance But they generate in sequence and are in parallel.