Muller generator replication by Romerouk

[toranarod]

bobbins

I have been very concerned about the out of the coils.
there has been some conjecture about there design.
this as held up my replica almost a week while i tried and tested coils and wire

I think we need to put the device in some sort of order not just put it together and hope for the best.
every body is working hard on this and i have listened to what you have all posted.

In the photo below you can see his rotor and my rotor and a cotton bobbin and the bobbins I had made in relation to the rotor.

if the wire is correct the turns are not going on a sewing machine bobbin
If the output of his coils are 12 volts this has created some concerns.

[toranarod]

recovery diodes

Romero pop in for a post. very surprised.

Best regards to all,
RomeroUK

PS: don't wast time with that LED, it is powered back from the driving coils via the recovery diodes too simple to be seen and understood...

Muller Dynamo

the interesting thing now there seems to be a recovery diode
so I am going with retuning the coil charge back to the source.
I was going to do this anyway because it increases motor output.
now its confirmed it adds a bit more to the puzzel
I will be using attraction pulse drive. this also helps with more horse power
with out more power consumption.

[quantumuppercut]

Hello everyone,

I did some research yesterday about Litz wire. There seems to be some magic in them. Here is a site to the construction of the Litz.

Custom cables, litz wire, flat braided wire, copper magnet wire, enameled magnet wire, magnet wire, and magnet wire manufacturer New England Wire Technologies

I've noticed one thing and I think it's fascinating is that the wire is in twisted fashion (multi-strand helix). This twisting seems to add inductance. If so, the Inductance/length is greater than a straight wire. It means for the same coil, Litz yields more self inductance than single strand. This would explains why the voltage output is much greater. It is also a plus for drive coil because L/R is greater, which allows for shorter pulse.

PS: type 3 should be the best Litz.

QU

[toranarod]

Hello everyone,

I did some research yesterday about Litz wire. There seems to be some magic in them. Here is a site to the construction of the Litz.

Custom cables, litz wire, flat braided wire, copper magnet wire, enameled magnet wire, magnet wire, and magnet wire manufacturer New England Wire Technologies

I've noticed one thing and I think it's fascinating is that the wire is in twisted fashion (multi-strand helix). This twisting seems to add inductance. If so, the Inductance/length is greater than a straight wire. It means for the same coil, Litz yields more self inductance than single strand. This would explains why the voltage output is much greater. It is also a plus for drive coil because L/R is greater, which allows for shorter pulse.


PS: type 3 should be the best Litz.

QU

This is another valid point he used multi strand wire but not pure Litz wire
have a look at his coils.

[minoly]

asymmetry

Romero used a lot of asymmetry in his design. look at the variation in strength of magnets verses the scope shot, look at the variation in the material the magnets are made from - JB talks about this in the GT thread. I only saw it mentioned once or twice at OU and once here - could be more - close approaching 100 pages Aahg! Some might review JB's Magnetic Gates & Discovering Magnetism DVD's with this frame of reference.

I don't see anything too abnormal about the switching of the drive/attraction coils. Although Romero could have been trying to create some asymmetry there as well, I can't tell from the pictures what the duty is on the top hall.

Remember though, he said you could use whatever you want to spin it. He just reiterated not to think about that part but to be more concerned about the dynamo and how to make it "efficient".

Patrick

[redrichie]

Thats what I was thinking Minoly. Assymetry. Thats why I feel as though this design and JB GT3 and ED generator are semi-related, and why I mentioned it over there. I dont think most of those guys read the thread here. Some have, and most of them are members of both places.
As far as the top hall it seems to go straight through the center of large neo. Might even be more efficient if he used dwell angles like John showed us. Same output. Lower consumption.
Something else Ive been watching in the vids. Not all the cores are biased. So there is just attraction there. If you look at the video by neogen (i think) it shows an animation of the magnets passing through the coils. It is precessional. Kinda like a group of magnets say 3-4 in series are going around in "interaction" with the biased coils, generating. the other side is being pulled into the unbiased ferrite, cancelling the opposing forces from the generating side. then as the rotor turns the precession continues like phases of the moon. Someone mentioned this is similar to the SMOT. I can see that. But a SMOT that can Lenzlessly push past that sticking from the energy it generates.

[wings]

Hello everyone,

I did some research yesterday about Litz wire. There seems to be some magic in them. Here is a site to the construction of the Litz.

Custom cables, litz wire, flat braided wire, copper magnet wire, enameled magnet wire, magnet wire, and magnet wire manufacturer New England Wire Technologies

I've noticed one thing and I think it's fascinating is that the wire is in twisted fashion (multi-strand helix). This twisting seems to add inductance. If so, the Inductance/length is greater than a straight wire. It means for the same coil, Litz yields more self inductance than single strand. This would explains why the voltage output is much greater. It is also a plus for drive coil because L/R is greater, which allows for shorter pulse.

PS: type 3 should be the best Litz.

QU

Litz wires :

It's the fact that parallel conductors have a mutual inductance, so a changing current in one conductor induces a voltage in the other conductor.

http://lists.contesting.com/_towerta...3/msg00282.htm

higher frequency more effect

[ren]

Romero used a lot of asymmetry in his design. look at the variation in strength of magnets verses the scope shot, look at the variation in the material the magnets are made from - JB talks about this in the GT thread. I only saw it mentioned once or twice at OU and once here - could be more - close approaching 100 pages Aahg! Some might review JB's Magnetic Gates & Discovering Magnetism DVD's with this frame of reference.

I don't see anything too abnormal about the switching of the drive/attraction coils. Although Romero could have been trying to create some asymmetry there as well, I can't tell from the pictures what the duty is on the top hall.

Remember though, he said you could use whatever you want to spin it. He just reiterated not to think about that part but to be more concerned about the dynamo and how to make it "efficient".

Patrick

Spot on Patrick. I already have a "motor" to drive this (with recovery) 2000rpm under 12 watts, 4000rpm under 24 watts. Rod and others are right, it will take some work figuring out optimal wire lengths for given magnets and speed at which the rotor is driven, but I reckon the adjustments on the generator half will be where the real meat is found, the drive circuit is simply a means to create a rotating field, abiet, as cheaply as possible.
Ill post some pics soon.

Ren

[plengo]

Ok, this will not likely be a definitive answer, but i am trying to help where i can. after following this post, i decided to try and put a biasing magnet on the end of the bifiler coil that drives the SSG. I noticed that one way made the motor get much louder, and the other nearly cancelled all the noise from it. just out of curiosity after i read your post, i tried to space the magnet from the core with non magnetic washers. as you get closer, there is a difference in sound, though the biggest difference by far was when there is only one washer between the core/magnet, or if the magnet is directly on the core. i know this is not the same thing, but at least its something i can throw in
I am putting together a quickie generator coil to play with and see if i can get any results that will make a difference on a meter.
helping where i can
N8

quick note to add. I put together a very quick generator coil out of a bifiler coil i had around. I wired the two coils together in series to make one coil and packed the core with some iron nails as tightly as i could. I placed this near the running SSG rotor and hooked it to a meter. i measured the voltage output with no magnet, and with a magnet attached to the end in both orientations. I noticed that the closer i got to the core of the coil with the magnet the voltage would slightly start to drop, but as the magnet actually touched the core, it would have a sharp drop. with no magnet attached i was getting 1.5-1.8V depending on the distance to the rotor, with the magnet very near but not touching it would hang around the mid 1.4V range, and when i let the magnet sit on the core directly it would drop to about 1.2V output. it was a pretty simple bare-bones test, but hopefully it will add some useful information for the people doing the real work!

another quick test, this one out of pure curiosity...
in my previous test, i was using neo mags, i do have some ceramic magnets of the same size, so i tried them. i put my coil a bit closer to the rotor and fixed it so it wouldn't move at all, then measured the output voltage. i put the ceramic magnets on the core and again the voltage dropped when it was in direct contact, but not when it was very close. with the ceramic magnets I also saw a much smaller drop in voltage. with the coil positioned to give me 3V flat output, it would drop to about 2.98V with the magnets directly on the core, but there was no drop when they were close. now with the ceramic used as a biasing magnet, i also didn't notice the same reduction in noise as i did with the neos (the reason seems obvious ) so the results were consistent with different magnets and different outputs. no matter what i tried, there was a slight output voltage drop when there was direct contact with the core.

hope all this helps
N8

thank you for the test. It is very valuable. Is your coil of ticker wires? Would you have another coil around with much smaller diameter closed to the one on my video? May be from a relay?

I also noticed that same results with classical Bedini coils but not with those very high guage wire coils.

Fausto.

[Neight]

thank you for the test. It is very valuable. Is your coil of ticker wires? Would you have another coil around with much smaller diameter closed to the one on my video? May be from a relay?

I also noticed that same results with classical Bedini coils but not with those very high guage wire coils.

Fausto.

lol, I seem to be in a classic kitchen situation right now, I have cereal but no milk, peanut butter and jelly, but no bread...
I have some sewing machine bobbins i could wind a coil with, and I have plenty of 30 gauge magnet wire I could use, but I am coming up short on something to use for a core. I have one piece of ferrite that i saved from some electronics i took apart, but it is much too big to fit in the bobbin core, I am searching my garage now for anything that would work for a core, and if i find something useful I will perform the tests again!

[redrichie]

I got a chance to go to GOODWILL today. Talked to manager and he let me go the warehouse and sort through the computer power supplies they were not going to sell. NOT ALL POWER SUPPLIES have the ferrite rod inductor. In fact it seems only the older ones do. Out of 100 or so PS I got 5 that I could see a ferrite inductor in them. Not one of them had a 6mm rod. Only 4mmx12mm. The ferrite choke inductor rod I got from RS is larger. Cant see how to wrap any amount of a useable core on that small of a rod. Unless the ferrite is just that much better of a core than anything else and it doesnt take such a large cross section to generate.

I have been in pm with a user at OU. He has a theory that may cause a lot of people a whole lot of grief. If anyone has sourced a good place for a core rod with high saturation and low conductivity please post it. In the market

[gmeat]

lol, I seem to be in a classic kitchen situation right now, I have cereal but no milk, peanut butter and jelly, but no bread...
I have some sewing machine bobbins i could wind a coil with, and I have plenty of 30 gauge magnet wire I could use, but I am coming up short on something to use for a core. I have one piece of ferrite that i saved from some electronics i took apart, but it is much too big to fit in the bobbin core, I am searching my garage now for anything that would work for a core, and if i find something useful I will perform the tests again!

0000 grade fine Steel wool from Home Depot works pretty dang good for a core material for less than $4.00 a bag mixed in some epoxy and you'll be good to go.


-Gary

[SkyWatcher]

Hi folks, I 'm still contemplating what to wind the rest of my coils with.
Though in the mean time I was thinking about something to trigger the drive coils besides my reed switch or hall switch.
And I remembered the circuit i drew based on Bedinis school girl circuit, though with mine I use a separate trigger air coil.
Using a darlington transitor pair, though a single transistor works also, it works very well.
I will be using a separate neo magnet timing rotor, for easier adjusting, though one can use the main rotor also.
Here is the cad pic of circuit.


Uploaded with ImageShack.us
peace love light
tyson

[SkyWatcher]

Hi folks, just to add, at 12 volts input this separate coil trigger method doubled or more my rpm at same input amps and at 24 volts, it is way too fast.
Of course still only have the one coil/core for now.
Now I have to figure a way to mount a couple of these trigger air coils, so I can adjust them a bit.
peace love light
tyson

[toranarod]

the wire has arrived

All parts are in

the wire and the bridge rectifiers arrived today.

I have some wave form diagrams I will post later.

Has anybody else taken current measurements of the drive coils?
I would be very interested if you would share any insight.



Thank you ASH for your support