Muller generator replication by Romerouk

[gravityblock]

Gb
I would say kinda.
Each Pole has a certain spin also, so it can make a different, even when not a to big one. But you are right, mainly it is the Magnetic Field, what is induced into the Coil, and what creates a move inside. But i think too, that the Coils should only be wound in the same Way at each side of the Stator.

You can wind a coil either CW or CCW and there is no difference. Both coils will have a CW face and a CCW face. Both coils can then be positioned in the same way at each side of the Stator where both coils are showing the same face, regardless if it was originally wound CW or CCW.

[Edit:] I now see what you're saying. I agree it shouldn't have a noticeable effect. No two coils will be exactly the same. One coil may be wound slightly tighter than the other coil, or one coil may have a slightly longer length of wire, resistance, inductance, parasitic capacitance, etc. The difference, if any, will be much less than these other factors. Even though I think this isn't an issue, I do thank you for pointing this out. There's nothing wrong with being consistent. However, I wouldn't unwind/rewind the coils on the basis that the "starting turns" may be on opposite ends relative to a particular face on the coils.

GB

[Lidmotor]

Replication test results

@All
Thank you to everybody who is building one of these and reporting in. It really helps.
I finally got my Litz wire and have been doing some testing. I have NOT been happy with the results so far. Plain old magnet wire seems to work better. Perhaps when everything is put together on a full scale model the performance is better with the Litz coils. On my small testing unit I didn't see any advantage at all.

Lidmotor

[FRC]

Lidmotor

Thanks for the update on the Litz coils. With your two Jule thief circuits together, Do you think two fuji circuits put together in this manner would also work ?

FRC

[Joit]

Video about seeing, when the Coil fires with a Strobe light.
To show, why you can adjust with a Resistor or Potentiometer the Timing

[redrichie]

there is a difference in the physical nature of a coil that is wound with a right or left hand twist. It is not the same as flipping the coil over. Though once energized It does have a north/south opposites. I have wound all my top stators with a right hand twist. and my bottom with a left hand twist. It was something I was suspecting when I first started thinking of the device. Especially after I tried to digest Walter Russell. If you havent read them I can send you the pdf's I found. He depicts 2 spiral coils but in opposite rotation from one another.
Also I have a feeling that the periphery magnets are playing a role in this somehow. Again a little bit from what ive read in Russell but also John B, HJ, and others. Im assuming in Romeros device the top of the rotor is a southpole magnet up. Because it takes a south to trigger the hall. The same as the small ones on the edge, south out for the hall. Seems it would make a North magnetic pole superhighway toward the top of the rotor on the outer edge of the rotor. The North pole magnets are wanting to run to the south up from the bottom of the rotor. The small magnet gives them a place to concentrate toward and then the larger south attracts them in from there. The same with the south wanting to run to the north. But this time the small magnets inner north pole is channeling all those magnets. An asymmetrical wide arcing North concentrated toward the periphery of the disk, and a tight clear south right to the inside of that. Sort of like the little magnet causes a flux distortion loop of some sorts. (if thats even realistic phrase). Add on top of that the stator's magnet's magnetic field and some crazy assemetrical fields are created in there.
If hes running in attraction then the stator magnets are in repulsion as we've already established. So the bottom of the rotors North pole magnets will be hauling @$$ up through the little loop up to the stator magnets. and the same in opposite for the bottom. So like ED and JB said, you want to concentrate and move those poles in the proper channels and you will have a perpetual runner. The coils are connected, so become one in a sense. They are each given a concentrated asymmetrical form of a north or south. then reconnected after the FWBR.
at least it is like that in my own little weird world. One more coil to go and I can start mounting.

[gravityblock]

I'm sorry I even tried to answer a question, but I'll try again. Here's the question. When you wind your coils do you wind CW? You can wind CW or CCW, but it may be best to stay consistent with whatever you choose. Also, you can do as redrichie and have the top coils wound with a right hand twist and the bottom coils with a left hand twist. I wouldn't lose any sleep in regards to winding CW or CCW if you're consistent.



GB

[gravityblock]

Hall-Effect IC

Im assuming in Romeros device the top of the rotor is a southpole magnet up. Because it takes a south to trigger the hall. The same as the small ones on the edge, south out for the hall.

That's not entirely correct. There are four general categories of Hall-effect IC devices that provide a digital output: unipolar switches (triggered by south pole), bipolar switches (triggered by closely spaced alternating north and south poles), omnipolar switches (triggered by either a strong south pole or a strong north pole), and latches (similar to bipolar switches, but it remembers it's state even after the magnetic field is removed).

GB

[toranarod]

I have a question Rod or anybody who might know;
When you wind your coils do you wind CW? Also, what is their polarity pole - wise. If rotor magnets have N poles up than upper coils are N towards them. So the end of coil is facing magnet. What about the lower deck of coils. Are they "flipped" over to repel S poles when energized? I'm thinking of energized coil which resembles a magnet, with both poles and Bloch Wall which can be adjust with extra magnet at the core end.

Thanks
Vtech

Looks like you have been helped sounds like good advice I must try that my self.

the other problem we need to address is how did Romerouk make the motor run faster under load.

this is one of his videos before he built the Muller Motor.

YouTube - ‪RomeroUK Video Pre-Muller release‬‏

[toranarod]

That's not entirely correct. There are four general categories of Hall-effect IC devices that provide a digital output: unipolar switches (triggered by south pole), bipolar switches (triggered by closely spaced alternating north and south poles), omnipolar switches (triggered by either a strong south pole or a strong north pole), and latches (similar to bipolar switches, but it remembers it's state even after the magnetic field is removed).

GB

have a look at this device. I brought a few of them I have not tried them.

[gravityblock]

Asymmetry

The coils are connected, so become one in a sense. They are each given a concentrated asymmetrical form of a north or south.

Ed is probably correct about there being two currents running against each other. Here's a video showing this possibility. We must ask ourselves if there is an appearance of an asymmetrical form of a north or south pole, How and Why. Let's assume there is an appearance of an asymmetry. Could it be due to the earth's magnetic field anomaly, which is location dependent. The earth has a vertical and horizontal component to it. Could the horizontal component be slightly greater or less according to location.

What if one pole of a magnet is made up of a forward-time flow of virtual photons, while the other pole is made up of a reverse-time flow of virtual photons, then there may appear to be an asymmetry between the north and south poles because our instruments are only moving in one direction of forward-time. As you can see, in this case (assuming of course it may be correct), there is no real asymmetry between the north or south poles, and the appearance is only due to a limitation of our instruments moving in one direction of time. Sean McCarthy has a theory on exploiting this asymmetry by manipulating the "time frames".

Below is a picture showing an alternative model for a magnetic field. A once popular theory on the operating principals of the Adams and Muller generators is based on this magnetic model. Notice how this model has a vortex along with a time-reversed field. Also, notice how the cold field is attracted to ferromagnetic materials, while the hot field is attracted to and feeds off permanent magnets. Could the placement of a magnet on top of the coils help separate the cold and hot fields? This vortex and time-reversed field may be the reason why static electromagnetic fields have momentum. How can something static, where it's not changing in time, have a momentum? How can something massless, such as a photon have a momentum? Why does the hidden momentum always cancels the electromagnetic momentum, in the static case? This post is just a different perspective on things, and it may or may not be correct. I don't know much, but I do know, "we don't know what we think we know". We should question everything, even if it may seem elementary to do so.



GB

[Joit]

If hes running in attraction then the stator magnets are in repulsion as we've already established. So the bottom of the rotors North pole magnets will be hauling @$$ up through the little loop up to the stator magnets. and the same in opposite for the bottom. So like ED and JB said, you want to concentrate and move those poles in the proper channels and you will have a perpetual runner. The coils are connected, so become one in a sense. They are each given a concentrated asymmetrical form of a north or south. then reconnected after the FWBR.
at least it is like that in my own little weird world. One more coil to go and I can start mounting.

Your little weird World? I think sometimes, its the weird little World from the Scientist, where they do claim all, but mostly fail, when they should build any similar to nature

It 'shall' be true, that there is natural formed Field into a Coil when it is wound left or right, and therefor it 'shall' appear N or S on left or right side. But mainly its for me, the North Pole appears at the opposite from the Coil, where you chase Plus through.

But what i have seen, it can has an positive Influence to the Momentum, what the Coil can give, even only, when i see that, when the Coil is tapped at a certain Moment. But i cant say, if it does matter, when you use them as generator Coils. It may has an influnce about the crossing Flux regarding to the Direction from the Wire. But otherwise i think, that you have at this Rotor couple Magents, where each passing at a Coil at an other Moment, so it may dont matter, if the 'better firing Coil is at the first or second half from the Rotor.
With that, Muller, or the Builder from the original Device did may avoide this Problem too.
Btw, did someone lately look at the ferris wheel again, or any other Rotors from JB? count count hint hint.

And sure, a practical Test for that may would be better anyway.
Just, when someone do test it, he may declare which Poles is his 'Northpole' on the Rotor magnets, simple by putting a Magnet on a Wire, to see, wich one points to North.
Because, South attract North.

[Slider2732]

I watched your demo video there Joit and was reminded of my own method for timings, which may be applicable. While not a Muller (cost), own forays into pulse motors have seen me use an LED or neon to determine exact firing points.
Basically, the LED connects to the single coil in this case and when the Hall triggers, the LED comes on. The LED goes out when the Hall swaps magnetic bias and the coil field collapses. The same LED or one temporarily fitted to each coil on the Muller machines, may really help in the tuning stages.

If an old record player is considered, they used to have timing notches marked on the outer walls and you could set the speed of the player using a pulsed light strobe effect, making the notches appear stationary.

Here's a vid I just took of the system I use and I hope it may relate to timings on the Romero replications

YouTube - ‪Magnet to Hall timing method - Pulse motor‬‏

[Joit]

This Video from you gave me a good laugh.
Even when it reminds me to a Magnetic Amplifier

[Slider2732]

We did in fact get struck by lightning, or something did close by. My computer screen turned into random pixels and that was that ! Luckily there's enough junker parts around here to fix such things. That vid showed the loadings importance though, thanks for watching it.

Forgot to point out in the vid above, that the Hall sensor is on the right, the coil on the left. I all but forgot about the Hall's position relative to each magnet while chatting away
Anyway, strobing by these various methods would seem to be a great tool

[minoly]

pulse motor and the LED timing

Ok I have to chime in here. I've seen others as well. here is my lame attempt at a youtube explanation of how to use the LED to check timing. this also shows that the SSG bifiler is an attraction motor.


YouTube - ‪How to Bedini SSG and the LED‬‏

in the vid I fumble around - in the end, I recommend using 1 piece of reflective tape.

You can use an LED to check the timing of the trigger as well as the firing of the power coil w/ this method. the one I show in the vid is the actual firing of the power coil which also allows you to see pulses.

Patrick