Muller generator replication by Romerouk

[minoly]

Hi Pat, at 12 seconds of the video he states if you were watching Saturday evening i had the Muller spinning on its own power, maybe i got that wrong sorry about that .

Ash

Ash, he sure does say that.
I watched the justin.tv episode so I did not think twice when he said it, he probably did not think twice saying it either

Patrick

[Lidmotor]

Muller Dynamo ---Generator coil shorting test

@All
I tried the generator coil shorting idea on my testing setup and got some interesting results. Patrick-- I basically used your shorting circuit with the trigger coil and transistor but simplified it. It worked on my rig but it might not work on someone elses. I could not come to any real conclusions about this coil shorting idea with my test but it did improve the generator output performance. The way that I did it there was a slight increase in amp draw and a slowing of the rotor ---but the output gain seemed worth it. I liked what I saw.
Here is the video of the test:

YouTube - ‪Muller Dynamo-- generator coil shorting test.ASF‬‏

Cheers,

Lidmotor

[toranarod]

@All
I tried the generator coil shorting idea on my testing setup and got some interesting results. Patrick-- I basically used your shorting circuit with the trigger coil and transistor but simplified it. It worked on my rig but it might not work on someone elses. I could not come to any real conclusions about this coil shorting idea with my test but it did improve the generator output performance. The way that I did it there was a slight increase in amp draw and a slowing of the rotor ---but the output gain seemed worth it. I liked what I saw.
Here is the video of the test:

YouTube - ‪Muller Dynamo-- generator coil shorting test.ASF‬‏

Cheers,

Lidmotor

the coil shorting process appeases to be a way of converting voltage to current.
the circuit below was able to draw 900 m Amps but at a very low voltage
3.9 volts

Do the math on this and you end up back where you stated. the only positive gain is it does not load the coils.

after the bridge rectifier the hi voltage collected into a capacitor could be used to drive the motor. or at least off set the current used to run the device. it does go some way to over unity. because there is very little load on the motor.

[Lidmotor]

Coil shorting--energy conversion??

@Rod
I kinda came to the same conclusion that the energy wasn't increased---just converted. That is really not so bad if you can control it and use it your advantage to do something. The question is-- does this have ANY bearing of the Romero Muller "situation".
I am starting to think that nobody is going to just "tune" their Romero Muller replication to produce twice the energy out that is put in. This WAS either a tremendous hoax or we are missing something major. With all the brillant minds working on this project for over a month now, someone should have seen some magic.
The relativly simple machine that Romero built used a very uncomplicated triggering and energy recovery circuit. The magnet and coil arrangement, though interesting, doesn't appear to be where the secret lies either. Someone with a true replication would have already reported on that by now. We are missing something big. Either how the dynamic of the entire device setup some freak event----- or how Romero cleverly got the extra power into his machine.

Lidmotor

[equityboost]

@Lid, I think it's still too soon to tell. Romero said it took him a month to tune it to get what he demonstrated. I don't think any replicator has yet spent that kind of time on tuning. As he said there are a lot of variables involved. Sure would help if the critical ones were understood.

[Zooty]

Has anyone thought of using a full sequential bipolar circuit on the drive coils? They would need to be trifillar wound but most of the juice used would end up back in the primary dropping the input by around 80% Dadhav's window motor is running at between 200 and 500 MICRO amps on a 2.7v supercap. I see people trying to increase the generator output but dropping the drive input is just as important. If the output voltage is lower than the input voltage but the input current is very very low then a simple voltage step up on the output could work as long as the current is still above the input current. This is all speculation of course but something to think about.

[minoly]

Has anyone thought of using a full sequential bipolar circuit on the drive coils? They would need to be trifillar wound but most of the juice used would end up back in the primary dropping the input by around 80% Dadhav's window motor is running at between 200 and 500 MICRO amps on a 2.7v supercap. I see people trying to increase the generator output but dropping the drive input is just as important. If the output voltage is lower than the input voltage but the input current is very very low then a simple voltage step up on the output could work as long as the current is still above the input current. This is all speculation of course but something to think about.

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post140836

He has it lower than that now as do we.

good idea.
I wonder though, a few have implied Romero's drive ckt could be being used to simultaneously help w/ coil shorting.....?
we are applying Bolt's amplified short to a two coil Bedini buckboost Kromrey effect, nice results. we are driving the wheel like Ren, using the SSG. any loss in rpm means lower ampdraw and better charging right
self running generator for on demand,
self running SSG for storage
will post more when we have more...

Patrick

[minoly]

@All
I tried the generator coil shorting idea on my testing setup and got some interesting results. Patrick-- I basically used your shorting circuit with the trigger coil and transistor but simplified it. It worked on my rig but it might not work on someone elses. I could not come to any real conclusions about this coil shorting idea with my test but it did improve the generator output performance. The way that I did it there was a slight increase in amp draw and a slowing of the rotor ---but the output gain seemed worth it. I liked what I saw.
Here is the video of the test:

YouTube - ‪Muller Dynamo-- generator coil shorting test.ASF‬‏

Cheers,

Lidmotor

That Lenz is a wild beast we gotta put that baby in a cage and tame it.
you got it right w/ your trigger observation, you need to be able to pinpoint that trigger, your trigger coil is huge and has a long "on" time. if you want to stick w/ the air coil, turn it on its side, that will help a bit. you can very the signal to the base Bedini style. love your builds Lid, they are quick and pretty at the same time :-)


anyone tried Rod's "cap short"?
been trying to use those diodes to create a coil short, it works across the AC side and the rotor spins up - so will an LED by the way, however, I can get no energy out of the pick up coil this way.


Patrick

[Steve220]

Just thinking

May be the secret is in the way the rotor is driven with the drive coils. Could the way the drive coils are set up "condition" the rotor magnets for the generator coils?
What I am saying is may be the pulse to the drive magnets of the rotor is timed so that when passing the generator coils at the right speed, time, distance the magnetic field of the rotor magnets are "conditioned" by the drive coils and now have to switch over from being a drive magnet to being a "generator" magnet.

May be at the right time and speed, during the switch from a drive magnet to a generator magnet, Lenz law gets a little confused and don't fully come into play.
The reason I say this is, why use a drive coil on the same rotor magnets used for the generator coils as shown in the videos?
Why not just attach a motor to the shaft to turn the rotor, but that is not how it was done. The drive coils were located in a special position in relation to the generator coils.
May be for a special reason too.

[Lidmotor]

A interrlated "community" of coils and magnets?

May be the secret is in the way the rotor is driven with the drive coils. Could the way the drive coils are set up "condition" the rotor magnets for the generator coils?
What I am saying is may be the pulse to the drive magnets of the rotor is timed so that when passing the generator coils at the right speed, time, distance the magnetic field of the rotor magnets are "conditioned" by the drive coils and now have to switch over from being a drive magnet to being a "generator" magnet.

May be at the right time and speed, during the switch from a drive magnet to a generator magnet, Lenz law gets a little confused and don't fully come into play.
The reason I say this is, why use a drive coil on the same rotor magnets used for the generator coils as shown in the videos?
Why not just attach a motor to the shaft to turn the rotor, but that is not how it was done. The drive coils were located in a special position in relation to the generator coils.
May be for a special reason too.

Steve ---I have thought allot about that and on my setup there IS a relationship berween what is happening with the driver and the generator parts. They interrelate like a "community" ---each one doing its job for the good of all. At least on my testing unit changing something on one effects all the others. Maybe that is why Romero said that this thing is very hard to tune right. There are so many variables.

Patrick---I wonder what the "Wild Beast Lenz" looks like? Does a Lenz have spots or stripes? What do you feed a wild Lenz? I know what it likes to eat----joules of energy. Lots and lots of joules.


Lidmotor

[oldkiss111]

thumps up for your article, great post...

[Steve220]

Noise

I think he said that it ran 3 1/2 hours by its self, but had to shut it off because the neighbors complained about the noise the device was making.
It was not going very fast, but did seem to make quite a bit of noise.

The noise to me would seem to be a clue. A lot of odd timed magnetic field switching going on, not a nice smooth generator sound, more of a jumble of things going on.
I think he did say it took a month of messing around with it to make it work as shown.
May be he found a combination of drive coil pulses and generator pickup coils at special times, distance, speed that suddenly started to work.
He did talk about how the distance from the rotor to the coils was important and was adjusted many many times to finally get best results.

I am starting to think that there is a internal magnetic connection between the drive coils, rotor magnets, generator coils at the proper speed, spacing, timing distance that can jumper out some or all of Lenz law.

Both the drive coils and generator coils were in a fixed position, but only the drive coils were pulsed at a time determined by the rotor position.
The timing of the drive coils in relation to the generator coils seems to be important.

Just the rotor spun up by an external drive motor and using generator coils only, I don't think will work.

[toranarod]

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post140836

He has it lower than that now as do we.

good idea.
I wonder though, a few have implied Romero's drive ckt could be being used to simultaneously help w/ coil shorting.....?
we are applying Bolt's amplified short to a two coil Bedini buckboost Kromrey effect, nice results. we are driving the wheel like Ren, using the SSG. any loss in rpm means lower ampdraw and better charging right
self running generator for on demand,
self running SSG for storage
will post more when we have more...

Patrick

Hello minoly

I have made a video you will now understand why I don't make to many
Similar to Romero’s motor and the knocking noise that he claims was disturbing the neighbours, you will notice in my video the coil’s shorting process appears to create a thumping noise in the motor. The thumping noise changes in pitch because of the shorting process, but the RPM does not change. Please see my YouTube Video below


YouTube - ‪RomeroUK Replication‬‏
cheers

[LaserSaber]

Quick update.

Video: YouTube - ‪RomeroUK Muller generator replication part 2‬‏

[ewizard]

Quick update.

Video: YouTube - ‪RomeroUK Muller generator replication part 2‬‏

Nice work again LS! When you said you reversed the coil did you just reverse the wires to the top coil or did you physically flip it over? There was a bit of contradictory discussion on another forum about which way works.