Muller generator replication by Romerouk

[hadcat]

Here is another Mile Marker video from one of the members of the OU forum...Looking good.

YouTube - ‪plengo's Channel‬‏

[Lidmotor]

Lidmotor, you have some killer Hertz and killer Lenz going on there
Also liked the Mohican hair style no load waveform.

If I may ask a JT related question. I tried a replication (twice) with JT circuits and the rotor wouldn't run. They were on a standard pulse motor type circuit, rather than 1 up 1 down coils. The LED's of the JT's would flash as a magnet approached and yet there was no coil effect on the magnets. Tuned around with variable pots, I could get a lower and audible singing out of the coils, but no rotor movement. Coils were 800 winds bifilar with center taps, on ferrite cores.
Do the coils have to be Muller orientated ?

There was really only one reason that I am using a JT circuit here----it works on low voltage. If I could run this with a Hall at .5 volts I would do it that way. I need to keep my "testing unit" at low speed and quiet and that is kinda why I am doing it this way. A bunch of us found out that you could take a Joule Thief circuit and use it to run a small pulse motor some time ago. It is not a great way to do it but it works. Basically the base pot resistance is the secret. You have to get the JT frequency to sync with the triggering of the magnet and coil arrangement. It is two frequencies working together. I have used this JT method on a number of different pulse motor arrangements. It doesn't have to be a Muller arrangement. I like the fact that the circuit runs and lights an LED whether or not the rotor is spinning.
If you are having trouble try switching the four coil wires around. I use a small AM radio to hear when the firing is happening.
If you are using 3 volts and up just use the Hall sensor or a Bedini SSG circuit.

Cheers,

Lidmotor

[Slider2732]

Thanks very much for the info
Thoughts are of a solar powered pulse motor, with experiments showing the ability to run a JT from the lamp on my desk here. Getting a Muller type to accept stray energies from wherever and never needing a conventional power source, even if it won't run totally on its own. Also the possibility of a voltage doubler for the small needs and using a TV remotes I/R LED to power..similar to one of your recent vids.
All the tricks we're learning about are useful all over the place !

[elias]

Hello Jolt, Lidmotor.

Thanks for the support. this is hard work and there is very little reward.

over at free energy there is another video by keykhin.

YouTube - ‪Regenerative acceleration under load‬‏

similar work.

I have the same concerns with my motor the noise keeps my wife awake.
so i try to do most of my work when the is only me at home.
great build Lidmotor

good luck

Hi Rod

Hope i could rebuild my unit to demonstrate newer principles in the coming days, but I am sure that you will make it, it can be done and will be done.

Please do this experiment:
First Run your motor at about less than 1000 RPM or even much less.
Measure the RPM drop when connecting one of your generator coils to a lamp.
Measure the RPM drop when shorting one of your generator coils.
Shorting should cause much more drag in the system, because of the higher current drawn.

Secondly, Run your motor higher than about 3000 RPM, or even more.
Measure the RPM drop when connecting one of your generator coils to a lamp.
Measure the RPM drop when shorting one of your generator coils.

In this case you should notice that loading it with a lamp will drag more than shorting it. This is what defies the Lenz Law, and this is the effect that will bring free energy.

If your don't get the results that should be, try experimenting with different RPMs.

This effect is what I have noticed by using ferrite cores, but if you use Iron cores, you will see that if your short the coils acceleration happens in higher speeds. Iron imposes large eddy currents that drag the rotor significantly, so I discourage people from using it.

Edit: I have said this many times, and will say it again, my theory is that the time constant L/R is more when shorting the coils (because of smaller R), and when the speed goes up, the delay becomes significant, and causes less drag (Lenz is left behind). Why Iron Cores make this effect turn to acceleration I don't know but it might be because of lessening the eddy effect as many have proposed. If my theory is correct you can even neutralize the drag after a certain speed. Speeds as of 3000-4000 RPM is enough if you want to extract the energy when the magnet approaches the coil, because the attraction to the core also helps this, and repulsion is a lower force than attraction. Odd even design also aids to this effect, charging capacitors, also is a better idea, rather than loading it directly.

Good Luck.

I am designing new stators, to demonstrate this, I want you guys to build it!
I don't want to be like some who only talk and do nothing.

Elias

[toranarod]

Today’s Research – A cascading technique

What I propose in the circuit below is a cascading technique. Circuit 1 draws its drive power from the original supply and charges its capacitor to a predetermined potential that is capable of a greater potential than the initial startup supply delivered from Circuit 1.
Circuit 2, in course charges another capacitor that then supplies a greater potential to Circuit 3. Circuit 3 in turn powers Circuit 4 and so on down the line.
In the Muller Design we have 9 coil pairs. Because of the inductance of the coils the voltage exponentially rises at each stage. The beautiful thing about this concept is that the motor generator increases RPM because of the collecting load to its capacitor and the voltage increase to the second drive stage.
Collecting the power in the capacitors increases drive torque as well as RPM by means of increased acceleration under load and increased acceleration by greatly cascading the voltage to the supply, circuit by circuit. To date I have tested a 1 – 2 – 3 configuration, and so far it appears to function as described.

We need to keep thinking about alternative Ideas.

[ZeropointEnergy]

agree

That why I do this not for the people that can afford to buy energy for those who cannot.
I am one of those who cannot. I started this research over 6 years ago when I could not pay my electric bill. I was angry and frustrated. I was being priced into poverty so i decided to fight back.

History has alway demonstrated all good Ideas have flourished in the hands of the majority who could least afford it.
Thats why they fear bringing electric cars on to the market. its about what happens when they become second and third had cars and after market
equipment. flourishes in the bottom end of the market. the poor are the majority and the rich are the minority. Thats what they are scared off.

I will share all information on this experiment.
I wish I could help. if when I have a successful motor i will send you my old prototype.

Hey Toranarod,

I agree we have all this technology out there that more of us need
to replicate to either increase awareness and/or power your home
in the process.

I'm sure there is many of us out there replicating these inventions to
help raise people understand what we have lost.
For example, a simple "Crystal Radio" set can obtain enough power
to recieve stations from the air (or power lines ) and when I made
this about 5 years ago I was inspired.
When I showed people this simple design and that it was heavily
ulitized during the war then the profit motive decided that we needed
to pay!!!

This was the realization that we did have electric cars 100 years ago
before the big V8/ oil industry really took off. Now they have finally
resurfaced with the EV1 in 1996 and now the "Tesla Roadster/Sedan".
They did have the EV grey motor in the 70's before my time but all
the information I have obtained on it was it worked but was phased
out.

I have a few projects on but the Muller design will be engineered in the
not to distant future. Clearly, the self runner feature generated from the
stored energy in the coils/capacitors while still obtaining a steady output
has amazing potential.
The portable generator market is the obvious main use but even a low
voltage use like powering a laptop and many others.

Good luck with the project I will keep up with the progress of all and
will add some pics when I have time to engineer a model.

Regards
Zero

[toranarod]

test under load

Hi Rod

Hope i could rebuild my unit to demonstrate newer principles in the coming days, but I am sure that you will make it, it can be done and will be done.

Please do this experiment:
First Run your motor at about less than 1000 RPM or even much less.
Measure the RPM drop when connecting one of your generator coils to a lamp.
Measure the RPM drop when shorting one of your generator coils.
Shorting should cause much more drag in the system, because of the higher current drawn.

Secondly, Run your motor higher than about 3000 RPM, or even more.
Measure the RPM drop when connecting one of your generator coils to a lamp.
Measure the RPM drop when shorting one of your generator coils.

In this case you should notice that loading it with a lamp will drag more than shorting it. This is what defies the Lenz Law, and this is the effect that will bring free energy.

If your don't get the results that should be, try experimenting with different RPMs.

This effect is what I have noticed by using ferrite cores, but if you use Iron cores, you will see that if your short the coils acceleration happens in higher speeds. Iron imposes large eddy currents that drag the rotor significantly, so I discourage people from using it.

Edit: I have said this many times, and will say it again, my theory is that the time constant L/R is more when shorting the coils (because of smaller R), and when the speed goes up, the delay becomes significant, and causes less drag (Lenz is left behind). Why Iron Cores make this effect turn to acceleration I don't know but it might be because of lessening the eddy effect as many have proposed. If my theory is correct you can even neutralize the drag after a certain speed. Speeds as of 3000-4000 RPM is enough if you want to extract the energy when the magnet approaches the coil, because the attraction to the core also helps this, and repulsion is a lower force than attraction. Odd even design also aids to this effect, charging capacitors, also is a better idea, rather than loading it directly.

Good Luck.

I am designing new stators, to demonstrate this, I want you guys to build it!
I don't want to be like some who only talk and do nothing.

Elias

Hi Elias,
Been reading through your post. Sounds feasible and I am eager to dedicate some time to this experiment. I have on my bench ready to go a multi neo magnet and multi iron core coil motor generator that I see will be perfect for this experiment given the specifications you have outlined. I always enjoy doing some research with fellow OU enthusiast. I hope you are able to reconstruct your unit as soon as possible because these are your theories and ideas and no one knows them better than you. I would be more than happy to do a side-by-side test setup.

Good luck with your rebuild, Rod

[toranarod]

Hey Toranarod,

I agree we have all this technology out there that more of us need
to replicate to either increase awareness and/or power your home
in the process.

I'm sure there is many of us out there replicating these inventions to
help raise people understand what we have lost.
For example, a simple "Crystal Radio" set can obtain enough power
to recieve stations from the air (or power lines ) and when I made
this about 5 years ago I was inspired.
When I showed people this simple design and that it was heavily
ulitized during the war then the profit motive decided that we needed
to pay!!!

This was the realization that we did have electric cars 100 years ago
before the big V8/ oil industry really took off. Now they have finally
resurfaced with the EV1 in 1996 and now the "Tesla Roadster/Sedan".
They did have the EV grey motor in the 70's before my time but all
the information I have obtained on it was it worked but was phased
out.

I have a few projects on but the Muller design will be engineered in the
not to distant future. Clearly, the self runner feature generated from the
stored energy in the coils/capacitors while still obtaining a steady output
has amazing potential.
The portable generator market is the obvious main use but even a low
voltage use like powering a laptop and many others.

Good luck with the project I will keep up with the progress of all and
will add some pics when I have time to engineer a model.

Regards
Zero

hope you can find some time soon.
looking forward to any research. This stuff fills my hole day with ideas and experiments

cheers

[electr0n]

On my replication so far...
I have 1 generator coil enabled for testing, waveshape close to romeros with a few wobbly bits, approx 1200rpm 12v 200mA.
with no biasing magnets theres no-one home voltage wise, but a little current (3x 10mm leds in parallel = load on dc side of generator coil)
after trying many capacitor combinations in parallel with the ac side of the generator coil i found a trend with the biasing magnets. The more magnets i add...the more the voltage/current goes up, rpm stays nominal, to bring the coil pair to resonance again i need more capacitance...adding more capacitors brings the voltage/current up more..all this is ok till the coil gets saturated with the bundle of magnets/caps and the rpm drops slightly.
when ive added to much capacitance the current/voltage drops.

output 2.5v 70mA 16uF ac cap and 4x 20mmx10mm N46 neos biasing
output 2v 15mA 3uF ac cap and 1 x neo magnet biasing

Interestingly the waveshape on the first output reading is messy .. i seem to loose the shape at 2v 20mA as it starts to show undercoupling.
I guess theres a spot where just before the waveshape goes wonky to set the cap/magnet ratio`s max and move to the next coil.
Ill try a heavier load like a 1 ohm resistor next
all the best and keep up the great work
Jim

[Farmhand]

What I propose in the circuit below is a cascading technique. Circuit 1 draws its drive power from the original supply and charges its capacitor to a predetermined potential that is capable of a greater potential than the initial startup supply delivered from Circuit 1.
Circuit 2, in course charges another capacitor that then supplies a greater potential to Circuit 3. Circuit 3 in turn powers Circuit 4 and so on down the line.
In the Muller Design we have 9 coil pairs. Because of the inductance of the coils the voltage exponentially rises at each stage. The beautiful thing about this concept is that the motor generator increases RPM because of the collecting load to its capacitor and the voltage increase to the second drive stage.
Collecting the power in the capacitors increases drive torque as well as RPM by means of increased acceleration under load and increased acceleration by greatly cascading the voltage to the supply, circuit by circuit. To date I have tested a 1 – 2 – 3 configuration, and so far it appears to function as described.

We need to keep thinking about alternative Ideas.

Cool idea Rod, I can't wait to see that video, the cascading voltages. Brilliant If that works I will have to seriously build one. And get the some of the stuff made professionally. Umm a big one too.

[gyula]

Hi Jim,

I think you have nice progress and let me quote Romero from the ou forum what he wrote to member penno64, (I think you may have read it though):

Let me make something clear for all: you will not have OU using a single collector coil or even if you do there will be no chance to closeloop, at least not in a non solid state version.
Combining the drive coil with the collector coil can take you to OU but still without chances to selfloop.
If it is possible then I have not achived that and I don't know.
Even if someone here will manage to build a device to run itself and that person will post all info about it, that will not necessarily be enough to be replicated.
I can tell you from my own experience, many times, I find myself in a position where I cannot easy replicate my own experiments.
Once something is done properly then we need the masters in theory to jump on and do the proper maths, then having full understanding everyone can do easy replications.
In my case I hate to do that, I am more practical than anything else.


So just continue inserting and optimizing further generator coil pairs and while doing so, try to change rotor RPM a bit up or down to explore the best combination possibilities. (You may change RPM by varying input DC supply voltage.)

Your output voltage sounds low in value, maybe you have to increase gen coil turns number? Or maybe use a full wave voltage doubler (of course output power will not double), it involves only 2 diodes instead of the 4 bridge diodes.

Sorry for chiming in...

Gyula

On my replication so far...
I have 1 generator coil enabled for testing, waveshape close to romeros with a few wobbly bits, approx 1200rpm 12v 200mA.
with no biasing magnets theres no-one home voltage wise, but a little current (3x 10mm leds in parallel = load on dc side of generator coil)
after trying many capacitor combinations in parallel with the ac side of the generator coil i found a trend with the biasing magnets. The more magnets i add...the more the voltage/current goes up, rpm stays nominal, to bring the coil pair to resonance again i need more capacitance...adding more capacitors brings the voltage/current up more..all this is ok till the coil gets saturated with the bundle of magnets/caps and the rpm drops slightly.
when ive added to much capacitance the current/voltage drops.

output 2.5v 70mA 16uF ac cap and 4x 20mmx10mm N46 neos biasing
output 2v 15mA 3uF ac cap and 1 x neo magnet biasing

Interestingly the waveshape on the first output reading is messy .. i seem to loose the shape at 2v 20mA as it starts to show undercoupling.
I guess theres a spot where just before the waveshape goes wonky to set the cap/magnet ratio`s max and move to the next coil.
Ill try a heavier load like a 1 ohm resistor next
all the best and keep up the great work
Jim

[electr0n]

@gyula
Thanks for the tips
I will try the diode config to up the voltage, my coils are wound 250T .5mm each..due to the unavailability of litz, ill see how far i can take this particular coil then move to the next. The gap between the rotor/stator is 4.0mm. I really do think my biasing neos are too strong as some ive spaced out 5-6mm from the stator (with bits of rubber car tube cut into pieces).
Also putting the generator on a couple of layers of thick carboard reduces the noise considerably if your doing 2000 rpm load tests at 2.00am
@toranarod
Great looking circuit with many possibilities, especially harmonics and resonance, i often try to visualize these circuits in the audio spectrum. ie wine glass breaking with tones, making metal tubes resonate etc, then convert it to higher spectrums utilizing the same principal.
one of my future experiments ill put 40-50 or more piezo`s around the stator and make use of the low rpm vibration hah
back to it, good luck @ all
Jim

[n84dafun]

My RomeroUK-Muller Dynamo Replication

Hi,

Here are a couple pics and a YouTube video of my replication. I haven't measured the input and output amps yet. I also need to tweak it so that the rotation increases when I short the circuit, as RomeroUK suggested. At this point, with only magnets on one coil-pair, it lugs down when I place an 8 ohm resistor (25 Watts) across the cap. So it's not really shorted as a say in the video. Each FWBR is paralleled with 4 2N4007 diodes.

All the generator coils are connected in parallel and connected to the 47000 uF capacitor. What you see on the scope is the output at the cap. I'm waiting for my DC/DC 3-Amp converter from Walmart, and also my tachometer.

-brian

YouTube - ‪2011 06 14 00 53 51 474‬‏

[toranarod]

Hi,

Here are a couple pics and a YouTube video of my replication. I haven't measured the input and output amps yet. I also need to tweak it so that the rotation increases when I short the circuit, as RomeroUK suggested. At this point, with only magnets on one coil-pair, it lugs down when I place an 8 ohm resistor (25 Watts) across the cap. So it's not really shorted as a say in the video. Each FWBR is paralleled with 4 2N4007 diodes.

All the generator coils are connected in parallel and connected to the 47000 uF capacitor. What you see on the scope is the output at the cap. I'm waiting for my DC/DC 3-Amp converter from Walmart, and also my tachometer.

-brian

YouTube - ‪2011 06 14 00 53 51 474‬‏

That's A work of art
congratulations

[elias]

Hi,

Here are a couple pics and a YouTube video of my replication. I haven't measured the input and output amps yet. I also need to tweak it so that the rotation increases when I short the circuit, as RomeroUK suggested. At this point, with only magnets on one coil-pair, it lugs down when I place an 8 ohm resistor (25 Watts) across the cap. So it's not really shorted as a say in the video. Each FWBR is paralleled with 4 2N4007 diodes.

All the generator coils are connected in parallel and connected to the 47000 uF capacitor. What you see on the scope is the output at the cap. I'm waiting for my DC/DC 3-Amp converter from Walmart, and also my tachometer.

-brian

YouTube - ‪2011 06 14 00 53 51 474‬‏

Nice Work Brian!
May I ask you what material is your rotor made of?
I want to build a new rotor, so your advice will be helpful.