Muller generator replication by Romerouk

[nueview]

Hello Lidmotor. and every one.

I am the same. I have an idea and go off and build it, or I read some work by other and believe I can replicate it and I may get lucky and finds something.

There have been other before us who have found over unity so can we.

I have seen a few things in my years of research that keeps me working on.
Like my current project with the cascading effect.

I was perusing the EV gray pulse motor when RomeroUK came along so now I have combined the work.

there are so many projects to look into.

lets all help each other because with out your support and this forum as a sounding board for our work. I would have given up long ago.

Thank and good luck.

Rod

I really like what you are attempting to do with the cascading effect of the charging i have thought about this and it makes allot of sense in many ways
for the muller to drive one slot it hits several generator coils lets say that the generator coils charge with a high ampere rate but low voltage and at the end of one motor drive cycle all the caps are series connected for voltage and dumped to the main cap the charge should excede the drive output
in the case of a battery the tune charger effect works much better as the voltage is connected first so as to raise total potential across the cells or cell and then the amps are drawn in this gives a better charge rate as long as the system does not miss a beat. this is common to the bedini device as well but done with spikes and to a lesser effect.
these are some things i have found that work and are just some suggestions.
though i can see this making any system more complicated.
i am working on a resonant drive motor very different but it may go to this design as you guys are making some of the advantages of this system more evident to me.
Martin

[Lidmotor]

Searching for answers---but finding more questions

@Ren
I have been using only air core coils on this project up until this week. On my small devices it seems the best way to avoid drag and get something spinning. My little "spinners" go pretty fast sometimes but there isn't much torque doing it this way. What I CAN do is generate voltage buy using a pickup coil with lots of fine wire and a load that is more voltage than amperage dependent. "Maggie" is an example of that. On this project the idea of letting to generator coil build up energy using capacitors instead of a direct load is a similar idea. It is kinda like the generator coil telling the magnet rotor, " OK. OK. I know. I know. If I take the watts you are going to slow down then your not happy and I'm not happy. Sooooo----why don't we make a deal. You keep the amperage and just give me the voltage and I'll figure out a way to make THAT work for me then you can go on spinning." The magnet rotor says, "Deal."
Over and over again in these projects I see this idea of using the voltage and avoiding the current. Maybe a combination of cored and uncored coils is the answer like you said. Use the cored coils to push the magnets around and the air core coils to grab the voltage as they fly by. Capacitors then convert the energy and pulse out the wattage. The setup that you are using (I think) is basically doing just that. It seems to me that the efficiency of this process is dependent on the physical make up of the device and the timing of all the events. It is allot of variables to get it to work right.

@Toranarod
Rod this forum is a great sounding board for ideas. You and I have discovered that many times the outcome of a project (the sucessful part) is different than the original quest. It is a beautiful thing. When I started this project I knew that the probability was remote that anyone was going to replicate Romero's results. I was hopeful though and I figured that this could be a good ride to go on. I might learn something useful along the way. That is the great thing about actually building something rather than just talking about it. Strange things happen during the build. Surprises.

@Gravityblock
The "knocking and thumping" to me is an indication that things aren't quite right. This thing should run smooth. Now that I have the ferrite cores in my coils I can really see the situation. By adjusting the distance between the rotor and the coils I can find a "sweet spot" where the noise goes away. HOWEVER----I am using a 5 magnet to 4 coil pairs arrangement. The Romero ratio might be totally different. I have been wondering if maybe he had all those rotor magents and bias magnets just right to make an (almost) pure magnet motor. Maybe when given a precise pulse at just the right time--- the rotor self push-pulled itself around. Maybe even those large steel bolts that held the thing together had a part in it. I don't know.

Lidmotor

[jonnydavro]

I'm surprised that Slayer and Jonny D. are not envolved in this project. Maybe they are and are just not saying anything.

Hi Lidmotor .I am not working on this yet but hope to try a few things out soon.I have been away on holiday and on the way back from the airport the cambelt snapped in my car and valves hit pistons and all that kind of stuff and it has taken me 3 weeks to fix it but i have followed this thread from the start and it has been a great to see all the hard work people have put in.
My first experiments i think will be coil shorting.I will use my pendulum as i have a circuit which feeds back to the run cap and i don't think it will take much to push it over but the low frequency of a pendulum may not be ideal but it is worth a try.
I have really enjoyed watching the development of your motor and i hope you continue to develop it.Jonny
@All.I don't know how many of you are aware of an experimenter called twinbeard and a motor which he calls a "flowerpower device" which uses a starship coil and a small neo sphere as a rotor.This motor has spun the rotor at 3450000rpm-THREE AND A HALF MILLION RPMS and believe it or not,the rotor went supersonic and exploded.
He can only achieve this high rpm by delaying Lenz using principles based on Thane Heins.
Here is a quote from a post twinbeard made.
"in fact, i am sure it is out of phase... the thane heins effect essentially works out like this... you have a rotor going at high frequency, with a high impedance generator coil. parasitic capacitance make an electrostatic field of high voltage on the surface of the wire, but there is a minute phase delay in current (and hence, counter emf) in the actual wire of the coil, as the electostatic charge decays. this gives the rotor a chance to move out of the way before lenz can slow him down, and in certain cases, the phase shift will actually accelerate the rotor."
Twinbeard was getting acceleration of the rotor with a dead shorted pickup coil underload back in mid 2010 and i am sure some of his discoveries could help with the muller gen.
You can read some very interesting exchanges and information on his flowerpower device here.His posts start on page 27.Here is a link.Jonny
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post106504
Here is Twinbeards chanal
YouTube - ‪piratetwinbeard's Channel‬‏

[khabe]

This motor has spun the rotor at 3450000rpm-THREE AND A HALF MILLION RPMS and believe it or not,the rotor went supersonic and exploded.
He can only achieve this high rpm by delaying Lenz using principles based on

Oh dear
Looks like medical aid is inaccessible in many places on the world

Yeah, even when smallest neo sphere, lets say 1/4", even then surphase velocity 1100 m/sec have you ever thought about what it means this is not just velocity, there is also radius r do you know what is G, you can simple calculate like g = v²/r = ω²r for better understanding about high RPM and to prevent raveing in future please go to
Centripetal Force
Some calculators:
https://www.msu.edu/~venkata1/gforce...ult1=&TextBox=
g force (RCF) Calculation - KUBOTA
cheers,
khabe

[IndianaBoys]

Oh dear
Looks like medical aid is inaccessible in many places on the world

Yeah, even when smallest neo sphere, lets say 1/4", even then surphase velocity 1100 m/sec have you ever thought about what it means this is not just velocity, there is also radius r do you know what is G, you can simple calculate like g = v²/r = ω²r for better understanding about high RPM and to prevent raveing in future please go to
Centripetal Force
Some calculators:
https://www.msu.edu/~venkata1/gforce...ult1=&TextBox=
g force (RCF) Calculation - KUBOTA
cheers,
khabe

Khabe,

Show us your work?

IndianaBoys

[khabe]

Khabe,

Show us your work?

IndianaBoys

You mean about SPINNING BALL?
If I need I can do it,
But up till I rely on to works of professionals:
http://www.pes.ee.ethz.ch/uploads/tx...AM_1304_1_.pdf

cheers,
khabe

Believe me, IndianaBoys, I like every kind of experiments and motors and etc ... what I do not like is codswallop and bluff,
jonnydavro told ... twinbeard told ... three and half million rpm
OK, perhaps they had some vacuum utilities, perhaps special ordered ultra-precision and extra-strong neo sphere ...
... but from where those guys found such kind of rpm-meter

[jonnydavro]

You mean about SPINNING BALL?
If I need I can do it,
But up till I rely on to works of professionals:
http://www.pes.ee.ethz.ch/uploads/tx...AM_1304_1_.pdf

cheers,
khabe

Believe me, IndianaBoys, I like every kind of experiments and motors and etc ... what I do not like is codswallop and bluff,
jonnydavro told ... twinbeard told ... three and half million rpm
OK, perhaps they had some vacuum utilities, perhaps special ordered ultra-precision and extra-strong neo sphere ...
... but from where those guys found such kind of rpm-meter

Hi Khabe .No need for a fancy rpm meter,maths and the right variables should be all thats needed.Please take a bit of time to read the link i posted as i get the feeling that you are the type of person who looks before they leap .
That was a very interestinhg pdf you posted although the motor discussed was theoretical but the table showing the past results was very interesting along with the size of the rotors but there is a big difference between these motors and Twinbeards flower power device which is the flower power device is under load and speeds up UNDER LOAD and can only achieve such high speeds by avoiding Lenz drag and utilising it to give the rotor a push so here are similarities with Romeouk motor/gen but using just 1 magnet.Jonny

[redrichie]

Nice to see you around Jonny.
If no one has read the coil shorting thread over at OU then I highly recommend it. Prob good to have a little background as to what has been happening since the beginning of the year. And so we dont backtrack over needless dead ends. Konehead, Bolt, romero, Woopy, etc all have had great success and the beginnings of the Muller are there.

[toranarod]

greater than the total from the supply

Hello Ren Lidmotor Ash and others.

This needs its own thread so next post I will make one if it keeps going as
It has been.

Its been a long day working on the cascading project and its only just getting started.
I have e had a lot of electronic problems to solve to get the circuits to perform as required.
The schematics presented below are more a theoretical block diagram than what has evolved.
But you will get the idea.

I have been going over this all day recording data and making calculations
Here is what I have come up with.

Each stages if tuned correctly will power the next stage. There is a small lose of power as we go from stage to stage. Example stage one draws 110 mille amps from the battery at 24 volts. Keep in mined this is the only power we are using from the supply.
Also not the motor increases performance with the powering up of each circuit

Stage two can be tuned to consume 90 mille amps at 24 volts.

Stage three can be tuned to consume 80 mille amps at 24 volts.

Stage four can be tuned to consume 70 mille amps at 24 volts.

Stage five can be tuned to consume 60 mille amps at 24 volts.

Stage six can be tuned to consume 50 mille amps at 24 volts and so on

This is a close approximation of the figures; there is few more parameter I cannot
go into here but the point I am getting to is. All the energy being used collectively
In the motor is greater than the total from the supply. Due to the conservation of energy
Each stage has a bit less available to it so at the end of the circuit it’s not possible to loop it back to its self. But there is more than being consumed than is extracted from the battery.

What I don’t know is how much torque the motor has acquired will it drive another generator coil that will power the supply or something like that.

There are still many variations I have yet to try.

[khabe]

Sorry, but looks like theretofore you have no idea what means 3.45 mio rpm.
Even 345 kilo rpm could be accomplishment
But it sounds like 13.45 krpm not 34.5 kilo rpm
You can calculate when you have what to calculate,
When for example two pole air core brushless motor then there are two (or one) "coils" per phase ("coil" means bunch of conductors) and there is flux returning unit beyond the "coils", this is easy to calculate by driver pulses,
but when you have "flowerpower StarWar device" where tens of coils ... what from theses is with the rotor (ball) pole acts? Does it act per every revolution, does it act at all or just passes over ... or just slips down ...skims like hardly skidding clutch You cant get million rpm just on the table even not inside plastic tube, even you use StarWarFlowerPower coil you can not do this. You read the article I added, hopefully you understand that with 6...10 times less diameter this is much easiar, but even then they used slight vacuum and steel ball was magetically supported.
When some special-made neo sphere even is so strong that is able for million rpm then eddy losses what will come up even with 34.5 kilo rpm ... oh dear,
I think there is meanless to continue
Have a nice spinnings
cheers,
khabe

[Lidmotor]

Welcome aboard Jonny

Jonny. You are a little late to the party but maybe we can find you a beer somewhere. You missed the most of the wild dancing that went on earlier. Sorry to hear about your car. I have never broken a timing belt but I have replaced one on a 24 valve motor once and it was very hard. Everything has to be right or your motor eats the valves instantly.
All the work that you have done with pulse motors over the last few years should really help you on this project. I learned many things working with this axial flux design---but don't expect to build one in a week and power up your house. It is a very frustrating endeavor unless you go into it with an open mind but grounded in reality. Toranarod (Rod) and some others are methodically picking this thing apart looking for any clues or new discoveries. There are some brilliant people attracted to this project. When the replicators were not able to instantly get their device to perfom like Romero's they started going backwards trying to find out why. In doing that they discovered new things and came up with new ideas. It is kinda one step forwards, two steps backwards, then maybe four steps waaaay forward.

Lidmotor

[elias]

@All.I don't know how many of you are aware of an experimenter called twinbeard and a motor which he calls a "flowerpower device" which uses a starship coil and a small neo sphere as a rotor.This motor has spun the rotor at 3450000rpm-THREE AND A HALF MILLION RPMS and believe it or not,the rotor went supersonic and exploded.
He can only achieve this high rpm by delaying Lenz using principles based on Thane Heins.

I can not imagine what he has accomplished 3.5 million RPMs sounds like madness, is he alive? Delaying Lenz is what I am talking about 4 months now and I can confirm that this hypothesis is correct, but this is very very fast, what type of bearing has he been using, and how much energy??

Edit: I didn't realize he didn't use bearings, pretty cool.

[blackchisel97]

Hi guys,

I had to postpone my bigger build since postal strike grounded magnets somewhere and not having enough wire. I didn't have much time to spare lately but managed to get smaller device done. I have only one set of trigger coils done on sewing bobbins with single strand #31 and only two sets of gen coils with #26, full spools.
I was thinking in line of SSG while adjusting rotor - coil gap - moving coils apart until "kick" is very gentle but allows device to run. I've got approx. 10mm gap on both sides atm. doubled 1/2" magnets in the rotor (eight) and ferrite cores.
I'm hoping to get FWBR's done later today. Meanwhile I connected LED's to each coil and they have no effect on rpm or input which is between 90 - 100mA. I tried to short one coil with 12V5W bulb and got her glowing but obviously this is too much and rotor slows down quite a bit.
I have double magnets on the cores with steel washers and repulsion mode.
Very interesting device. I'll try to do some more with it over the weekend.
I posted short youtube in my channel - YouTube - ‪Muller/romerouk replication attempt‬‏
Just a quick update; I connected 24 LED's to one single coil, no effect on rpm or input. I need to get other things done around but will continue shortly.

Vtech

[blackchisel97]

I wound 2 more sets of gen coils last night and had to take device apart to put them in place. I must changed something ( most likely the gap between rotor and coils) because my previous load - 22 LED is slowing the RMP considerably right now. Yesterday did not affect the rotor at all. I did measure LED draw and it is 40mA. No effect on input draw. I need to play and find this good spot again. I have magnets on the cores repulsing rotor magnets. Rotor speeds up when I flip them around but the output from coil remains about the same.

V

[totoalas]

Rotor to Stator Sweetspot

Hi to all

talking of SWEET SPOT of stator to coil
I tried to use an ac clamp meter instead of neogen coil and try to rotate the rotor ns(HD drive magnet) manually by hand Moving parallel the clamp meter with 3 to 5 mm clearance passing by the rotor , The reading registered more than 40 amps in ac scale with one top side of the meters coil on top of magnet ..... so an air coil placement of one side of the top coil will produce the maximum effect
Dont know if this is relevant just an observation

cheers

totoalas