Muller generator replication by Romerouk

[MonsieurM]

Hello to all,
I’m going to report my research for the last few days. I would like to point out that these are my observations and this data will require a lot more tweaking and testing before I can validate its complete accuracy but it is presenting some of the interesting results to date. I’m also planning on more changes to the design so I expect to see improvements and the configuration to look very different from currently.
The second thing I would like to mention is the similarity between my observations and the work presented by Romero, which I guess is a good thing as I am posting this under the Muller replica thread.
The major similarity seems to be that both motors reflect directly proportional parameters. Looking at the magnet to coil size ratio (in the photo below) there appears to be a direct relationship. I am using 10 mm magnets and they are facing the square core of 14 mm at a distance of 5 mm. This seems to be an ideal distance to get the best result. It is interesting how the working distance is half the diameter of the face of the magnets. Note that I am still working with over-the-counter materials so it is hard at this point to ascertain the correct iron core size but I am going to make and test a 10 mm core.
Other contributing factors include motor RPM and the correct amount of load on the coil. Coil load seems to be directly proportional to coil resistance, e.g. while a 1 ohm coil requires a 1 ohm load to achieve current draw with no apparent loss on motor performance, a 5 ohm load causes drag to the motor. I am yet to test these ideas sufficiently. With regard to the RPM as a contributing factor to the motor’s function, the magnet must move past the coil at a certain velocity to avoid drag. The RPM of my system under test today was (on average) 3200 RPM. If the RPM was not of sufficient speed a dead short across the coil would incur significant Lens drag.

Note to Penno64 – these are the circuits being used in the set-up.

Excellent!

now your seeing it :

what i can tell you for sure is once your mind realizes the true meaning of fractal, and that it is not just in the shape of nature but also in the process/engine...well let's put it this way, the shape becomes the engine

[toranarod]

This is a good circuit you should build this and test it.
this will be very useful for a this application.

[Zooty]

@Toranarod, what is the diameter of your new rotorand how many magnets do you have on it? Is your iron core laminated? If so, how many laminations? I just ordered ten 10mmx10mm N42 magnets.

One more question, what type of bearing are you using?

Regards,

Zooty

[toranarod]

@Toranarod, what is the diameter of your new rotorand how many magnets do you have on it? Is your iron core laminated? If so, how many laminations? I just ordered ten 10mmx10mm N42 magnets.

One more question, what type of bearing are you using?

Regards,

Zooty

I use a heavy auto motive bearing. Its from the V Belt Idler Pulley from my Toyota
You can get one from any car they are cheap and easy to make this is what I have done











8 magnets inserted into a solid billet of PVC. 150 mm Dia. Each magnet extends out by 5 mm making total diameter 160 mm

I will get back to you on the laminates

[yx630514]

Hi toranarod:

Now I use you to provide circuit experiment,
Supply voltage 20V, it works very good. Load use AC 220V energy saving lamps.
But: load (CFLs) are still only can intermittent flashes (flashing very fast), Not always continuous light.

Where I did not do right?
How to solve this problem?

Thank you and look forward to your reply.

PS: You now work: Precise adjustment of the distance between coil and magnet, and the use of incandescent bulbs, They still use the BEMF recovery work mode?

[Zooty]

I use a heavy auto motive bearing. Its from the V Belt Idler Pulley from my Toyota
You can get one from any car they are cheap and easy to make this is what I have done


8 magnets inserted into a solid billet of PVC. 150 mm Dia. Each magnet extends out by 5 mm making total diameter 160 mm

I will get back to you on the laminates

Thank you. Very informative. Does a bearing of that size run nice and free? I was thinking of going down the maglev rout.

[toranarod]

Hi toranarod:

Now I use you to provide circuit experiment,
Supply voltage 20V, it works very good. Load use AC 220V energy saving lamps.
But: load (CFLs) are still only can intermittent flashes (flashing very fast), Not always continuous light.

Where I did not do right?
How to solve this problem?

Thank you and look forward to your reply.

PS: You now work: Precise adjustment of the distance between coil and magnet, and the use of incandescent bulbs, They still use the BEMF recovery work mode?

Increase the size of the 47uF cap to 470 uF on the output and try to increase RPM.
what is your RPM? I use a multistage Pulse system that I can control. more pulse the more EMF.

[toranarod]

Thank you. Very informative. Does a bearing of that size run nice and free? I was thinking of going down the maglev rout.

The bearing is very robust and can take a lot of force un like the HD bearings.
any good bearing will do. they spin very smooth for there size and have good tolerances. I was surprised how good they are.

[yx630514]

Hi toranarod:
Thank you for the timely response.

I speed roughly 1200-2200rpm (controlled by adjusting the power supply voltage level).

PS: How do you achieve "multistage Pulse system"? I noticed that you wave in the "ON" state has 5 tip-peak. But I now only 1 tip-peak.

[Slider2732]

@elias - the 'Slider coil' refers to experiments I conducted recently, back a few pages in this thread. Over at OU, there was a diagram posted that seemed to be of little consequence or use to people, but had come from talks by someone (forgotten who at the moment) with Romero. Romero had supplied a diagram that related to coil windings.
He said at the start of all this, that he used a lot of salvaged multi-strand wire from old PC monitors. The wire comes from the neck of the tubes and is typically of 7 strands. it's tough to remove because of the factory glue, but holds up very well if careful when removing it.
Romero's drawing was for 5 strands, so I extended the idea to 7.

The diagrams are all a few pages back, as I say, but after winding a coil, the start strands 1, 2, and 3 connect to the end strands 4, 5, 6, and 7. Those are then all soldered together. The start strands 4, 5, 6, and 7 become one coil input and the end strands 1, 2, and 3 become the other input.

Raised to 9 strands (as found personally on a trim coil next to a monitor circuit board flyback) such effects as white flashes within a neon bulb can be observed when it is directly connected across the coil input wires. As power coils they exibit odd effects, such as the ability to keep the rotor spinning at one exact speed no matter what the running voltage. You can start a motor with 12V and decrease right down to 3V and the rotor will spin at exactly the same rate !
Placing an LED across the joined up wires and one coil input wire will light the LED, but seemingly draw no extra power or decrease rotor speed. The 9 strand coil I made had actually 10 strands...placing an LED across the ends of that spare strand lit the LED well.
Also, if positioned incredibly carefully, a massive speed up in rotor speed can be achieved when shorting the coil. I used a household lightbulb to do so in one YouTube video.
Rod has had success with the coil winding method too and continues to stride forwards with his own build after the 9 strand method was tried at his suggestion.

Hope that helps

[quantumuppercut]

Hi all,

I do see one case where Lenz does not effect RPM.

The first one show drag on left and right of top dead center. The second one would be drag and boost.

ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting

[Joit]

Slider
are you sure about that, that Romero did connect the Litzwire on the Muller this Way?
I thought i did read almost all over there, but anyhow did miss this Part,
that he mentioned, the Coils been connected in this Way.
This would make a different Picture at all.

[MonsieurM]

Hello to all,
I’m going to report my research for the last few days. I would like to point out that these are my observations and this data will require a lot more tweaking and testing before I can validate its complete accuracy but it is presenting some of the interesting results to date. I’m also planning on more changes to the design so I expect to see improvements and the configuration to look very different from currently.
The second thing I would like to mention is the similarity between my observations and the work presented by Romero, which I guess is a good thing as I am posting this under the Muller replica thread.
The major similarity seems to be that both motors reflect directly proportional parameters. Looking at the magnet to coil size ratio (in the photo below) there appears to be a direct relationship. I am using 10 mm magnets and they are facing the square core of 14 mm at a distance of 5 mm. This seems to be an ideal distance to get the best result. It is interesting how the working distance is half the diameter of the face of the magnets. Note that I am still working with over-the-counter materials so it is hard at this point to ascertain the correct iron core size but I am going to make and test a 10 mm core.
Other contributing factors include motor RPM and the correct amount of load on the coil. Coil load seems to be directly proportional to coil resistance, e.g. while a 1 ohm coil requires a 1 ohm load to achieve current draw with no apparent loss on motor performance, a 5 ohm load causes drag to the motor. I am yet to test these ideas sufficiently. With regard to the RPM as a contributing factor to the motor’s function, the magnet must move past the coil at a certain velocity to avoid drag. The RPM of my system under test today was (on average) 3200 RPM. If the RPM was not of sufficient speed a dead short across the coil would incur significant Lens drag.

Note to Penno64 – these are the circuits being used in the set-up.

toranarod, would it be possible for you to give me the dimensions of the coils (number of turns, lenght of wire), I want to play with the numbers like in your previous table and see what comes out....

[toranarod]

toranarod, would it be possible for you to give me the dimensions of the coils (number of turns, lenght of wire), I want to play with the numbers like in your previous table and see what comes out....

[MonsieurM]

@Toranarod, thank very much for the info, just to give you an idea of why I am asking you for the numbers, it may help you find a pattern

The Philosopher Stoned

I would like to take a slightly deeper look at the Fibonacci/Rodin number wheel. But first, a quick review of Marko Rodin's vortex based mathematics for those that aren't so familiar. It is based on reducing all numbers to whole numbers, for example 25 = 2+5 = 7 or 1.156 = 1+1+5+6 = 13 = 1+3 = 4. From this we see very interesting patterns emerge. It may seem simple at first, but I believe it has far-reaching applications some of which we have seen in the development of the Rodin Coil. Take a look at this simple multiplication table - thanks to Chris Te Nyenhuis for this.

pay attention to row 4 and 5; and column 4 and 5

Notice first how 9 repeats itself always. This is the master key of all numbers, we can think of it as zero, the point from which all numbers emerge. Just as zero divides positive from negative, 9 creates two polarities embodied in 3 and 6. The 3-6-9 and 6-3-9 cycle can be thought of as clockwise and counter-clockwise, or electricity and magnetism. We can also see the other pairs which add up to 9: 1 and 8, 2 and 7, 4 and 5, run backwards from each other. We will call these inverts. So 8 could be thought of as -1, 7 as -2, etc.
These 6 remaining numbers can also be depicted as a doubling/halving circuit on the lazy infinity shape on this wheel. Following one way we have doubling or powers of two: 1, 2, 4, 8, 7, 5, 1... equivalent to 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64... The other way is halving, or inverse powers of two: 1, 5, 7, 8, 4, 2, 1 ... expressing 1, .5, .25, .125, .625, etc. Start from any number and this holds true.