Muller generator replication by Romerouk

[Shadesz]

And yes...there is energy in the wall. To get it out we knock the wall over. The energy in the wall was moved there. What you can get out of it is still going to be less than it took to stand it there.
You can't access the potential energy stored in a boulder on a cliff edge without pushing it off.....while your push may be less than the energy gained from the fall....as your apparent understanding of where energy comes from will show you, no matter how efficently you gathered the energy from the falling stone, it can only at best equal the ammount to real energy it took to get it there.

You don't truly understand all the phases of energy do you? Tell me, in a sentence or two each, what is...
Potential energy?
Kinetic Energy?
Electric energy?
Thermal Energy?
Solar Energy?
Chemical Energy?
Atomic energy?

I'll follow this leg through, if your apparent motives don't change you have had your last interaction with me. I have too much life to live wasting it arguing with trolls.

[142857]

See above as to why people didn't respond to you. It's sad really. Are you that bored that you are hear asking, nah, repeatedly begging, for a fight?

I'll bite one more time, you put yourself on the hot seat. One more chance. It's either redeem or ignore list for you buddy. No skin off my back either way.

About you saying magnets not being able to create kinetic energy.. do a super simple test for me. Place a magnet in your hand and slowly raise your hand up under something metal. Tell me what happens.

Magnets do create kinetic energy. All the time. The lenz trick is removing the second half of the energy, so they do not cancel out the energy they initially created.

Ignore is two mouse clicks away. Are you going to add to this thread or just try to derail it? If you are sincere with your questions prove it by starting a new thread titled something like... "practical applications of the Muller generator".

you should probably ignore me just like the rest of physics.

but first you do a simple experiment for me.....put a rock in your hand and slowly turn you hand over. what happens? did the rock create kinetic energy or did you?

how bout this , pull the spring out of a pen and compress it between your fingers, then just let go?

when you are done, just for kicks, see how much energy it takes to remove my magnet that stuck to my piece of metal.

I AM NOT trying to pick a fight. I'm asking questions. Valid questions at that.

my opinion is that this thing will not self run, sorry that offends but, nobody seems to be able to prove otherwise. Show me, I'll shut up then. That should be simple. No?

So far there is no need for a seperate thread about valid uses, myself and matt are the only ones who have made any kind of suggestion at all.

[quantumuppercut]

Hey guys,

I just fixed my fan rotor and tested the bifilar coil disconnected using only capacitive coupling as described in earlier post. It does show about the same amount of voltage as direct connection to 1 of the coil. I'm thinking this is the way to do it, capacitive coupling. After all, negative inductance is capacitance, is it?

[minoly]

@minoly
On the contrary, the accidental confection would be more easily derived from applying what one already knows about food stuffs. I'm not saying happy accidents don't happen, they do. But much more is acomplished by building on what is known.

If this brick never floats(imo, and according to all the evidence, it never will) will anybody take the time to inspect the cobbler/byproducts or will they just move on to the next belief based ruse that pops up ie. The next romero, bedini, muller, milkovic, bearden, lindman or howard johnson or whoever....

this is but a small example:
Top 10 Accidental Inventions of the World
innovation is a wonderful thing.
why do you bother posting if you are not trying to learn and create...

[citfta]

In 1899 Charles H Duell was the Commissioner of the American Patent Office. He stated they should just close down the patent office because "Everything that can be invented has been invented."

Just another example of a narrow minded know it all.

Carroll

[Matthew Jones]

your magnet cannot CREATE kinetic energy.
You can:
input/move your magnet into a position wherein you could use it to derive kinetic energy that will be equal to or less than your initial input.

Ya I can and have many times.
LatestAssembly.MPG - YouTube
This is an example of that very action. To push the driven magnets into the array it takes 1 and 1/4 inch pounds of pressure. The array then triggers a rapid acceleration onto the driven magnet and it comes out of the array at 14 inch pounds of pressure.
This has been tested by several different mechanical engineers, as well as everyone who has walked my shop. You are welcome to come see.

So Yes you can make magnet do work and derive more energy than you put in!!!

Oh ya I added this: Howard Johnson was for real and so ar most of those people you listed.

[Matthew Jones]

This is what the guy "142857" posted on the You Tube. For some reason he didn't continue the discussion here.

I am afraid not Matt even though the clip looks convincing, it's isn't the case. It's like your are cocking a slingshot without really realizing it.

So without ever laying his hands on the assembly he knows how it works, he knows what it is doing.
But you cannot develop 14 inch pounds of force by cocking a slingshot that only takes 1 1/4 inch pounds to set up.


Name one device that does not use gears or levers for leverage that can do that? Thats it. Something you can cock and release that produces more force than you put in.

Matt

[redrichie]

Matt, somehow I missed that clip all these years. That is awesome. have you ever developed that further? if there is zero resistance at the end and no sticking point, then why havent you developed this into a circular track and extract energy from it? or have you? it would seem that even with the portion of HJ track you have there if you had an entire ring of those magnets, with a small break in it, then after the last part was exiting with the 14 pounds then that would overcome the 1.25 to reenter. Right?

[Matthew Jones]

Right! You understand perfectly.



Matt

[Shadesz]

Have you guys try this set up with the magnet rotor yet?

ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting

This set up is posted by penno a while back but with a function generator. I tried it this morning with the computer fan rotor. Basically, it's a bifilar with wire not connected to each other. We use the wires as capacitance and turns as inductance. It's an equivalent of series cap I suppose. When connected to same end, it does not give out much. When connected in opposite ends like the picture, it gives out much voltage. My fan flew apart after I see it so repair time later. I suppose there also a sweet point too.

Hey guys,

I just fixed my fan rotor and tested the bifilar coil disconnected using only capacitive coupling as described in earlier post. It does show about the same amount of voltage as direct connection to 1 of the coil. I'm thinking this is the way to do it, capacitive coupling. After all, negative inductance is capacitance, is it?

Can you expand on this? I'm not familiar with the bifilar coil yet.

[quantumuppercut]

Can you expand on this? I'm not familiar with the bifilar coil yet.

Here are some vids about the bifilar coil.

How to Wind a Bifilar Coil - YouTube
Make a Joule Thief - YouTube

It's the same as normal coil except there are 2 wires instead of 1. There are 4 ends total.

1s---------------------------------1f
2s---------------------------------2f

1s= wire 1 start end
1f= wire 1 finish end
2s= wire 2 start end
2f = wire 2 finish end
-------------------------= wire

I left the 1f and 2s alone and just connect the 1s and 2f to a full bridge rectifier. The current draw should be proportional to flux change and wire capacitance and the coil should be lenzless if capacitance and magnet speed is not too high, but need testing to confirm.

[142857]

Matt, somehow I missed that clip all these years. That is awesome. have you ever developed that further? if there is zero resistance at the end and no sticking point, then why havent you developed this into a circular track and extract energy from it? or have you? it would seem that even with the portion of HJ track you have there if you had an entire ring of those magnets, with a small break in it, then after the last part was exiting with the 14 pounds then that would overcome the 1.25 to reenter. Right?

The problem comes on re entry right? I've tried several variations on this myself(anything SMOTish or related was my first real interest when I began toying with the ideas in question...I thought I was going to solve it with a little nudge from gravity....never actually materialized, not for lack of trying or lack of buying alot of magnets.

...in matts vid for example, it seems simple enough of an idea. but ultimately it won't work on a wheel. Why? Matt? I don't wanna seem like a know it all. Tell us why in the face of the poundage evidence that this can't seem to be made cyclical? Have you had any luck along the idea of your cad 4' wheel?

Could you make your ramp longer and stand it vert.....launching your magnets out and let gravity recock it for you when they fall back in? I couldn't, I tried....several different ways....why wont it work?
Matt?


Look Guys, I didn't come here to derail anything....I wanted to know if this muller thing had any advantage to currently available wind generators. Yes, I can be very "matter of fact" but honestly guys, my opinion is just like your brown eye.....shouldn't really matter here...this is science....we use evidence right?

Theoretically it could upgrade the wind/energy business.

Unfortunately all the people working on it seem to be so caught up in the religion of believing they can CREATE energy that they can't smell the cobbler.

Howard Johnson was for real so were the others, and so was Jesus.....other than a few books and some stories of old there is absolutely NO evidence of any of the previously claimed miracles.....fom any of them.

so, i guess we should just believe.




I edited this so as not to double post: forgot to point out once again I'm NOT 142857 on youtube....on youtube I am 50lbhead Richie can verify that.

[Shadesz]

Theoretically it could upgrade the wind/energy business.

Unfortunately all the people working on it seem to be so caught up in the religion of believing they can CREATE energy that they can't smell the cobbler.

If this is such a good smelling cobbler to you then why don't YOU take it to the wind energy industry? Heck, you could even patent it (seeing as it is a different application than has been done before) and sell it to them.

You pretend you know so much, but have failed to answer even basic answers about phases of energy. I wish you would take your idea and run with it. It would do the world good after all. Heck I would even contribute to the thread if you kept it open source, but as far as this thread goes, you have proven your beliefs don't agree/belong here. Ignore list for you.



Edit: For those who also want to ignore his attitude in this forum here is a link to your friend/ignore list.

[Shadesz]

Rod,

I'm having a problem seeing how the RPM's you have in this test relate to the frequency. At that RPM I calculate that a magnet should pass the gen coil 541.2 times per second, but this doesn't reflect your 663 cycles per Microsecond.

Can you help me understand the relationship? Thanks in advance. PS, I hope your build is coming along nicely.

[142857]

If this is such a good smelling cobbler to you then why don't YOU take it to the wind energy industry? Heck, you could even patent it (seeing as it is a different application than has been done before) and sell it to them.

You pretend you know so much, but have failed to answer even basic answers about phases of energy. I wish you would take your idea and run with it. It would do the world good after all. Heck I would even contribute to the thread if you kept it open source, but as far as this thread goes, you have proven your beliefs don't agree/belong here. Ignore list for you.



Edit: For those who also want to ignore his attitude in this forum here is a link to your friend/ignore list.

You were supposed to ignore me a few posts ago.
and why do you want me to quote energy phases of ele definitions to you...you obviously don't believe physics definitions?

if you haven't ignored me yet....how bout indulge me....what exactly have you built? It's my understanding that you are pretty new to all this? I'm not...

Who is pretending to be "so smart"?

Anybody wanna show me anything I've presented as fact that is not fact? When it's my opinion, I qualify it. The rest has been questions? Obviously they are tough ones or everybodies feathers wouldn't be ruffled. Still just questions.

What the heck is with this "beliefs" crap?
This is NOT religion. Grow up. Viewpoints do actually come from every imaginable angle, in real life anyway.