Muller generator replication by Romerouk

[toranarod]

Am I wrong, or is the coil shorting in quantumuppercut's video just forming an
electromagnet and this is what is causing the RPM's to speed up by attraction or repulsion to the rotor ? Has this been tried with just a permanent magnet in
place of the coil. As I said I might be all wrong. Can anyone clear this up ?

FRC

I tried it.
A permanent magnet just creates a bit of drag no speed increase. well for me anyway.

[FRC]

Thanks toranarod

I tried it.
A permanent magnet just creates a bit of drag no speed increase. well for me anyway.

Thanks toranarod, I guess that clears that up. So there is something else
happening than just an electromagnet being formed. This whole coil shorting
thing has been discussed on other threads. I think Whoopy had another good
video on coil shorting before. It sure is an amazing phenomena.

FRC

[toranarod]

Thanks toranarod, I guess that clears that up. So there is something else
happening than just an electromagnet being formed. This whole coil shorting
thing has been discussed on other threads. I think Whoopy had another good
video on coil shorting before. It sure is an amazing phenomena.

FRC

for there to be a speed increase there needs to be an imbalance in the magnetic field. of some kind in the direction of rotation.

[SkyWatcher]

Hi folks, I'm still putting something together as a testbed to test with this effect again.
I was thinking, as another pointed out to me one time in regards to an ecklin type generator, that if we use a large enough mass and/or a large diameter rotor to store as much of the magnets natural kinetic attraction to ferromagnetic material, this then should come much closer to a 50/50 balance at higher speeds, I guess as long as the cores don't have massive eddy drag to begin with.
If needed, it could have a separate mechanism to get the rotor mass up to the proper speed then a lower power motor could take over.
For example, if we used a feather weight rotor, it would stop rather quickly as it cannot store all the kinetic energy of attraction and would appear to cog greatly.
Does this make sense to anyone, I mean using these neo magnets, the attraction to the core is fairly quick and reminds me of the need for a large capacity capacitor to capture this abrupt attraction, which is where the rotor mass and/or diameter comes into play.
Let me know what you folks think of this.
peace love light
tyson

edit: let me try to use numbers to express my thought here.
A rotor has a couple neo magnets on it, as it approaches a core, the neo magnet has the kinetic potential to store 10 units of motion, though since our rotor can only store in such a brief moment in time, say 5 units, it will now depart the core and will slow down because on departure, it did not store enough units of motion to remove itself from the core without slowing down some.
So it will slow down 5 units of motion, since the magnets have a 10 unit potential. Ignoring eddy drag in this example of course. Hope that helps.

[toranarod]

mu metal under pressure

Just for something interesting I thought I would show this.
I hope this experiment move us forward because I put a bit of time onto this one.
I have cut up 150 laminates Of MU metal, submerged them in epoxy resin and pressed them together in the hydraulic press you see in the photo.

[Shadesz]

You're gonna conquer this beast rod!

ps check your pm when you get a chance

[SkyWatcher]

Hi folks, nice setup toranarod, you are really going the distance with that experiment, I also hope it works like we hope.
So what do you folks think about the rotor mass/diameter idea, does anyone think this may be the sole reason that ferromagnetic cores slow down rotors with magnets, aside from any eddy current drag.
Reason I am thinking about this, is that with the proper mass or diameter, we should not have to worry about the amount of cores with coils as long as we can store the neo magnets kinetic attraction energy fully on entry to cores of coils.
Then a starter motor if needed can be included and when not needed, disengaged.
peace love light
tyson

[Shadesz]

Hi folks, nice setup toranarod, you are really going the distance with that experiment, I also hope it works like we hope.
So what do you folks think about the rotor mass/diameter idea, does anyone think this may be the sole reason that ferromagnetic cores slow down rotors with magnets, aside from any eddy current drag.
Reason I am thinking about this, is that with the proper mass or diameter, we should not have to worry about the amount of cores with coils as long as we can store the neo magnets kinetic attraction energy fully on entry to cores of coils.
Then a starter motor if needed can be included and when not needed, disengaged.
peace love light
tyson

I don't know if it will stop the effect. As, the speed up = slow down from a magnet would seam to be equal if the rotor (flywheel) is high or low in mass. 5 in 5 out (in a friction-less environment). The only difference would be less speed up on approach and an equal amount of less slow down on exit with a high mass rotor. In other words the bigger mass rotor would run more smoothly, but not necessarily better. That's how I understand it anyway.

Rotor radius is something to be considered. The bigger the radius the faster the magnets pass the coil per RPM. Thus less time for lenz to show up and get in the way?

[elias]

An amazing synchronicity

I was out in the mountains last night, and to my surprise I found many laminated Iron cores lying on the floor, I think that I could pick up about 3kg of those. A really bizarre coincidence! I am going to test them out. Who can think that you can find laminated Iron cores out in the mountains!! I see divine hands in all of this. I take this as a good sign that we are on the right track.

[Shadesz]

@Elias,

Thanks for sharing that. That is awesome to hear.

I agree with you. You have no idea the amazing things that have been happening in my life as of late. Some of the things I have learned and such I have to say feel like they are straight from on high. This is an extremely exciting time. I have a feeling that the next one to few months are going to be a wild ride. God has a purpose.

[toranarod]

The divine hand of fate

The divine hand of fate
I too have pondered about an influence from the universe. The fact I had MU metal and it all came out the way it did was not my doing. When I brought it, it wasn’t what I actually ordered and had no idea what to do with it until now.

The Mu metal works interestingly well but surprisingly different.
Just a quick post right now because I want to get information to you guys
So here are some figures. Will compile more detail later.

No load No coil and no side magnets 4106 RPM
No load with coil and no side magnets 4099 RPM
Full load 190 m AMPS at 6 volts 4145 RPM very quick acceleration.
Now here the bit that has got me in a spin. short the coil 4088 RPM I got no idea why.
It will require more testing and double checking so this may be wrong. But looks like it.

there are other parameter that have changed also. the gap has changed it is now so close the core it will at times just touch it as it goes past.

as i said will get a full detailed report out later

MU Metal Core

[quantumuppercut]

No load No coil and no side magnets 4106 RPM
No load with coil and no side magnets 4099 RPM
Full load 190 m AMPS at 6 volts 4145 RPM very quick acceleration.
Now here the bit that has got me in a spin. short the coil 4088 RPM I got no idea why.

Wow, interesting. New clue.

[SkyWatcher]

Hi folks, Hi shadesz, you said:

I don't know if it will stop the effect. As, the speed up = slow down from a magnet would seam to be equal if the rotor (flywheel) is high or low in mass. 5 in 5 out (in a friction-less environment). The only difference would be less speed up on approach and an equal amount of less slow down on exit with a high mass rotor. In other words the bigger mass rotor would run more smoothly, but not necessarily better. That's how I understand it anyway.

I shared my observation of rotor mass to point out that it will help reduce the slow down or drag when using a core and many of them.
Not because I thought it will affect the effect we are looking at, just to help the performance of our setups.

The speed up - slow down from a magnet attracting a ferromagnetic core is NOT equal with differing rotor masses.

I just verified it on my setup, I have one steel bolt core and 6 - 1" diameter neo magnet rotor and gently with fingers revolved rotor past core/coil.
With only the main magnet rotor, the rotor rotation quickly comes to a stop and has very abrupt cogging motion.
Then I attached 4 more heavy rotors just as weight and the whole rotor assembly rotated much longer and smoother and you could see it naturally overshooting the core due to the mass storing more kinetic energy from the magnets more efficiently.
Bedini did this in some of his setups as well and so did Bill Muller with that very large diameter and heavy mass rotor.

I suggest folks try this experiment to see for yourself that added rotor mass will help us in these generator setups using ferromagnetic cores.
peace love light
tyson

[Shadesz]

I'm sorry Sky,
I meat that the speed up and slow down would be the same for each rotor. Meaning the speed up as the rotor approaches the core should be the same as the slow down as it leaves the core. BUT this is just theory. Your hands on is a much better truth finder.
Very interesting. I really really want to build one of these but am trying to finish up a different project first.

[Xenomorph]

Just for something interesting I thought I would show this.
I hope this experiment move us forward because I put a bit of time onto this one.
I have cut up 150 laminates Of MU metal, submerged them in epoxy resin and pressed them together in the hydraulic press you see in the photo.

I'd like to ask you something concerning your process of making the cores.
Did you also anneal the mu-metal after putting the mechanical pressure on it or are you calculating the losses in while still reaching an improved core operation with the mu-metal?
Thanks