Muller generator replication by Romerouk

[qvision]

mondrasek well found, thanks

[gyula]

And here are the photos of motors toranarod surely thought of:

Muller Dynamo

Gyula

[qvision]

Thanks Gyula

(it's me DeepCut from OU)

[qvision]

List of all Turnigy produts on UK ebay :

Turnigy brushless | eBay

[stevie1001]

good looking build The Muller motor is a big job to replicate we appreciate the effort it takes to make one. pleases post-more PICs

I will post more pics, when it will add some to the process....

I do have a question about the cores for the coils.
Its about the diameter to use.
The whole idea is to use the strongest magnets on the rotor, is it?
The purpose of the magnets is to saturate the coils with its mag field.
There must be a some kind of balance in that.
Bigger magnet makes it possible to saturate a bigger core/coil?
Bigger magnets make it possible to run higher speeds and still saturate coils?
Reversed thinking is that smaller magnets = smaller coils and lower speeds.

I think that i will stick to the theory that the core diameter must be at least equal to the core diameter. That way you catch all field lines of the magnet at least for a moment in time.
Or do you have a good ideas on this?
All theory's are welcome on this.....

[qvision]

@stevie1001

The speedup-under-load effect discussed at :

http://www.totallyamped.net/adams/index.html

had a core diameter which equalled the magnet diameter.

That article discusses the Adams device.

But Adams stated that the face area of the magnet must be twice the face area of the core, so, in the case of a circular core and a circular magnet, the magnet face must be twice the diameter of the core face.

I'm not sure what Muller's ratio was, but i assume you are already aware of the details of Romero's Muller replication in this handy thread, the first post of Romero's in this thread has a link to a PDF with all of the necessary details :

Muller Dynamo

Hope this helps,

Gary.

[Lidmotor]

Turnigy RC motor

@ Toranarod
I remember when Romero posted that info on the Turnigy motor. Not too many people were interested. Everyone just wanted to replicate his Muller.

Lidmotor

[quantumuppercut]

Have you ever used an out runner Motor. They are a pulse motor but have no hall sensor or reed switch. they sink right up to the pulse frequency. I am currently installing one in the top of my Muller motor as a drive motor. they get up to 7000 RPM. they use a processor based speed controller. Do any of you remember RomeroUK saying theses OUT RUNNERs are almost OU straight out the box? He said He re wired ONE Who Remembers that?

It may be possible that the speed is being control by the L and C of the circuit itself. Anyone notice the first vid he use only 2 pins on the coils while the assembly vid shows 3 pins being connected. On the 2nd vid with the battery, it stop when the battery fall off while the first vid the capacitor didn't discharge when he charge up. So the set up are different. I've come up with my own schematics for the two vids but I don't see how it works for the first vid unless the diodes can't handle that speed.

ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting

PS- the little motor looks tough lol

[elias]

MU Metal Core or Iron core ?

The MU metal is very defined set of specs.
The data you are requesting?
All Specification.? I have already posted some of this information.
What are the specs you are looking for specifically.

Hi

I mean did you use your forest for the trees method or not? As I recall your magnet diamaters were about 10mm and the core was 20x20mm, what about the spacing between the core and the magnet, also the wire gauge and the number of turns, and also your coil length?

Thanks!

[elias]

Yes you missed something, Romero had 2 wires going down the table. I asked him several times about it but no answer. You can read all about it on his forum at UnderService.Org - Index

Regards

I have not noticed the wires, maybe ... maybe Romero was hoaxing, but was Muller hoaxing too?
I believe that there are some serious anomalies, that need to be resolved.

[toranarod]

out runner

@ Toranarod
I remember when Romero posted that info on the Turnigy motor. Not too many people were interested. Everyone just wanted to replicate his Muller.

Lidmotor

Hello to all
mondrasek
qvision
gyula
stevie1001
elias
Lidmotor
Quantumuppercut

Yes Lidmotor I thought the same thing. It was totally ignored. I was also not interested at the time but it burnt away in the back of my mind..
I haven’t tried rewiring one of them yet as a generator I want to stay on the current line of work there will always be time for the next project. In the photo below I have a little out runner now powering my Muller. It can spin up to 6000 RPM no trouble.

Thanks mondrasek, gyula for finding the post I was worried I imagined it or got it confused with a YouTube Video. When Romero posted that about the out runners I had often wondered why they were not of more interest to the OU community. After all they where pulse motors that are set up like stepper motor. All ready to go even the speed controllers where very cheap and very strong. I am thinking of setting one up to recover the EMF. If they are not already doing that? Using one as a drive motor means no Back EMF recovery but what you get is very HI speed and low voltage and hi current. This is just what we need for the recovery of a Lenz less generator.

Before I was running 50 volts at 1.2 amps to get 4000 RPM, that’s a lot of Watts. Right?

With the Out runner I am at 7.8 volts at 1.5 Amp to get 6000 RPM. Ok no recovery but with the experiment criteria. Watt one would you prefer LOL . My generator coils
Where able to make 400m Amps at 7 volts after the DC to DC converter, that’s off two coils. We have 9 coils with no Lenz drag we hope.

At 11 volts the Muller was up to 7500 RPM when it started spitting magnets off in all directions. The little hall magnets around the edges came flying off. No one hurt very lucky. Using the out runner we will not need hall sensors. Just a PWM servo controller
At the moment I am using one of my Futaba RC systems. This is funny a radio controlled Muller motor. I will re program one of my micro controllers for this job in the next day or so.

Remember one other thing Romero was always insisting on. Don’t worry about the drive motor as long as it’s fairly efficient. The secret is in the generator coils.
It’s very interesting as we move more and more down the road to the search for OU we seem to be wishing we had listened to Romero more in the beginning.





The coils and magnets in the Photo are being replaced with my large iron core lamination coils and the magnets are being changed to the 10 X 10 mill neos

[quantumuppercut]

Be careful about those flying magnets man. We don't want anything happen to MVPs. lol I know people think Tesla is cool for running his motors so fast it fly apart... but I just think he turn it on and find a place for cover. lol

[toranarod]

Hi

I mean did you use your forest for the trees method or not? As I recall your magnet diamaters were about 10mm and the core was 20x20mm, what about the spacing between the core and the magnet, also the wire gauge and the number of turns, and also your coil length?

Thanks!

with the Mu metal I have tested both. with the magnets and with out the magnets. works just as well with out the magnets just the voltage is lower.

the Mu core is 14mm x 14 mm and the magnets are 10mm and the space is as close as you can get without the magnets ether side of the core and 5 mm gap with the magnets. coils specs are 5.6 mH gauge 18AWG 1.1mm length I think around 24 meters at 280 turns.

[qvision]

Wow, Rod, incredible ! What a huge saving in input watts and a good increase in RPM. And all the drive cicuitry can be dispensed with too !

It makes me wonder why Romero didn't just stick with the motor as driver ?

Do you have a link to the motor you bought please ?


Cheers,

Gary.

[qvision]

double post ...........