Muller generator replication by Romerouk

[stevie1001]

As promised, i would publish my findings, so here it is.
I havent read anything about this effect.
It looks on my scope pretty clear that the fight i have with my BEMF situation is not only because of the BEMF......
The off duty part on my scope was showing lots of waves and the coin didnt fall at first.
The pulse duration of my driving coils is pretty short. Not more then 25%.
The other part of the cycle seems to be taken by first the BEMF pulse and after that is acts as a generator coil!
When i was redirecting the BEMF, i was also using the generated power.
In the same process, i am generating LENZ!
With the Lenz effect in the second part of the pulse, the rotor slows down.
Then the pulse has to pull more on the rotor to keep it on speed and will pull more current!

You must have the same issues.......

[mariuscivic]

If you haven't, try connecting the oppositely wound wires in series. In other words connect the start end of each wire (ie the ends on the inside of the coil) together and then the end side of each wire to the circuit (the ends on the outside of the coil). This would then be like you wound one layer clockwise and the other CCW, the third CW, the fourth CCW, etc. with the same wire. In that case the inductance should nullify each other. I suspect that while you wouldn't get any inductance, you also wouldn't get any current in the wires (or a very high voltage current). If you do get current without inductance... WAHOOOO!! It should be easy to build the circuit if you already have the coil. The results would be interesting.

Edit,
I think I said that wrong. By connecting two oppositely wound wires like that wouldn't you actually be making the electricity travel in one direction, but just as if you wound the wire in to the core and then in the same direction wound it out towards the outside (as if you weaved the layers together)? To get the inductance cancellation you would need to connect two parallel wound wires in the manner I have described.

Bifilar coil - eNotes.com Reference
So, I have a question for you guys that have tested bifilar coils, do you get any current out of a low inductance bifilar wound generator coil? It would seem to me that you wouldn't...?

As i said i have played withis type of coil and made very conection possible. Also i played with diods, leds, capacitors and other things. I could't find any magic there.If someone has such a coil please experiment; maybe you will find something that i missed

[toranarod]

more Muller Work

If the only way to get acceleration under load is to short the coils completely then how do we get a voltage potential from the system and not incur Lenz drag?

This is one way that worked today on my Muller motor. I had test only one coil and when it was shorted it would increase the speed as we have expected to see.

If I switched the coil to dead short at the Peak of the wave form as you see in the photo below it was possible to collect the back EMF from the coil when the field expanded. Filling the capacitor to a higher voltage than the coils were generating.

All the time utilizing the effect of no Lenz drag. If we do this for all 18 coils it would be a large amount of energy, greater than input required driving it.

[toranarod]

As promised, i would publish my findings, so here it is.
I havent read anything about this effect.
It looks on my scope pretty clear that the fight i have with my BEMF situation is not only because of the BEMF......
The off duty part on my scope was showing lots of waves and the coin didnt fall at first.
The pulse duration of my driving coils is pretty short. Not more then 25%.
The other part of the cycle seems to be taken by first the BEMF pulse and after that is acts as a generator coil!
When i was redirecting the BEMF, i was also using the generated power.
In the same process, i am generating LENZ!
With the Lenz effect in the second part of the pulse, the rotor slows down.
Then the pulse has to pull more on the rotor to keep it on speed and will pull more current!

You must have the same issues.......

Have we just done the same experiment?
What is your coil Core?
I tried this with 3 different types of cores and 4 different types of coils

[gyula]

If the only way to get acceleration under load is to short the coils completely then how do we get a voltage potential from the system and not incur Lenz drag?
...

Hi Rod,

I would suggest using a current transformer: take a toroidal core (OD=1-2cm, with some hundred permeability, could be a normal ferrite toroid) and hook through one turn in it from a 10-15cm long piece of insulated wire, wire OD=0.5-0.8mm, this would be the short connected directly to your gen coil outputs. And wind 5 to 15 turns of insulated wire onto this same toroid core, wire OD could be the same), this would be your power output, terminate this output with either a resistor of 10-20 Ohm or an incandescent bulb of some watts rated at 6V or so or with a full wave bridge and a puffer capacitor plus a resistive load.

Alternatively, if you happen to have a 30-40W AC mains transformer with a low voltage secondary like 1 - 3V output, (such low voltage secondaries have low enough AC impedance to behave like a short) then you could use this secondary for the short and load this AC transformer original primary coil with a resistive load, this would be the output.

The combination of the gen coil shorting and the current transformer may also be practical: hook the current transformer's one turn input in series with your switching MOSFET's drain so that the diode bridge gets shorted via the series combination of the the 1 turn coil and the MOSFET.

All the time utilizing the effect of no Lenz drag. If we do this for all 18 coils it would be a large amount of energy, greater than input required driving it.

I wonder, how many gen coils have you already positioned to see that they cause no Lenz drag. Also, you may have figured that 18 gen coil outputs are needed to break even in your particular setup?

Thanks for the results.

Gyula

[stevie1001]

Have we just done the same experiment?
What is your coil Core?
I tried this with 3 different types of cores and 4 different types of coils

We are both in the mullermotor experiments...
However, you are working on the generator coils and i am still fighting with my drivercoils......
I am on ferryte rods for the moment.

[kajunkreations]

muller motor

Hey guys, this will be my first post, although I have been monitoring it from the beginning. I have also spent countless hours researching on the internet and by my own experimentation. My machine is a Romero replication and just like all of you Lenz's law is the devil that haunts me.
After alot of internet research I am now seeing that Romero's replication shares a few like qualities of the Muller Motor but , its really not like it at all.
The only major similarity is the odd/even coil and magnet configuration and even that is not the same, the Muller motor uses one more magnet than the number of coils, 16 magnets and 15 coils. The orientation of the magnets is also different, the Muller motor is NSNSNSNS, it only fires on every second magnet.
The coils are completely different also, as you all know. The wire is way bigger and way less of it, the core is of great magnitude and the way its wound is a major key in defeating the lenz effect.
continue...

[kajunkreations]

muller motor

The drive system is very complicated, they are processing the signals. The transistor are hexfets that can handle large amounts of currents. Ive read that there are 5 coils sets used to drive it and 10 sets for generation ,and I've read that all the coils are used for drive and generation. In one video it is stated that there are as many as 240 pulses/ switches in one revolution.
Now with all that being said, I think I will be moving more in the direction of the real Muller design.

[elias]

@Rod

As I recall you were able to achieve acceleration even when your coils were under load at about 1.7 watts. Am I correct? This is huge. I prefer this type over coil shorting method, as it requires more components and more components means less reliability and less MTBF. My dream is to prepare a simple step by step plan for everyone with simple material, so that everyone can build one for their home.

Elias

[kajunkreations]

My build

I just wanted to show you guys my build so that you guys can see what this forum has inspired me to do for the last 3 months. Its a 9" rotor with 8 magnets 1" x3/4". Its the typical Romero setup. I experiment quite often and have been a few different setups and the devil finds me in everyone. I really think between coil shorting and other timed/pulsed events that lenz can be overcome. I dont have a great deal of experience with electronic circuits but I am learning fast thanks to you guys.

[toranarod]

Hey guys, this will be my first post, although I have been monitoring it from the beginning. I have also spent countless hours researching on the internet and by my own experimentation. My machine is a Romero replication and just like all of you Lenz's law is the devil that haunts me.
After alot of internet research I am now seeing that Romero's replication shares a few like qualities of the Muller Motor but , its really not like it at all.
The only major similarity is the odd/even coil and magnet configuration and even that is not the same, the Muller motor uses one more magnet than the number of coils, 16 magnets and 15 coils. The orientation of the magnets is also different, the Muller motor is NSNSNSNS, it only fires on every second magnet.
The coils are completely different also, as you all know. The wire is way bigger and way less of it, the core is of great magnitude and the way its wound is a major key in defeating the lenz effect.
continue...

You make a good point?
I have often wondered why it is called a Muller replica at all. it was really a Romero motor. we are stuck with it now

[toranarod]

I just wanted to show you guys my build so that you guys can see what this forum has inspired me to do for the last 3 months. Its a 9" rotor with 8 magnets 1" x3/4". Its the typical Romero setup. I experiment quite often and have been a few different setups and the devil finds me in everyone. I really think between coil shorting and other timed/pulsed events that lenz can be overcome. I dont have a great deal of experience with electronic circuits but I am learning fast thanks to you guys.

WOW what a build
sorry about your car in the back ground didn't want you to strip it for parts for the Muller motor. I think the monster Taco looks better on the Muller.

[toranarod]

@Rod

As I recall you were able to achieve acceleration even when your coils were under load at about 1.7 watts. Am I correct? This is huge. I prefer this type over coil shorting method, as it requires more components and more components means less reliability and less MTBF. My dream is to prepare a simple step by step plan for everyone with simple material, so that everyone can build one for their home.

Elias

you are right. Just one interesting point the Muller configuration works very differently to the standard Bedini rotor setup. Even if the magnets and coils are the same it behave completely different. At the moment I cannot account for this.



Bedini rotor setup



Muller configuration

[elias]

Thanks Rod for mentioning this! I was figuring out why I couldn't get your results, built about 4 different coils, but no avail.

I suspect that the propulsive force from the Lenz delay is mostly outward, so that it shows up on your Adams/Bedini Style rotor much easily. Also note that magnetic field is much stronger perpendicularly than horizontally.

Will try a Bedini style setup this week!

[elias]

I just wanted to show you guys my build so that you guys can see what this forum has inspired me to do for the last 3 months. Its a 9" rotor with 8 magnets 1" x3/4". Its the typical Romero setup. I experiment quite often and have been a few different setups and the devil finds me in everyone. I really think between coil shorting and other timed/pulsed events that lenz can be overcome. I dont have a great deal of experience with electronic circuits but I am learning fast thanks to you guys.

You work is such an inspiration too.