Muller generator replication by Romerouk

[Shadesz]

ok guys, Ive just removed the cores from the molds and the came out pretty good as far as shape and no trapped air. But the permeability seems very low. Im pretty sure I followed Peters instructions very carefully. The magnet is attracted to the core pretty good, but I cannot pick up a washer on the opposite end of the core.
Opinions please, should i just try again or wind one and see?

hmmm, you are using 1 inch neo magnets right?

I would almost want to try again. If teh core doesn't pull the field, your coil farther away from the magnet wont pick it up.

If you do it again I would suggest something.
Buy some magnesium ribbon, burn it. Separate the ashes form the white magnesium oxide and chop the magnesium oxide into a fine power. Apply the release agent onto your mold and dust (perhaps with an art paint brush) the release agent with it. (I saw this on a core recipe once. Haven't done it yet though.) Magnesium is used in some superconductors.

You can also mix in some low % of copper oxide and as much Nickel Oxide as you can afford. Notice MuMetal is 75% Nickel.

How fine was your magnetite? Screened to what size?
I have a very strong feeling that it must be very fine to work properly. Peter said the particles have to align and touch end to end. If the particle size is too large, they will not be able to turn as easily during curing.

Lastly, I read on their website that bill used a 70 to 30 rate of magnetite to resin (It didn't say if that was by weight or volume). What would you say your ratio was? I wonder if you do not use enough resin again, the particles can't move freely enough to line up and touch end to end.

[kajunkreations]

conical coil

ok, so i wound the coil anyway and the results are not good. the dc voltage unloaded was 1.6 volts. Im going to drill a hole through the core and insert a piece of iron and see if the helps the voltage. I dont think the core is good.

[toranarod]

I like this coil arrangement.

do you have any more specification on this idea. I have a few old TV EHT Ferris former's that would do for this. But I am not in favor of ferrite.

[kajunkreations]

@ shadez..

yes, 1" neos and 1" cores, the mix was 70/30, like a paste,very difficult to fill the mold. the mesh is 350, very fine. It is possible that it was too thick, i was thinking that as i made them. I want to get a few opinions and try again.

[toranarod]

@ shadez..

yes, 1" neos and 1" cores, the mix was 70/30, like a paste,very difficult to fill the mold. the mesh is 350, very fine. It is possible that it was too thick, i was thinking that as i made them. I want to get a few opinions and try again.

have you put the core in the Motor?
looks impressive.

[kajunkreations]

have you put the core in the Motor?
looks impressive.

Are you asking if I have used it as a drive coil? If so, then no i have not, just held to the rotor of my romero build . I dont have mosfets that can handle that kind of current yet.

[Farmhand]

I like this coil arrangement.

do you have any more specification on this idea. I have a few old TV EHT Ferris former's that would do for this. But I am not in favor of ferrite.

Microwave oven fan that I have could be easily cut to make that I think.
They even have a fine wire coil on them but maybe no good. The fan motor looks a bit Tesla-ish. Oh it's laminated steel I think.

I'll post a picture as soon as possible.

Edit: this is the Fan motor it's fairly big. The coil is 30mm long and it's 60 mm to the topside of the rotor/core. There's about 12.5 mm's of lamination thickness.



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Cheers

[elias]

Hi Rod!

Glad to see you again. Transformer cores come with an I and a U, you can use the U part for this type of coil. But I think that the most valuable effect that we have seen is the one with your Adams type generator, we need to replicate this.

This is how I think it might have worked: Magnetic fields repel much strongly perpendicularly. You can try pulling two attached magnets apart to see what I mean, but if you slide them over they are much easily taken apart. In the Adams type generator the outward force is also utilized to some degree, adding to the overall efficiency.

BTW: Did you mention deforming the core head, so that this effect manifests much better? I did not understand this part.

Elias

I like this coil arrangement.

do you have any more specification on this idea. I have a few old TV EHT Ferris former's that would do for this. But I am not in favor of ferrite.

[toranarod]

Microwave oven fan that I have could be easily cut to make that I think.
They even have a fine wire coil on them but maybe no good. The fan motor looks a bit Tesla-ish. Oh it's laminated steel I think.

I'll post a picture as soon as possible.

Edit: this is the Fan motor it's fairly big. The coil is 30mm long and it's 60 mm to the topside of the rotor/core. There's about 12.5 mm's of lamination thickness.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us



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Cheers

Ok. I am going straight out side to my Micro wave oven. I had never thought the fan was going to be useful. I kept it for the diodes and Magnetron.

Somtimes I just dont have an imagination. I was repering the dishwasher the other day and I was replacing the drain pump. Same Motor? Went in the bin.

on my Adams motor I need to install another out runner. they are great for control over a wide range Of RPM.

I turned things around today and went back to smaller magnets that gives you more space between the phases . as in the photo presented by marxist



dead short and open circuit had the same RPM. I was testing the large 50mm coil with the 24mm core same as above. Smaller magnets, 10mm X 10mm

[AetherScientist]

I like this coil arrangement.

do you have any more specification on this idea. I have a few old TV EHT Ferris former's that would do for this. But I am not in favor of ferrite.

It looks like a faraday homopolar generator. It's not the same, but it has some similarity.

[toranarod]

just for curiosity I still have one of theses in the shed.
it's the project I put on the back burner. Maybe time to get it out.



this is the fisher & Paykel washing machine, called the smart drive.

[toranarod]

It looks like a faraday homopolar generator. It's not the same, but it has some similarity.

That gives it a good chance at providing useful Data. Well worth setup.

[Shadesz]

@ shadez..

yes, 1" neos and 1" cores, the mix was 70/30, like a paste,very difficult to fill the mold. the mesh is 350, very fine. It is possible that it was too thick, i was thinking that as i made them. I want to get a few opinions and try again.

Thanks for the information. Good luck

[Shadesz]

Interesting idea. Good job. Let us know how it turns out.

Microwave oven fan that I have could be easily cut to make that I think.
They even have a fine wire coil on them but maybe no good. The fan motor looks a bit Tesla-ish. Oh it's laminated steel I think.

I'll post a picture as soon as possible.

Edit: this is the Fan motor it's fairly big. The coil is 30mm long and it's 60 mm to the topside of the rotor/core. There's about 12.5 mm's of lamination thickness.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Cheers

[Shadesz]

Hi Rod!

Glad to see you again. Transformer cores come with an I and a U, you can use the U part for this type of coil. But I think that the most valuable effect that we have seen is the one with your Adams type generator, we need to replicate this.

This is how I think it might have worked: Magnetic fields repel much strongly perpendicularly. You can try pulling two attached magnets apart to see what I mean, but if you slide them over they are much easily taken apart. In the Adams type generator the outward force is also utilized to some degree, adding to the overall efficiency.

I'm not quit following here. Can you show us a picture of what you mean?

BTW: Did you mention deforming the core head, so that this effect manifests much better? I did not understand this part.

Elias

I mentioned to Rod in an E-mail some ideas I had. I think deforming the core head is a good idea. See this thread I started to try to picture it better.

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...ce-magnet.html

If someone can help us figure out how to calculate the sideways pull force, I will put together a spreadsheet that will let us figure out the best core size, angle, and distance from the rotor magnets, etc.

If you think about it and design it just right, on a generator with say 8 coil (sets) and 9 magnets... 7 cores will be propelling the rotor forward while only one will be "cogging" I wonder if the sideways pull force from the 7 would be enough to overpower the cogging force from the one. If it is, whammo, a rotor drive without any input. (although I doubt it would get to a significant speed)

Hence I want to find the way to calculate pull force. I want to at least minimize the cogging force, or maybe even better.

I have some other out of the box ideas that I think you guys will be interested in. Man my itch to build a unit is growing so badly! lol.