Muller generator replication by Romerouk

[elias]

Slanted core

@Shadez
I am currently making a slanted type core to do some test, What do you think of a pyramid shaped core?

Actually what I am thinking is that electric field like to attract to sharp areas, and they mostly like to converge, but what about magnetiic fields? If this is true then we mught be able to concentrate the magnetic field on the top point of the pyramid shaped core so that it affects the rotor minmaly.

What do you think, of course this needs to be tested.

[Shadesz]

@Shadez
I am currently making a slanted type core to do some test, What do you think of a pyramid shaped core?

Actually what I am thinking is that electric field like to attract to sharp areas, and they mostly like to converge, but what about magnetiic fields? If this is true then we mught be able to concentrate the magnetic field on the top point of the pyramid shaped core so that it affects the rotor minmaly.

What do you think, of course this needs to be tested.

Interesting idea. Magnetic field concentration points may be something to consider.

Personally I think it might have something to do about the unbalance of magnetic pull at any given instant. Perhaps this combined with point concentration?

It is hard to explain my 'unbalance' understanding. I have some data charts that will help. I have to go till my front yard so I can plant a lawn before it gets too cold, but when I am done I will post the chart and explanation.

Keep us posted on the new test!

[wings]

Interesting. I still don't get why the field would be different with a rectangular magnet? I have tried to find models out there to compare the two but no luck.

same question here

http://www.thebackshed.com/forum/upl..._and_ROUND.JPG

see what is done on standard motor ... or generator

powercroco 7N8P

[kajunkreations]

hey guys, just an update here. As you know I have been working on some magnetite cores and I havnt had any real luck. It seems magnetite by itself is just not permeable enough. I have made several different types and used different processes. By adding steel bb's to the mix made it much better but there was fast heat build up. I am still doing some research and I will continue to do so.

I will be ordering some other powders to try, things like iron, nickle and a few others. I am also think about ferrofluid any thoughts on that?

@ toranado, If you are going to cast your cores with polyester resin make sure you put 3X the hardener (mekp) to the mix. The filler powder (magnetite) greatly reduceses the mass of the resin, therefore the cure is increased.

[quantumuppercut]

Just a question. What is the advantage of using a permanent magnet over using an electromagnet?

I see permanent magnets used on all these rotors, but so far have not seen any electromagnets used on the rotors.

It seems that the stationary generator coil would not know or care if the rotor magnet was a permanent magnet or an electromagnet.

Has this been tried before and did not work, so permanent magnets are now used?
Just wondering.

I've seen 2 Megawatts generator use electromagnets. I think on big industrial size electromagnets are better. They do use up DC current vs a permanent magnets.

[MonsieurM]

I would just like to share with you an observation i made recently and it truly make sense :

more on this here, hope this helps : http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...netism-20.html

[toranarod]

Just a question. What is the advantage of using a permanent magnet over using an electromagnet?

I see permanent magnets used on all these rotors, but so far have not seen any electromagnets used on the rotors.

It seems that the stationary generator coil would not know or care if the rotor magnet was a permanent magnet or an electromagnet.

Has this been tried before and did not work, so permanent magnets are now used?
Just wondering.

I have never tried it.
The only thing that really suggests that is not a good idea is we are trying to create a OU device. So we are trying to take advantage of the free energy supplied by the magnets. So half the generator is already powered.
it would mean powering two coils not just one.
it would also complicit the design with brushes or slip rings this would also mean friction.

[toranarod]

hey guys, just an update here. As you know I have been working on some magnetite cores and I havnt had any real luck. It seems magnetite by itself is just not permeable enough. I have made several different types and used different processes. By adding steel bb's to the mix made it much better but there was fast heat build up. I am still doing some research and I will continue to do so.

I will be ordering some other powders to try, things like iron, nickle and a few others. I am also think about ferrofluid any thoughts on that?

@ toranado, If you are going to cast your cores with polyester resin make sure you put 3X the hardener (mekp) to the mix. The filler powder (magnetite) greatly reduceses the mass of the resin, therefore the cure is increased.

thank you for the information really appreciated

[Steve220]

I have never tried it.
The only thing that really suggests that is not a good idea is we are trying to create a OU device. So we are trying to take advantage of the free energy supplied by the magnets. So half the generator is already powered.
it would mean powering two coils not just one.
it would also complicit the design with brushes or slip rings this would also mean friction.

Ok, I see what you are saying that not free energy from the permanent magnets, but so that the rotor magnets do not need to be powered with an electric current.

Since the permanent magnets are always “on”, this eliminates the need for slip rings and brushes.

Makes sense to me. Thanks.

[Shadesz]

I wont have time to explain the charts today sorry. So I'll post them within the next couple days.

[electr0n]

Rotor Electromagnets

@ steve220, i like this idea, the rotor wires could be routed through a hollow shaft easily, negating the need for any brush type setup.
As for the power needed to drive the extra electromagnet(s), a controlled pulse delivery may yield some undiscovered territory
I bought a vertical axis wind turbine awhile back and decided to pull the generator apart, the top and bottom stator had hardrive shaped magnets. 6 coils were molded with resin to shape the rotor .. the wires from the rotor coils went through the center motor shaft.
Applying steve220`s electromagnet rotor may make the "speed up under load" easier to work with...dunno.

[Steve220]

@ steve220, i like this idea, the rotor wires could be routed through a hollow shaft easily, negating the need for any brush type setup.
As for the power needed to drive the extra electromagnet(s), a controlled pulse delivery may yield some undiscovered territory
I bought a vertical axis wind turbine awhile back and decided to pull the generator apart, the top and bottom stator had hardrive shaped magnets. 6 coils were molded with resin to shape the rotor .. the wires from the rotor coils went through the center motor shaft.
Applying steve220`s electromagnet rotor may make the "speed up under load" easier to work with...dunno.

Well, I was just thinking that if the rotor magnets were electromagnets instead of permanent magnets, that they could be selectively turned off and on when needed.

So if when the electromagnet on the rotor is approaching the stationary generator magnet, it is turned on. At the center of the generator magnet core, the electromagnet could be turned off, eliminating the magnetic drag of the rotor magnet.

Through selective timing of the electromagnet rotor magnets, it would seem that most or all of the drag could be reduced for more power output of the generator. The small amount of current required to operate the rotor magnets, it seems would be insignificant in comparison to the overall increase in generator output.

This is not Lenz cancellation of a magnetic field, but just no Lenz at all because there is no magnetic field after the rotor magnet passes the center of the stationary generator coil core.

Also the current required to operate the electromagnetic magnets on the rotor are only working half the time, so a further reduction in current to operate the coils is obtained.

[toranarod]

Well, I was just thinking that if the rotor magnets were electromagnets instead of permanent magnets, that they could be selectively turned off and on when needed.

So if when the electromagnet on the rotor is approaching the stationary generator magnet, it is turned on. At the center of the generator magnet core, the electromagnet could be turned off, eliminating the magnetic drag of the rotor magnet.

Through selective timing of the electromagnet rotor magnets, it would seem that most or all of the drag could be reduced for more power output of the generator. The small amount of current required to operate the rotor magnets, it seems would be insignificant in comparison to the overall increase in generator output.

This is not Lenz cancellation of a magnetic field, but just no Lenz at all because there is no magnetic field after the rotor magnet passes the center of the stationary generator coil core.

Also the current required to operate the electromagnetic magnets on the rotor are only working half the time, so a further reduction in current to operate the coils is obtained.

Its an interesting idea and I would love to give it a try.
I need to say on the job at hand. any body else want to have a go.

Don't forget a car alternator works like this. I did make a pulse motor from a car alternator a few years ago. and it was all electric magnets.
no fixed magnets at all .
At the time I couldn't see enough efficiency. But I have learnt a lot since then. I did a video. I will see if it still around.
Bedini pulse Motor from a car alternator - YouTube
Oh i was new to this then Sorry about the bad Video but you get the Idea.
cheers

[Steve220]

Its an interesting idea and I would love to give it a try.
I need to say on the job at hand. any body else want to have a go.

Don't forget a car alternator works like this. I did make a pulse motor from a car alternator a few years ago. and it was all electric magnets.
no fixed magnets at all .
At the time I couldn't see enough efficiency. But I have learnt a lot since then. I did a video. I will see if it still around.
Bedini pulse Motor from a car alternator - YouTube
Oh i was new to this then Sorry about the bad Video but you get the Idea.
cheers

I have been watching this thread for four months of trying to cancel Lenz and I keep thinking, why not just turn off the rotor magnets?

Just a thought

Steve

[toranarod]

I have been watching this thread for four months of trying to cancel Lenz and I keep thinking, why not just turn off the rotor magnets?

Just a thought

Steve

yes I see your point of view. things seem to work like this as I have found.
If you turn of the magnets field to avoid Lenz drag you are at the same time not producing power. What we need in this case is the I want my cake and eat it to This is where the speed under load is taking us.
always looking for information to the contrary.


My new motor bent the brackets holding the magnet in place today. so its back to the drawing board. I Was a few thousand RPM away from my target.
so I really need to fix the design.