Muller generator replication by Romerouk

[quantumuppercut]

@all,

Thanks for the replies. I had a feeling that I was just catching up to what you guys already knew. haha!

Maybe we wont be able to beat lenz completely as this would require a complete 180* shift, and like others said, wouldn't this cause the generator to produce no output? (Perhaps this is what is happening when Romero talks about the voltage approaching zero as you pass through the rpm resonance points)

Man I'm so glad I found this forum and decided to go into EE. It just keep getting more interesting. Thanks guys.



@Rod,

I think I get what you are talking about with your coil short timing. Question, will that controller kit I'm getting from you allow me to do this? It seems like it would?

lol Shadez What did we know? The old people probably have a bigger picture, but they can't go any further than that. We need young fresh ideas to lead the way. Keep it coming. Learn from the teachers, but don't forget to surpass them one day. That's what they all want for their students.

[qvision]

I think that would be the problem if this system proves to be workable, variability of load affecting variables of the generator.

[Shadesz]

I think that would be the problem if this system proves to be workable, variability of load affecting variables of the generator.

Yes. It would have to be a constant output, which wouldn't matter if we have it tied into a grid system through an inverter, or used it to charge a battery bank.

Or I guess we could use a switch that monitors the load requirements and controls the drive accordingly (within the physical limits of the generator)...

[Shadesz]

lol Shadez What did we know? The old people probably have a bigger picture, but they can't go any further than that. We need young fresh ideas to lead the way. Keep it coming. Learn from the teachers, but don't forget to surpass them one day. That's what they all want for their students.

My family has always considered me 'off the wall'. I guess that's a good thing when you are trying to redefine the laws of physics.

It seems most people understood the importance of phase shifting already.

Right now the only way I can see us doing it is using that time equation and using a core material with a large(fet) hysteresis loop and pull the actual coil away from the major influence of the rotor magnets. I may post a pic of this theory/idea later. Right now I have to study for a humanites test... memorizing dates and names...

[Shadesz]

there are also construction issues, i am having major difficulty keeping the magnets in place at over 3000 RPM. I lost another one today came off at 140 Kmh. you can see why the Muller design is so popular, Magnet fixing is much more simplistic.

Yes this is indeed a concern. Right now the only solution i see is increasing the rotor diameter while keep the magnet spacing the same by adding more magnets. This will allow the same magnet speed and frequency at a lower RPM. This will also cause the magnet path to be more linear and thus less chance of throwing magnets at such dangerous speeds.

If only we had the $$$

[Bill H]

@all,

Thanks for the replies. I had a feeling that I was just catching up to what you guys already knew. haha!

Maybe we wont be able to beat lenz completely as this would require a complete 180* shift, and like others said, wouldn't this cause the generator to produce no output? (Perhaps this is what is happening when Romero talks about the voltage approaching zero as you pass through the rpm resonance points)

Man I'm so glad I found this forum and decided to go into EE. It just keep getting more interesting. Thanks guys.

Excellent work Shadesz, I like the way you think.
I have been following this forum from the start but am not building so have not added much input but these posts have gotten my brain rolling...for good or bad I just thought I might throw a few thoughts out.
The phase shifting thing made me think of a Surfer on top of a wave, there are forces present that will pull him back off of the wave or speed him up down the wave, he plays between these forces.
The top of the wave would be like your 180 phase shift...0 volts. My thought was that perhaps we need a +12 volt reference as well as a -12 volt reference, then would we not have potential with our 0 volts.
Ed Leedskalin said "drop below"?
I have also seen videos where John Bedini has talked about crossing the "0"
If need be you can ignore my lunatic ravings...if it helps at all I am glad to have contributed.
Keep up the good work all.
Bill H.

[elias]

[Shadesz]

Excellent work Shadesz, I like the way you think.
I have been following this forum from the start but am not building so have not added much input but these posts have gotten my brain rolling...for good or bad I just thought I might throw a few thoughts out.
The phase shifting thing made me think of a Surfer on top of a wave, there are forces present that will pull him back off of the wave or speed him up down the wave, he plays between these forces.
The top of the wave would be like your 180 phase shift...0 volts. My thought was that perhaps we need a +12 volt reference as well as a -12 volt reference, then would we not have potential with our 0 volts.
Ed Leedskalin said "drop below"?
I have also seen videos where John Bedini has talked about crossing the "0"
If need be you can ignore my lunatic ravings...if it helps at all I am glad to have contributed.
Keep up the good work all.
Bill H.

Thanks for dropping in! There are all kinds needed in this exploration adventure. Theoretical thinkers, builders, analysts, etc. All input is welcome.

I love the concept. The magnet creates a wave in the coil and if we control where we are on that wave, just like a surfer controls their position, our magnet will ride the coil wave out the rest of the cycle. At least that's what I imagine is happening based on your input. If I am wrong please correct.

[qvision]

This is clear and concise :

RE-partI.mpg - YouTube

[Rubberband]

I'm not that smart, but...I'm trying

So tonight as I am laying in bed I realized something you guys probably already know. But for those who haven't made the connection yet I figured I will post it.

I was laying there trying to go to sleep and it 'clicked'. I finally understand what we are trying to do when we delay lenz and what we need to focus on to do so.

Essentially, when we are trying to delay lenz what are we really trying to do?

Well we know that lenz law says that if we induce a current in a coil of wire, the coil of wire will create a magnetic field that is opposite our initial force. So what does that mean? That means this...

Say you have a south face side of a magnet approaching and leaving a coil as Rod does in his setup. This motion will create two currents in the coil wire. One current as it approaches the coil and another current as it retreats from the coil. (This is basic stuff)

Now lets take it step deeper...
Remember, our magnet face S is approaching the coil. The current that we produce in the coil is in such a direction that the side of the coil facing the magnet is now also a South pole. These two poles push against each other and what does that cause? Lenz law.

Now we switch direction and your magnet starts to leave the coil. As your magnet leaves the coil it creates a current in the coil wire in the opposite direction. This then creates a North pole on the coil side facing the S face of the magnet. This creates an attraction force and what do we have again? Lenz law.

So now we can see that lenz shows up twice per cycle. Once on approach (as a repulsive force) and once on retreat (as an attractive force)

Ok, still kinda basic level stuff, but maybe that's all we need....

What do we need to do to get Lenz to work with/for us?...

Ideally, if we delay lenz by just over half a cycle we get a driving force. Why? Because when lenz finally creates the S pole on the coil face, the magnet will already be on its way away from the coil, hence we get propulsion. Make sense so far? It does to me. But it gets more exciting!...

Is this possible? YES!

What is this called? Phase shifting!

Does phase shifting happen? YES!

Where? In transformers.

How do pulse generators relate to Transformers? They ARE transformers! The primary coil isn't a coil though, it's your rotor magnet. The secondary coil is a coil; you know it as your generator coil. Again, the primary coil is your rotor magnet, the secondary coil is your generator coil.

Now when we phase shift our 'transformers' just right, that phase shift can potentially DRIVE our transformers!

Here, check out this quick video to get the image in your head before you read on...
Phase shift differences under variable loads. - YouTube

Did the video make sense? Did you catch the cool part at the end? It explains why we are seeing acceleration with coil shorting! From 1:15 he explains...

"Depending on the size of load will determine how big of a phase shift there is. I am going to hook it up to a load with even less resistance here. ...??... Ok, I hooked it up to an even bigger load this time. So [now] you can see how the phase shift is even more pronounced when you have a bigger load on the secondary side of the transformer. [which in are case means the generator coil]"

This not only tells us that we can achieve a lenz driven dynamo (or at least lenz assisted), it tells us that we can control the speed of it to a certain extent!

Freaking cool if you ask me! Note: this also may explain those generators that were seeing more acceleration under a medium load than a full short. Their particular phase shift timing required a resistance that was a little higher than a shorted coil. Perhaps their shorted coil produced a phase shift that was too pronounced, and a less dramatic phase shift is what their design needed? More testing needed, but I feel this concept can help us focus on the right question...

How can we maximize and/or gain better control of phase shifting?

I haven't studied phase shifting yet so I have some basic questions. Do any applications encourage phase shifting? If so, what are they? How do they do it? How can we replicate the effect? Personally I think these questions are going to be the key to these generators going OU.

We already know one way, and that is to decrease the cycle time by increasing the RPM. IMO this would also explain why Romero says this...



The multiple resonance points may be explained by a static phase delay in our core/coil coming in and out of optimum phase shifts due to our changing the cycle time (RPM). Pretty cool! Although if this is the case, I don't see him getting a constant RPM with varying loads.

So the question remains... What other ways can we maximize and/or control phase shifting? What ways can we do it that won't require us to change the RPM?

Man I wont be able to sleep for a while now! lol

Disclaimer: The above principles and concepts are released open source to the world free of charge by David Sphar on Sept 19, 2011. Please make a copy of this post as a backup record of this release. (Just in case the idea actually proves to work and the $$ folks try to steal it)

Could something built like this help?

[Shadesz]

Could something built like this help?

The picture is kind of small on my computer. Could you explain it?

[MonsieurM]

I'd like to share with you an observation i made while searching the geometric figure called the flower of life...here is a version of it...and it is Fractal....

from:http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...netism-18.html





search this figure, it will give you the right ratios to build the correct coil...It is also called the Nested Circles

This is what you guys are trying to do; i posted it in another thread but it just as relevant here, I know Rod loves hiding the tree in the forest (i think )

Sometimes it does not hurt to hear what Nikola Tesla had to say:

Nature may reach the same result in many ways. Like a wave in the physical world, in the infinite ocean of the medium which pervades all, so in the world of organisms, in life, an impulse started proceeds onward, at times, may be, with the speed of light, at times, again, so slowly that for ages and ages it seems to stay, passing through processes of a complexity inconceivable to men, but in all its forms, in all its stages, its energy ever and ever integrally present. A single ray of light from a distant star falling upon the eye of a tyrant in bygone times may have altered the course of his life, may have changed the destiny of nations, may have transformed the surface of the globe, so intricate, so inconceivably complex are the processes in Nature. In no way can we get such an overwhelming idea of the grandeur of Nature than when we consider, that in accordance with the law of the conservation of energy, throughout the Infinite, the forces are in a perfect balance, and hence the energy of a single thought may determine the motion of a universe.
"On Light And Other High Frequency Phenomena" A lecture delivered before the Franklin Institute, Philadelphia (24 February 1893)

Seeing the forest through the trees

Imagine you are walking through a forest. All around you are trees of different species, age, size and height. It looks pretty random, right? Wrong.

In research funded by the National Science Foundation, Brian Enquist of the department of ecology and evolutionary biology at the University of Arizona and his team have discovered a secret in the trees: Hidden among and within the architecture of the branches are fundamental rules that link the size, shape, age and in fact everything about a single tree to all the trees in a forest.

This rule or code reoccurs as the tree grows, creating a fractal – a repeating pattern – like a spiral of daughter branches emanating from the mother branch or tree trunk.

COHERENCE AT ANY LEVEL IS COHERENCE AT ALL LEVELS.
An orderly arrangement between wave lengths establishes a connection between frequencies and fields. But for this connection to last, it must resonate to all frequencies and fields. This can only be accomplished through the resonate structure of golden mean pathways. This harmonic cascade of inter-connected-ness is the structure of our hologramic universe

Check Tesla's Antenna 's Coherence when he describes it

and this is what Tesla Understood: and Z has been trying to show you (i got this on a research about water but applies here as well )

Within a coherent system, the range of the coherence (coherence length) becomes the constant quantity instead of the velocity. This makes frequency proportional to velocity apparently without restriction, so long as one remains within the coherence length. There can be many velocities each with a proportionate frequency; there can be as many frequencies as there are possible velocities. Frequency no longer has an absolute value, the system has become fractal in frequency.

ps: The Universe is all Wave (so emf and "solid" is fractal "self similar" )

enjoy...

[toranarod]

This is what you guys are trying to do; i posted it in another thread but it just as relevant here, I know Rod loves hiding the tree in the forest (i think )

Sometimes it does not hurt to hear what Nikola Tesla had to say:



Seeing the forest through the trees









Check Tesla's Antenna 's Coherence when he describes it

and this is what Tesla Understood: and Z has been trying to show you (i got this on a research about water but applies here as well )



ps: The Universe is all Wave (so emf and "solid" is fractal "self similar" )

enjoy...

Hello MonsieurM
I am still really enjoying your post. keep up the good work.

Just about the forest for the tree thing i brought up a while ago with regards to the magnets ether side of the coil. I notice no one has tried this.
or there was no positive results. I still test it and it is worth looking into because I believe it may be similar to the square magnets over the round idea. Cutting the filed short.

Here is something you may like. I did.


Just play the video the website is not relevant.
TorrentDay - Your Key To The Scene

[qvision]

@ Rod, we need to join the site to view the video

[toranarod]

@ Rod, we need to join the site to view the video

Oh thats Bad. These over zealous Websites
this was more relevant to use than the site its on.

The Greatest Speech Ever Made - YouTube

I cut the words spoken by the narrator in the video.

The video is worth seeing because its Hitler speaking . Charlie Chaplin.

It could be a better world. If we learn to love each other.

Hope... I'm sorry but I don't want to be an Emperor - that's not my business - I don't want to rule or conquer anyone. I should like to help everyone if possible, Christian, Muslim, Jew, Hindu, gentile, black man, white. We all want to help one another, human beings are like that.

We all want to live by each other's happiness, not by each other's misery. We don't want to hate and despise one another. In this world there is room for everyone and the earth is rich and can provide for everyone.

The way of life can be free and beautiful.

But we have lost the way.

Greed has poisoned men's souls - has barricaded the world with hate; has goose-stepped us into misery and bloodshed.

We have developed speed but we have shut ourselves in: machinery that gives abundance has left us in want. Our knowledge has made us cynical, our cleverness hard and unkind. We think too much and feel too little: More than machinery we need humanity; More than cleverness we need kindness and gentleness. Without these qualities, life will be violent and all will be lost.

The aeroplane and the radio have brought us closer together. The very nature of these inventions cries out for the goodness in men, cries out for universal brotherhood for the unity of us all. Even now my voice is reaching millions throughout the world, millions of despairing men, women and little children, victims of a system that makes men torture and imprison innocent people. To those who can hear me I say "Do not despair".

The misery that is now upon us is but the passing of greed, the bitterness of men who fear the way of human progress: the hate of men will pass and dictators die and the power they took from the people, will return to the people and so long as men die [now] liberty will never perish...

Soldiers - don't give yourselves to brutes, men who despise you and enslave you - who regiment your lives, tell you what to do, what to think and what to feel, who drill you, diet you, treat you as cattle, as cannon fodder.

Don't give yourselves to these unnatural men, machine men, with machine minds and machine hearts. You are not machines. You are not cattle. You are men. You have the love of humanity in your hearts. You don't hate - only the unloved hate. Only the unloved and the unnatural. Soldiers - don't fight for slavery, fight for liberty.

In the seventeenth chapter of Saint Luke it is written " the kingdom of God is within man " - not one man, nor a group of men - but in all men - in you, the people.

You the people have the power, the power to create machines, the power to create happiness. You the people have the power to make life free and beautiful, to make this life a wonderful adventure. Then in the name of democracy let's use that power - let us all unite. Let us fight for a new world, a decent world that will give men a chance to work, that will give you the future and old age and security. By the promise of these things, brutes have risen to power, but they lie. They do not fulfil their promise, they never will. Dictators free themselves but they enslave the people. Now let us fight to fulfil that promise. Let us fight to free the world, to do away with national barriers, do away with greed, with hate and intolerance. Let us fight for a world of reason, a world where science and progress will lead to all men's happiness.

Soldiers - in the name of democracy, let us all unite!

Look up! Look up! The clouds are lifting - the sun is breaking through. We are coming out of the darkness into the light. We are coming into a new world. A kind new world where men will rise above their hate and brutality.

The soul of man has been given wings - and at last he is beginning to fly. He is flying into the rainbow - into the light of hope - into the future, that glorious future that belongs to you, to me and to all of us. Look up. Look up."